Very vulnerable and feel afraid. False allegations against me.

[Peanut 21]

@MountainGoat
I believe most people on this forum have been in that pit of doom you're in as well.
We believe you're a decent bloke and a good dad.
Do not let this woman destroy your life.
Go to the hearing a let the process play out.

 

[Ash]

Don't take all this personally - this is a strategy and a psychological attack on you to grind you down. And you know what the saying is - don't let the xxxsards grind you down. Just don't let that happen. Keep focused on your kids who are innocent in all this and need you to stay strong.

It's like being hit by a truck when these things happen but take time to feel the shock and upset and then regroup and keep determined that you will prevail. Please remember that there will be an end to all this.

On a practical note, please get a half hour's free legal advice regarding the NMO hearing. It's important that you attend and are calm and take the right actions, so this doesn't prolong any child arrangements case (and sorry PJ but don't agree with some of your advice!). I'm not an expert on NMO's but my understanding is that an undertaking ends the process and defending an NMO can drag on for a long time and be far too stressful. And also delay any chance of a Child Arrangements order. So please get some legal advice here.

Also - don't feel this is your ex - I know you still have feelings for her. It's her solicitors and she is just doing what they advise her to secure her financial future. An NMO is a commonly used strategy to try and delay child arrangements being formally sorted.

Can I just ask - did something happen recently to trigger this? ie did you go to the house maybe? I don't think you were going to do that anyway.

 

[MountainGoat]

Wow. I don't know what to say. I don;'t even know you guys and the sense of just being there and understanding what we are all going through is so strong. It means a lot. I have just been on the phone for over an hour to the Samiratans. Litterally poured my heart out as Ive been shaking like a leaf all day.

Trying to take a fresh look at things. Can't guarentee anything but am trying.

To answer the past few messages....

She's accusing me of involving the children in adult matters. When the kids havent seen me they naturally ask questions and it is in fact her who has been misleading them. She says I've been spying on her and the children from our home CCTV. She never complained when it was put in over 3 years ago!
She is saying she has been watched, that she is monitored by me. Total rubbish.
only time I've checked the CCTV is when I've known she has not been well and I've made sure my kids were home ok or that she is ok, as a concerned husband.
She says I have stopped her going out. This has never been the case and she can see whoever she wants. The only times I've told her not to go out are when shes not looked well.
She has said I phoned family and friends when I was arrested. Well ofcourse I did as I was concerned with what was going on! I needed help.
She's saying that she would have nowhere else to live, that the house is near the childrens school, etc.
Says she needs a seperate waiting room in court as she's afraid. Afraid of what??!
Her statement is based on allegations that had no further action by the police. She states I no longer live at the house..... Well ofcourse I don't as I feared whatever other allegations she would throw at me!
She accuses me of coming back to the house when I was fully legally allowed to do so. I did about a month ago and thats when she then got me arrested again. Social worker says she is fine to look after the kids but has no clue about what she is like 24/7.
She says I have been hitting the kids when the only record of anyone hitting is in fact of her in the child support documents. So she accuses me but then lets me take them out at the weekend. Go figure that one out!
She says that I did not agree to her child care arrangements yet how could I when nothing was sorted and up in the air and she assumed I would accept hers.
Apparently I have forced her to eat. Total nonsese. There is a video I took of her not well at the kitchen table where I have been trying to get her to have some food, to help her get better. My children were there too and concerned. The video was taken to show doctors.
She says that I shout at the kids. I could easily say she does!
Apparently Im controlling and coercive, and trying to control her.

I spoke to the solicitor who gave me my options...... Basically agree but admit nothing which I believe is the undertaking, or say I will contest it.
This then would start a massive court hearing battle.

Don't know what to do as they say if I contest it and it goes in her favour, that is it. I can then never change it ever.

