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My Story - As it Happens
- Thread starter MagicJ
- Start date
Okay, we've got to October, this seemed so far away when I first started this Journey!
So, as it stands today, 6m since i filed, 4m since we submitted C100, FHDRA in 6 weeks & 2m since they submitted FRO, First Hearing in 2 weeks - I've got a different solicitor for each one.
We're in Mediation but it's not yielding any form of compromise, it's clear she just wants minimal and I want 50/50.
There's still plenty of misunderstanding and angst on both sides and the kids still question everything and show their emotions when I'm not available for them as I'm trying to give STBX space.
I'm still counselling and trying to get us both to Divorce Therapy, to try and resolve the emotional thundestorm that is sitting between us, so we can try and reach a settlement that is beneficial to everyone, sooner rather than later.
I feel like going to court for the settlements is not going to work in the kids favour so trying to push for an agreement, before the courts decide one, seems like the best approach!
So, as it stands today, 6m since i filed, 4m since we submitted C100, FHDRA in 6 weeks & 2m since they submitted FRO, First Hearing in 2 weeks - I've got a different solicitor for each one.
We're in Mediation but it's not yielding any form of compromise, it's clear she just wants minimal and I want 50/50.
There's still plenty of misunderstanding and angst on both sides and the kids still question everything and show their emotions when I'm not available for them as I'm trying to give STBX space.
I'm still counselling and trying to get us both to Divorce Therapy, to try and resolve the emotional thundestorm that is sitting between us, so we can try and reach a settlement that is beneficial to everyone, sooner rather than later.
I feel like going to court for the settlements is not going to work in the kids favour so trying to push for an agreement, before the courts decide one, seems like the best approach!
That argument doesn't seem to work very well when it is used the other way. I would hope it won't carry much water if your ex uses it in court. Lots and lots of kids are stuck in breakfast club and after school clubs while their dads are fighting to get more than a few hours a fortnight.
Could your attempts to give your STBX space be used by her to claim that she is playing the primary parental role? I feel a little uneasy about the idea of you stepping back for some reason. Just a little niggle of some kind I cannot quite explain.
Would you consider making a compromise offer to get a consent order? Maybe something like:
Wk1 Wed from school to Fri school drop off
Wk2 Wed from school to Thu school drop off
and Fri from school to Mon school drop
off
Not saying you should, just asking.
I'd agree @Resolute , I'm uneasy about it as well however when I am around earlier or on those days, even on weekdays, it causes angst for the kids as they want to spend time with me but this puts them in conflict with STBX.
I am thinking about doing it anyways and documenting it all otherwise it just shows that I'm not about.
I offered a similar pattern following 2-3-4-5 but this was rejected on the grounds it is significant disruption for the kids and as we don't get on this is unmanageable.
The above schedule had 1 midweek change only, the other was a week start/end change but she is just not pprepared to compromise
I am thinking about doing it anyways and documenting it all otherwise it just shows that I'm not about.
I offered a similar pattern following 2-3-4-5 but this was rejected on the grounds it is significant disruption for the kids and as we don't get on this is unmanageable.
The above schedule had 1 midweek change only, the other was a week start/end change but she is just not pprepared to compromise
She's had legal advice presumably so is only offering the basic minimum a court would order - ie every other week-end Friday to Sunday, one midweek tea time and half the holidays.
That would not be a bad order, if it included an overnight on the Wednesdays. Tea times are not good for long term as the kids will get bored with it as they get older and also it's not very settling for them if they can't come home with you.
A compromise like Roblox suggests is a good idea but I can see you may be thinking that if you suggests say 5 or 6 nights a fortnight and she refuses that, then when it goes to court she could say - he was prepared to accept 5 or 6 nights a fortnight.
So I guess the options are
a) Wait for the hearing and try negotiations there (and any compromises at pre hearing discussions).
b) Try for a compromise now to get a consent order. However consent orders for Child Arrangements don't always work either and it can still end up going to court. Because even if you agreed, say 5 nights a fortnight, her solicitor would draw up the order wording which would most likely be deliberately vague or with loopholes, to favour her and make it hard to enforce. So then there would be no agreement on order wording. You could get your solicitor to draw up order wording but it's likely there will be arguments back and forth about wording, no agreement and lots of bills run up and it still end up going to court.
