My Story - As it Happens

[Ash]

What does the solicitor think? Or are you between solicitors right now. As I didn't understand the ins and outs of it, I asked chatgpt Who said

"By agreeing not to finalize things, you might be indicating that you won't take actions that would affect these financial matters without the court's involvement or approval. This could be seen as a way to ensure that the court's decision is respected and followed.

However, it's crucial to consult with your own solicitor or attorney to understand the specific implications of this request. They can provide advice tailored to your situation, taking into account the details of your divorce or separation. You should also make sure you fully understand any legal documents or agreements before you sign them."

 

[Ash]

Now just reading that chatgpt response, if it's correct, makes me think you shouldn't agree. Because if, for example, you get a 50/50 shared care order via the courts, that could indeed affect the financial outcome if there is no child support to pay. And that was a point I was trying to make earlier. Don't commit to a global order or any child support, until you've got your child arrangements order (ideally).

So it sounds like they want you to commit to finances, before you get child arrangements order, without completing the FRO. I think I've just confused myself!

Sorry if I've misunderstood - I am no expert on divorce.

 

[MagicJ]

I'm sitting in the fence, deadline for response is 4pm today.

When I started this process, I had tried to time the CAO so it could kick in by the time the divorce was ready.

I never really considered the FRO except that I understood it to be in my interest to lock it down as well afterwards she could just leave it then I'm fucked if I ever get a better job or get inheritance or win the lottery.

The ONLY reason I'm even considering telling them to go away is that they've even asked me and given a deadline which tells me it means more of a loss to them than me.

I'm in between but I've kinda hired the London firm, I just actually hire them yet because
a) got no money
b) told the court I need 6v weeks to get sorted
c) they're pushing court for the new date so don't really want to have 'fixed' the problem after 7 days.

However I've emailed this to the new lawyer to see if she will keep giving me freebies - I've had 4 discrete bits of advice since the free 50min I got.

 

[Ash]

Or you could just reply "Thank you for your letter, we will respond in due course". ie don't call me, I'll call you.

 

[Daddy]

I think it's standard to not finalise the divorce until the financial remedy order is in place. This happened to me. I agreed not to finalise the divorce until the financial proceedings were settled and an order made. I got divorced the day after!

With regards to child arrangements affecting the financials, it will be argued that the primary carer should receive more share of the pot. This is where your Mescher orders come in etc. However if child arrangements proceedings are in progress then it I imagine that it would be difficult to argue that case as the child arrangements are not set in stone as to speak.

In the ideal world from a father's perspective, get child arrangements done first and then the financials as mother's have been known to stop children spending time with their fathers if it isn't going there way. But she's applied for the financials which I find strange, but tactically, she's got you fighting on both fronts so you can't prioritise your efforts on the most important thing, the children involved.

 

[MagicJ]

All,

Anyone have experience of Part 25 applications?

I was expecting one to be discussed as part of the DRA but as this is currently adjourned, STBX will now be putting one into court.
Given this is really part of the Directions for a DRA, I don't see why we would waste court judicial time to discuss this outside that process.

By the same token, I don't want to keep writing to the court every time they try to piecemeal directions into the court.
It not only ties me up but may also cost 50-150 quid each time if I have to put an application in to do so.

Any suggestions on how to approach this?

Cheers

 

[MagicJ]

I think it's standard to not finalise the divorce until the financial remedy order is in place. This happened to me. I agreed not to finalise the divorce until the financial proceedings were settled and an order made. I got divorced the day after!

With regards to child arrangements affecting the financials, it will be argued that the primary carer should receive more share of the pot. This is where your Mescher orders come in etc. However if child arrangements proceedings are in progress then it I imagine that it would be difficult to argue that case as the child arrangements are not set in stone as to speak.

In the ideal world from a father's perspective, get child arrangements done first and then the financials as mother's have been known to stop children spending time with their fathers if it isn't going there way. But she's applied for the financials which I find strange, but tactically, she's got you fighting on both fronts so you can't prioritise your efforts on the most important thing, the children involved.

Yes, it was a good tactic & it put me in a tight corner but with some support from here I have fought my way out of that for now.
I am focussed on the Childcare arrangements for the moment however, as just posted they are trying to nip away at my heels.

I don't want to get distracted so may just get them to agree that there is no need to do anything at this stage & await the DRA.
I just need to phrase this in a way that shows I am not fussed but if they don't then potentially I can seek costs for wasted time perhaps.
i.e. make them think twice about saying no.

 

[Peanut 21]

Part 25 Applications

This article hopefully gives a comprehensive review of the law relating to Part 25 Applications, including a new Court of Appeal case

becket-chambers.co.uk

 

[capa]

I believe it is because you can't claim off each others pensions amongst other things if you are divorced.

Where does it state this? I'm in the divorce process, and expecting a hit on my pension, if a clean break is not agreed then pension is there to be hit at any point or am I wrong here?

 

[MagicJ]

I'd get specific advice here @capa but from what I've read last few days, if you managed to get a Decree Absolute/Final Order pensions are out or bounds.