 

[MountainGoat]

Can I just ask - did something happen recently to trigger this? ie did you go to the house maybe? I don't think you were going to do that anyway.

she got a letter from my solicitor telling her she cant make the rules and needs to work with me. That she cant make decisions about the family or house without agreements. She basically got peed off and did this.
I knew she had done a draft of this a while back so its obviously something her solicitors told her to keep ready to use.
She is threatened that I want the house and kids so is now going all out to stop me.
I'm guessing maybe as the bail conditions are coming up soon too.

 

[Pj66]

Don't take all this personally - this is a strategy and a psychological attack on you to grind you down. And you know what the saying is - don't let the xxxsards grind you down. Just don't let that happen. Keep focused on your kids who are innocent in all this and need you to stay strong.

It's like being hit by a truck when these things happen but take time to feel the shock and upset and then regroup and keep determined that you will prevail. Please remember that there will be an end to all this.

On a practical note, please get a half hour's free legal advice regarding the NMO hearing. It's important that you attend and are calm and take the right actions, so this doesn't prolong any child arrangements case (and sorry PJ but don't agree with some of your advice!). I'm not an expert on NMO's but my understanding is that an undertaking ends the process and defending an NMO can drag on for a long time and be far too stressful. And also delay any chance of a Child Arrangements order. So please get some legal advice here.

Also - don't feel this is your ex - I know you still have feelings for her. It's her solicitors and she is just doing what they advise her to secure her financial future. An NMO is a commonly used strategy to try and delay child arrangements being formally sorted.

Can I just ask - did something happen recently to trigger this? ie did you go to the house maybe? I don't think you were going to do that anyway.

Agree with most of what you say, @MountainGoat should definitely seek legal advise on the best strategy. Not taking undertaking will drag things out however contesting and winning will hold massive weight in his favour. But yes it's all about the best strategy,

 

[mva]

she got a letter from my solicitor telling her she cant make the rules and needs to work with me. That she cant make decisions about the family or house without agreements. She basically got peed off and did this.
I knew she had done a draft of this a while back so its obviously something her solicitors told her to keep ready to use.
She is threatened that I want the house and kids so is now going all out to stop me.
I'm guessing maybe as the bail conditions are coming up soon too.

Well done for speaking to the Samaritan that shows emotional maturity. The shaking as you know is adrenaline overload. Your brain is in flight and fight mode and the more you verbalise what’s happening the calmer you will be. Be careful who you share your feeling with the GP can be helpful but I would just share your feeling anxious and they will probably prescribe anti depressants.

I’m hoping you can get a barrister for the non mol hearing the list of allegations are too overwhelming to be LIP at the moment.

Your ex could well be trying to combine a non- mol fact find with the CAO. This is what my exes team did.

Barrister needed is my advice.

Keep posting if you feel overwhelmed. We’ve all got your back

 

[Peanut 21]

Mountaingoat I'm really pleased you've replied. I was worried about you.

There's 2 points in your post #183 that stood out.
1) At the beginning of my partners agro the exs solicitor accused him of speaking to the children about adult matters, when he didn't and
2) the part about shouting to the kids. Another similar allegation.

 

[MountainGoat]

It is difficult.
Would the outcome whether contested or not only be until the divorce went through and the house sold? I cant remember what the solicitor said about this.
I don't want anything to happen whereby I will never have a say ever again.

She has made a lot of points in her statement but all are so far fetched and I can reply to nearly all of them.

 

[Ash]

If it's contested it could go on for a year or more, and they won't deal with a Child Arrangements application until the NMO situation is finalised. That could mean not seeing your children for a year or more and probably lead to a fact find as well - which wouldn't go well without a Barrister and could get very expensive. Save funding a barrister for a Child Arrangements hearing. Dads who have contested have sometimes regretted it. With an undertaking, you are not admitting to anything, but you are undertaking not to do the things she has raised. And then it goes no further. It's basically a promise to the court that you won't do these things, without admitting or denying that they have happened.

This is just my opinion based on other Dads experiences and feedback.