I guess what you could maybe try, at the next mediation, is say - ok, can you improve on your proposal at all please in the hope we can reach agreement for a consent order. If she says no then you know where you stand and you might as well let it go to court as you're unlikely to get less than that and have a chance of getting more.
I'm sorry you're having to wait so long for a hearing. Personally I think until the Child Arrangements are sorted, the finances discussions won't go smoothly.
It sounds all a bit strategic - ie threatening court for finances unless you give in on child arrangements. Just stick to your guns and take things one thing at a time.
That would not be a bad order, if it included an overnight on the Wednesdays. Tea times are not good for long term as the kids will get bored with it as they get older and also it's not very settling for them if they can't come home with you.
A compromise like Roblox suggests is a good idea but I can see you may be thinking that if you suggests say 5 or 6 nights a fortnight and she refuses that, then when it goes to court she could say - he was prepared to accept 5 or 6 nights a fortnight.
So I guess the options are
a) Wait for the hearing and try negotiations there (and any compromises at pre hearing discussions).
b) Try for a compromise now to get a consent order. However consent orders for Child Arrangements don't always work either and it can still end up going to court. Because even if you agreed, say 5 nights a fortnight, her solicitor would draw up the order wording which would most likely be deliberately vague or with loopholes, to favour her and make it hard to enforce. So then there would be no agreement on order wording. You could get your solicitor to draw up order wording but it's likely there will be arguments back and forth about wording, no agreement and lots of bills run up and it still end up going to court.
I guess what you could maybe try, at the next mediation, is say - ok, can you improve on your proposal at all please in the hope we can reach agreement for a consent order. If she says no then you know where you stand and you might as well let it go to court as you're unlikely to get less than that and have a chance of getting more.
I'm sorry you're having to wait so long for a hearing. Personally I think until the Child Arrangements are sorted, the finances discussions won't go smoothly.
It sounds all a bit strategic - ie threatening court for finances unless you give in on child arrangements. Just stick to your guns and take things one thing at a time.
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Thanks both.
I think Finances may reach settlement before Childcare as my received advice has been there is not really much to play with given assets etc.
So the only outcome is STBX to stay in house for a number of years - to be negotiated - Spousal Support for same period & then sold, equity to her.
It's the Childcare that's up in the air, as mentioned above, I need to decide how to factor my time L@H and whether I should increase this now, even with though she is likely to put the kids in the middle, so I can show the court how my flexibility works.
I think, if Mediation next week yields NO compromise THEN I will just increase my time to what I have proposed it would be with the split whilst L@H and the wait for the courts to decide & argue that I have demonstrated my time & commitments.
I think Finances may reach settlement before Childcare as my received advice has been there is not really much to play with given assets etc.
So the only outcome is STBX to stay in house for a number of years - to be negotiated - Spousal Support for same period & then sold, equity to her.
It's the Childcare that's up in the air, as mentioned above, I need to decide how to factor my time L@H and whether I should increase this now, even with though she is likely to put the kids in the middle, so I can show the court how my flexibility works.
I think, if Mediation next week yields NO compromise THEN I will just increase my time to what I have proposed it would be with the split whilst L@H and the wait for the courts to decide & argue that I have demonstrated my time & commitments.
@Resolute , this is what I suggested as a 2-3-4-5 so 6 days for me:
Week 1: Monday PM to Wednesday AM, (2days)
Week 1-2: Saturday AM to Wednesday AM ( 4.5 days)
It's pretty difficult to organize anything less than this as the days don't fix properly & float around a bit with a lot of handovers
So given what I said above, whist L@H, I should be present 3pm M & T week 1 & Week 2 to demonstrate the capability in 6 weeks.
I'm a bit concerned that they want the finances tied up legally, before the child arrangements are tied up legally. What can happen is. Once the finances are tied up legally, she has all the power re the kids and you have no leverage left. She could just stop you seeing them and it could be months before you get a final order and have to start with slow progression/introduction to seeing them.
I'm not saying your ex would do this, but what can and does happen is. Ex gets the finances done legally, stops the children seeing you and by the time you finally get an order for 1 day a fortnight, she is saying they refuse to see you. Or they are actually refusing. This is why it's so important to get the Child Arrangements finalised first.'