However, big caution here, we have no idea if this means there is a greater chance of other assets being increased in percentage terms to the other party.

Also there is a process to prevent a Decree Absolute which would basically be a balance of probabilities in front of a judge to prove who is being disadvantaged the most in either direction I.e. granting it or not granting it

 

[MagicJ]

A segue to a question on principals user for equivalence of care.

If STBX is wfh pt, am I good to state that I have not needed to be the one that does the Afternoon routine as Mum is available and I am working.

However I have the letter from work on adaptable work hours for the future to allow for when they stay with me, so I can do that routine.

Question.

- does it undermine me to admit STBX has been doing afternoon/dinner routines.
- does it undermine me if I only state I can do it once 50/50 is established.

Are the courts expecting that even if I am the mai earner and STBX is at home, I should be reducing hours and coming home to be around?

 

[Ash]

Is the Part 25 application related to Child Arrangements or Divorce proceedings? I've only come across it with CAO hearings - to ask for an expert report - eg a psychologists report.

Your ex and her solicitors are really bombarding you aren't they? Trying to distract you from FHDRA preparation no doubt.

 

[capa]

However, big caution here, we have no idea if this means there is a greater chance of other assets being increased in percentage terms to the other party.

As we know pensions are marital assets and are treated as such when sorting finances, however you are right if a financial agreement is reached with the legally binding clean break then the pension cannot be touched. Nonetheless to reach that financial final order/clean break then assets may have to be sacrificed in favour of the other party to alleviate that pension split, its what I'm planning ,give a bigger slice of the house sale , if it happens,to prevent sharing pension.

So if you have a good pension then it's worth working out what ypur prepared to give up to keep that pension, I.e. if the ex share would be say 100k you in theory would have to offset that with other assets now to protect that, cos the ex would know the value after the form E sharing and if the assets won't amount to that then IMO there will be no clean break, that's my opinion and thought,please correct if I'm wrong on any point

But don't forget if the clean break is not reached then, your just as much entitled to go for half of the ex's pension which is where the pension sharing order comes in which includes defined contribution and benefit pension but not your state pension ,however there are stipulations on whether your state pension can be claimed by the ex.

If your ex-spouse remarried before reaching State Pension age, they cannot claim on your NI contributions record. However, they can still claim a State Pension on your record if:

• They remarried after reaching State Pension age, provided this was before 6th April 2016
• They remarried before they reached State Pension age on or before 6th April 2016

 

[capa]

As we know pensions are marital assets and are treated as such when sorting finances, however you are right if a financial agreement is reached with the legally binding clean break then the pension cannot be touched. Nonetheless to reach that financial final order/clean break then assets may have to be sacrificed in favour of the other party to alleviate that pension split, its what I'm planning ,give a bigger slice of the house sale , if it happens,to prevent sharing pension.

So if you have a good pension then it's worth working out what ypur prepared to give up to keep that pension, I.e. if the ex share would be say 100k you in theory would have to offset that with other assets now to protect that, cos the ex would know the value after the form E sharing and if the assets won't amount to that then IMO there will be no clean break, that's my opinion and thought,please correct if I'm wrong on any point

But don't forget if the clean break is not reached then, your just as much entitled to go for half of the ex's pension which is where the pension sharing order comes in which includes defined contribution and benefit pension but not your state pension ,however there are stipulations on whether your state pension can be claimed by the ex.

If your ex-spouse remarried before reaching State Pension age, they cannot claim on your NI contributions record. However, they can still claim a State Pension on your record if:

• They remarried after reaching State Pension age, provided this was before 6th April 2016
• They remarried before they reached State Pension age on or before

IMO when pensions are concerned you need to do your homework

 

[MagicJ]

Right, so some feedback needed.

If you have only been requested to exchange a PS would the court accept a Witness Statement in an non-contested hearing?

Thanks

 

[Roblox]

Did this WS get mentioned in mediation or any allegations

 

[MagicJ]

Nope.

From what I can tell of the court order leading to FHDRA, it talks about PS only, there is no mention of a WS.
I also understood the FHDRA to be a non-contested event so surely a WS is not an accepted document.

There are no allegations on the table currently, the prior SG call made mention of a handful of Practice 12J allegations which are refuted.
Recommendations after SG were for status quo to remain & for Mediation to be used to resolve matters ahead of a court.

 

[Resolute]

I submitted a WS prior to my FHDRA. It was accepted, but the other side did not object.

 

[MagicJ]

If it was accepted, what role if any did it play in the FHDRA proceedings?

 

[Resolute]

If it was accepted, what role if any did it play in the FHDRA proceedings?

I think it had short term benefit. It made the judge think twice about allegations against me and got an interim order for three full days a week unsupervised. It very nearly got regulated joint occupation ordered, but ex's barrister squirmed out of that with promises to evidence my extensive abuse of ex and child.

I am not sure it was the right strategic move in the round. Might have given away too much too early.