It seems she has also applied for an occupation order as well? She will probably get that. She had no need to do that because you're not living there. But yes it does seem like retaliation after getting your solicitor's letter.

Best way to see this is as another hoop to jump through. Sooner or later she will run out of steam.

I would still focus on applying for a Child Arrangements order and see all this stuff as just bees buzzing in the background.

 

[MountainGoat]

Thankyou. At the moment I can’t set anything in stone though as there is the vail conditions and I can’t be going via my solicitors each time I need to say something like “make sure they bring their swimming kit” or “can they come half an hour later” or something.
It gets absolutely ridiculous. The whole point I’ve said from the beginning is to communicate. We could sort things out so much better that way.
She is making matters worse!

She’s tried to get these orders and failed and made allegations that have failed. Surely they need to look at that!
If I contest it what happens immediately afterwards?

 

[mva]

I contested the non mol.

They combined the allegations with CAO into a 3 day fact find 4 months later

I only had supervised contact 2 hours from the non mol hearing onwards.

I’m not sure you have put in CAO

 

[MountainGoat]

What exactly is the fact find?

I feel like regardless if I accept it or get an undertaking then if either are broken because child arrangements do change and things are not just straight forward then the book would be thrown at me.

She’s lied so much in all this that I need to give it a shot.
My questions would be:

1. Whatever the outcome how does that affect whether I can sell the house.

2. How long do these orders stand for when we are only just in the early days of the divorce. How does the divorce affect this? Would the divorce sort this out instead?

3. What will happen if I contest it? In the time between then and the next hearing?

4. How do my current bail conditions play into this as right now I can’t go to the property anyway?

5. How can I get in my house to get possessions?

6. How likely are the court to listen to a dad who is trying to protect his children but where my ex has put multiple allegations. Many have been NFA but obviously I’m currently on bail till January on her latest allegation of coercive behaviour and spying on her.

Thankyou.

 

[mva]

What exactly is the fact find?

I feel like regardless if I accept it or get an undertaking then if either are broken because child arrangements do change and things are not just straight forward then the book would be thrown at me.

She’s lied so much in all this that I need to give it a shot.
My questions would be:

1. Whatever the outcome how does that affect whether I can sell the house.

2. How long do these orders stand for when we are only just in the early days of the divorce. How does the divorce affect this? Would the divorce sort this out instead?

3. What will happen if I contest it? In the time between then and the next hearing?

4. How do my current bail conditions play into this as right now I can’t go to the property anyway?

5. How can I get in my house to get possessions?

6. How likely are the court to listen to a dad who is trying to protect his children but where my ex has put multiple allegations. Many have been NFA but obviously I’m currently on bail till January on her latest allegation of coercive behaviour and spying on her.

Thankyou.

A fact find is when your ex makes a list of allegations with evidence if she has any. This is usually done in a list form called a Scott schedule. You then respond to the allegations with evidence. The applicant ( your ex ) and you ( the respondent) put your argument across to a judge via barristers or as LIP.

The judge then makes his judgement based on the probability of whether he thinks the allegation is true. It’s not done to a criminal level ( beyond reasonable doubt) and there is no jury. Therefore even if the police have NFA on an allegation it can still be found against you.

Civil court is not criminal you do not get punished if you loose a fact find. Though it will affect you CAO.

If you have a non- mol against you and you breach it then it becomes a criminal matter.

 

[MagicJ]

What exactly is the fact find?

I feel like regardless if I accept it or get an undertaking then if either are broken because child arrangements do change and things are not just straight forward then the book would be thrown at me.

She’s lied so much in all this that I need to give it a shot.
My questions would be:

1. Whatever the outcome how does that affect whether I can sell the house.

2. How long do these orders stand for when we are only just in the early days of the divorce. How does the divorce affect this? Would the divorce sort this out instead?