Don't be bulldozed into being reasonable and getting the finances sorted first. At the moment you have nothing concrete or legal over child arrangements - whatever she says in mediation she can just change her mind tomorrow.
When is your first hearing again?
I'm not saying your ex would do this, but what can and does happen is. Ex gets the finances done legally, stops the children seeing you and by the time you finally get an order for 1 day a fortnight, she is saying they refuse to see you. Or they are actually refusing. This is why it's so important to get the Child Arrangements finalised first.'
Don't be bulldozed into being reasonable and getting the finances sorted first. At the moment you have nothing concrete or legal over child arrangements - whatever she says in mediation she can just change her mind tomorrow.
When is your first hearing again?
In a way, child arrangements is part of the finances because the outcome of a child arrangements order dictates how much or it there is any child maintenance to pay and you want to know that before you commit to any other financial outcomes. I would want to know that anyway.
I am guessing you are trying to avoid her making allegations by appeasing her possibly? I really think you should not commit to finalising the finances until the child arrangements are sorted. Get that under your belt and then you're in a stronger and more realistic situation to discuss finances.
In fact even by agreeing to paying spousal and her keeping the house and all the equity (for many years at least) that is basically saying you accept she has sole residency of the kids. Because if she didn't have sole residency of the kids the finances would be different. I think she is trying to take you for every penny.
And much as you want things to be reasonable and amicable - it takes two. She doesn't want that, she wants you to give her everything and see the kids minimal and pay child support as well. This is very common.
Just imagine the future a bit. Say you go with this financial deal. And you are stuck living with your parents and unable to afford a place of your own and tied into paying her for years and the house not being sold. And then a week after the hearing, she moves in a new partner, who is on a very high salary and living in the house with your kids and she gets them to start calling him Dad.
That is also quite common. I also don't see the point of a clause saying the house has to be sold in x years if she is getting all the equity anyway!
In fact even by agreeing to paying spousal and her keeping the house and all the equity (for many years at least) that is basically saying you accept she has sole residency of the kids. Because if she didn't have sole residency of the kids the finances would be different. I think she is trying to take you for every penny.
And much as you want things to be reasonable and amicable - it takes two. She doesn't want that, she wants you to give her everything and see the kids minimal and pay child support as well. This is very common.
Just imagine the future a bit. Say you go with this financial deal. And you are stuck living with your parents and unable to afford a place of your own and tied into paying her for years and the house not being sold. And then a week after the hearing, she moves in a new partner, who is on a very high salary and living in the house with your kids and she gets them to start calling him Dad.
That is also quite common. I also don't see the point of a clause saying the house has to be sold in x years if she is getting all the equity anyway!
Put it this way. IF you had a 50/50 order as an outcome of child arrangements, you are then both equally responsible for providing for the children,. You both need a suitable home and enough money to provide for feeding and clothing the kids on your time, and their activities. Your ex needs less because you are paying for them half the time yourself. And if she wants to keep a nice big house she can retrain and get a job. She may not need to if and when she has a new partner with a good income.
Obviously she wants the lot, but the finances and child arrangements are interlinked and obviously she wants the finances committed to first (whatever she says). When is your first hearing date again? Keep focused on the child arrangements and don't be bamboozled.
Obviously she wants the lot, but the finances and child arrangements are interlinked and obviously she wants the finances committed to first (whatever she says). When is your first hearing date again? Keep focused on the child arrangements and don't be bamboozled.
I can see they are both 6 nights to you 8 to her. Pattern I mentioned might feel nicer to her because it is an enhanced default, Sunday added to weekend and Thursday added to the regular school night.
Maybe you could say in mediation that you are offering 6 out of 14 to try and resolve. If there is a contested hearing you will revert to 50/50 position. Could even say you will be moving to vacate financial hearing as child arrangements not resolved. Shouldn't you know what is happening with the kids before dividing finances?
You are offering her victory without a fight. I think she needs to feel some threat from the fight for that to work.
Agree that you could say you are offering 6/14 to resolve. And would revert to 50.50 otherwise. However I wouldn't trust it to happen even if she agreed - because I doubt the order wording would ever be agreed for a consent order. She would want so many loopholes in it. She probably won't agree anyway. I don't think she has a fear of a final hearing. I think her motivation is to get the finances legalised before a final hearing and then have total control.
Agreement means nothing - without a court order.
Agreement means nothing - without a court order.