Advice What can I do???

[Peanut 21]

Sorry, just seen on your first post you said you were doing this.
So trying to resolve with the ex first step. We know it's only for show but can be used in court.
I'm wondering whether you could try and suggest mediation? Again to show court you've tried that avenue.

 

[DB2021]

Sorry, just seen on your first post you said you were doing this.
So trying to resolve with the ex first step. We know it's only for show but can be used in court.
I'm wondering whether you could try and suggest mediation? Again to show court you've tried that avenue.

Yeah I want to try that first as ex can’t help herself but revert to type as this has shown, only took 3 weeks this time.

Social worker who was involved and suggested that and has said she will facilitate it if needed so I think maybe that’s a good option aswell as an email then I’ve tried 2 different routes.

Things have to change but it’s ex that needs to change little one has made her feelings clear many times but is then put in the middle by ex and that’s when the hostility starts and exs attitude is ohh well I don’t know why it’s happening and offers no help. She is happy for little one to reject me and has been from the beginning which she has stated to the professionals also but they seem hell bent on not considering ex is behind this behaviour.

 

[Ash]

OK so since Nov 22 there's a pattern of stop/start time with you and your daughter.
You may not have written evidence but if you haven't already you can write a diary or timeline (notes or spreadsheet on your phone) to show the disruption.
So it could be as simple as:

Weds 6th May (made up the date but sure you get the gist) : due to collect daughter. Daughter refused with no encouragement from mum.

Thurs 7th emailed mum to try and come to arrangement about seeing daughter. Mum ignored.

Weds 10th July:
Was due to collect daughter but refused again. Mum didn't encourage.

Thurs 24th Aug:
Had daughter 3 nights. All well until daughter face time mum and daughter became distressed.

You can use this as a type of evidence to show when your daughter refused to come and any comms with mum about trying to resolve matters.

What do others think about DB reapplying to court to enforce? Too soon?

I think all that's been done already as he had a C100 submitted which detailed the situation. That was withdrawn recently.

 

[Ash]

I can't see mediation would help really as your ex is unreliable. Back to "don't negotiate with terrrorists". Maybe the social worker can help for now.

 

[DB2021]

I can't see mediation would help really as your ex is unreliable. Back to "don't negotiate with terrrorists". Maybe the social worker can help for now.

The social worker won’t do anything other than offer mediation between us.

She still just refuses to even consider that ex is behind it. I’m just constantly told to keep going and not slip back etc.

But the reality is nearly a year down the line and whilst there is progression as I’ve finally had overnights etc it’s been disrupted throughout the whole 12 months and my ex is very cleverly doing things to get my little one to not come.

She seams to have things planned for the weekends so she starts on little one middle of the week and by Thursday/Friday her behaviour towards me has completely changed.

It’s not coincidence that this has happened both of the weeks I should have had her mon-sun.

I’m done just saying nothing and being treated this way and I’d rather lose my daughter going down fighting than just allow this to carry on and I lose her anyway.

I know I need to tread carefully with what I say but this can’t continue anymore and sadly approaching the so called professionals has not helped me one bit.

 

[DB2021]

Another little bit to add if I do go back down court route I only have 1 month of my MIAM left

 

[DB2021]

So sadly again this morning little one refused to come and still hostile and angry at me.

Told me it’s her grandads week because he had arrived this morning before I got there.

I said to her “I can see your angry” “but I don’t understand why” she then said it’s because I keep saying “let’s go let’s go” and forcing her to come.

Also said mums partners daughter “hates” me.

I have messaged ex this as I want to meet up and talk.

“Hi, I know you're busy this weekend but could we meet up for a talk please when you have chance? Didn't today because I know you were going out. Rather do it away from your house so we can meet somewhere your comfortable with”

This week has ended in an exact mirror image of how my first week ended and both weeks her grandad has come down at the weekend.