3. What will happen if I contest it? In the time between then and the next hearing?

4. How do my current bail conditions play into this as right now I can’t go to the property anyway?

5. How can I get in my house to get possessions?

6. How likely are the court to listen to a dad who is trying to protect his children but where my ex has put multiple allegations. Many have been NFA but obviously I’m currently on bail till January on her latest allegation of coercive behaviour and spying on her.

Thankyou.

Hey @MountainGoat , glad to see you took the time to look after yourself, we all need it.

I'll answer what I can.


1. Whatever the outcome how does that affect whether I can sell the house.

What happens to the house will be dependent on a completely separate court process called an FRO or Financial Remedy Order

2. How long do these orders stand for when we are only just in the early days of the divorce. How does the divorce affect this? Would the divorce sort this out instead?

If you're asking how long the NMO stands, will let others respond.

In terms of Divorce, do you recall one of our earlier conversations about the 3 processes?

It sits seperately to everything and is not affected by anything else, it just runs its course and then you're legally Divorced.

3. What will happen if I contest it? In the time between then and the next hearing?

As mentioned by others, whilst being contested, you can't see the children, contact the STBX or go to the house.

But @Ash rightly suggests you find a few solicitors and get a 30m free with them asking about the NMO and the impact of an undertaking vs contesting it

4. How do my current bail conditions play into this as right now I can’t go to the property anyway?

Will let others respond to this.

5. How can I get in my house to get possessions?

I'd suggest the Solicitor arrange for a 3rd party to do this on your behalf or just ask him, given everything, how do I get my stuff?

6. How likely are the court to listen to a dad who is trying to protect his children but where my ex has put multiple allegations. Many have been NFA but obviously I’m currently on bail till January on her latest allegation of coercive behaviour and spying on her.

The court will always want to see parents who are child focussed and remain so through out the process.

This means it's about what you are doing for the kids not what your wife is doing to you or to them.

This has to be the best of everything you say to the court or in any communications.

 

[mva]

A non- mol usually last a year and the ex can ask the court to extend this after the year.

 

[Ash]

Following on from Magic's response:

NMO is usually for a year. But I've heard of some that have been longer.

Your current bail conditions are just like another non mol really - with either of them you can't go to the house anyway, so the Non Mol was unnecessary and over the top. But as you say, she is probably realising the bail will end soon.

I can see you have a lot whizzing round in your head. Let me try and simplify things a bit.

You are having all this shit thrown at you and it's a strategy, to make you not be able to think straight or see the wood for the trees, and to knobble you emotionally. This strategy is to try and keep control of the kids and stop you being focused enough to apply for, and get a Child Arrangements order, which to me, is the key at the moment. That immediately puts you in a much stronger position.

Your ex, as many of these ex's do - is acting pre-emptively. To try and prevent you getting a Child Arrangements order, she's making allegations and hoping to cause delays to you getting one by starting all these other legal process. The divorce, in the middle of all this, is a drop in the ocean - as mentioned above - it will happen when it's ready.

So you need to put all this xxit in a mental bin in a way, and focus on getting an order to see your children.

That order does quite a few things. Apart from letting you see your children regularly. Once you have that Child Arrangements order, it legalises you as a separated parent and the order has to be followed. Also once you have that order, all welfare issues or allegations against you have been dismissed. The very fact the Child Arrangements order has been made, recognises that you are a safe parent. It protects you to a degree and is something to show the police, school or whoever, so you can be a normal Dad in the real world.

What your ex is doing is trying to disempower you so she can keep control of everything.

It is a common strategy for an ex to take out an NMO and try and prevent a Child Arrangements order happening for a long time - so they can get the financials the way they want it. Ie blackmail. If you don't agree to give her everything, she won't let you see the kids. Now the thorn in her side with that plan is if you have a Child Arrangements order - she can't blackmail you over the finances because she HAS to let you see the kids - because there's a court order that says so. The one thing you want to avoid, if possible, is a fact finding hearing - this can take so long that whatever the result, by the time you've had that hearing, the chances are you might not have seen the kids for up to two years - and then they will say - kids are settled with Mum and don't want to see you blah blah.

This is all textbook stuff - a handbook for divorcing Mums.

So the way I see it is

Don't let her bamboozle you and complicate things and don't let their strategies dictate things. Keep focused on the goal of the Child Arrangements and keep focused on getting it in the shortest time possible.

1) The Bail - should be over by January.
2) The Non Mol - do an undertaking and get that hearing finished and closed down (but take legal advice).
3) Put that C100 in and apply for the child Arrangements order - until you do that you have no control at all - it will take months and the sooner you get the application in the better. But please run the application by us on here before sending it.
4) Agree to the occupation order. You can't win that one.

That leaves you with - the Child Arrangements process.

I'll be frank and I think your solicitor is running up bills and making things worse for you. It might feel good having someone send a letter telling your ex what she must and must not do but that letter has no power - it's just words and your ex can ignore. What does have power is a court order that says the children live with both their parents. You are then equal in the eyes of family law and you are also seen as a safe parent,. To get that order you need to be focused on tha.t.

I know it's easy for me to say on the outside when I am not the one being bombarded with all this stuff like you are, but I hope this helps and this is my opinion on the situation.

She/they are putting you in a constantly defensive situation by throwing everything at you. So duck. Just stick all the papers in a pile in the corner somewhere and ignore them but write the date on your phone of when you have to go to a non mol hearing.

Don't spend any more money on that solicitor (IMO) - save it for a barrister for the child arrangements hearing and get your ex put back in her box.

 

[Ash]

You can still have a workable child arrangements order with a non mol in place. It's not as easy but it's possible.

I know reality is hard to accept when you're in shock but you do need to accept two things:

1) You're not going to be living in your house again. Try to put any ideas about the house out of mind.
2) There is not going to be normal chatty amicable co parenting - because your ex doesn't want that - it takes two to tango.

What you can have instead is parallel parenting. That is a clearly defined order that sets out when the children are with each parent to the day and to the minute, and you both follow it to the letter. Everything can be set out in it down to when PE kit is swapped over on a Friday before the week-end, and many other things. So there is no need to communicate at all and you're each responsible for the care of the children when the children are with you and do things your own way - it is totally separate lives. The kids move between homes and benefit from two different lifestyles.

 

[Peanut 21]

Mountaingoat, do you have a means of contacting your kids while this is going on? A third party maybe? Or can you post them some little gifts/cards?

 

[MountainGoat]

Thankyou. This is really useful.

So basically at the moment I'm sort of living the same thing as this non occupation/non mol order as I cant do anything.
I realise that the Child arrangement order has to be made ASAP now.

What I don't understand fully is if I contest the orders or if they are granted to her, you all say I will have zero contact with the children. Why is that?
Is this a legal thing or because she could choose not to let me see them?

Her last letter from her solicititor was actually saying I could see them. I had been trying to negotitate when this would be and we then agreed on every other week but I did say I would like to see them in the week one day too as that is quite some time between two weeks.
I know many people don't get to see their kids for months so maybe I shouldnt be picky here, I'm just upset that the kids keep telling me they wish I was there everyday.

The way I can currently talk to the kids is via a family member who is the middle person. I have text message screenshots where she agreed to this just to cover myself.
Family member says I'm going to call the children and then I talk to them. She is often in the background listening in which is not right.

I am also trying to sort out when I see the children this weekend and family member has been sorting this out for me but she never gets back to us or only when it suits her so I can't plan anything as I don't know whatr is going on.

 

[winger]

This strategy is to try and keep control of the kids and stop you being focused enough to apply for, and get a Child Arrangements order, which to me, is the key at the moment. That immediately puts you in a much stronger position.

apply for your CAO mountain, get your C100 in buddy, it's something you need to do anyway and as Ash said it will put you in a better position for everything else. Are you doing a C100 currently?