 

[MagicJ]

That's a very difficult situation as the majority of children enjoy spending time with extended family.

 

[DB2021]

That's a very difficult situation as the majority of children enjoy spending time with extended family.

No I know it is and I understand my little one wanting to spend time with her grandad but ex knew which weeks I was having and could have easily arranged it so he came down on her weeks.

Now because of this I’ve lost nearly half my time with her because of this and it’s no coincidence that her behaviour towards me changed right before he came down plus added with the things my ex has said to her to me anyway it’s a clear way of her disrupting my time with her.

It’s being done in a very clever way I admit as she will obviously claim it’s all innocent but she knows exactly what she’s doing.

 

[Ash]

No I know it is and I understand my little one wanting to spend time with her grandad but ex knew which weeks I was having and could have easily arranged it so he came down on her weeks.

Exactly. I think as mentioned before it's kind of one extreme or the other. Or it becomes intractible. So it's either going full on for a 50/50 order with the strong arguments you had before. Or give up and accept it will be like this.

Neither is an easy option. And both options still risk your daughter having psychological impact. I have been in a similar dilemma, weighing up the possible harms. In the end I decided to go for the best court order I could get and my son's life got a lot better. He wasn't completely free of psychological pressures from my ex but he was happier and felt more secure. Because my ex had had some power taken away.

 

[DB2021]

Ex replied and agreed to meet but then sent this and I’m unsure how to reply.

She first said about texting her which i wasn’t comfortable with as txts can come across different and argumentative.


“Not sure what we can have left to say we only spoke the other day. I know shes not gone with you but she did do 3 nights which I think is a very good start”

 

[DB2021]

Exactly. I think as mentioned before it's kind of one extreme or the other. Or it becomes intractible. So it's either going full on for a 50/50 order with the strong arguments you had before. Or give up and accept it will be like this.

Neither is an easy option. And both options still risk your daughter having psychological impact. I have been in a similar dilemma, weighing up the possible harms. In the end I decided to go for the best court order I could get and my son's life got a lot better. He wasn't completely free of psychological pressures from my ex but he was happier and felt more secure. Because my ex had had some power taken away.

I think the biggest issue I have though is my littlest behaviour towards me.

If she was happy and said “I’d like to stay home today daddy because grandad is here” it wouldn’t be as bad yes I lose my time but at least I know she’s happy with me.

But I don’t get that I get such hostility and anger and that’s what worries me the most so even a better court order doesn’t explain the behaviour towards me

 

[Resolute]

I think you would be better to hold off speaking to your ex and to do everything in writing. It is now a game of cat and mouse. You need to give her a way of painting herself into a corner and capitalise on that in court.

 

[Peanut 21]

“Not sure what we can have left to say we only spoke the other day. I know shes not gone with you but she did do 3 nights which I think is a very good start”

Yes it's a good start but it's not the agreed time.
This is her trying to come across as reasonable again.

Don't meet. Keep it in writing.
You could say something like:
"3 days is a good start but the agreed times were x date- x date. In order to get a good routine going for our daughter we need to stick to the agreed times in the court order. I dropped her back to you on Wednesday in good faith as she was upset. I believe you should have encouraged her to come back with me again the next day to continue the time agreed she was to spend with me."

3 days is probably your exs breaking point where she can't cope without your daughter.
It's a pattern. My partners ex the same. She says my partner can't cope a few days into a school holiday when it's her struggling.

 

[Peanut 21]

Another thought. She'll be back at school soon so you can use the school again to help facilitate pick ups.

 

[DB2021]

Another thought. She'll be back at school soon so you can use the school again to help facilitate pick ups.

Hi Peanut.

I have already spoken to her on the phone, she just gave the usual talk of give it time etc etc. I didn’t get much chance to challenge her on what has happened this summer hols but it’s been noted down and this will be the last time it happens without me taking it further.

The sad reality is it’s me versus everyone as the professionals still refuse to even acknowledge anything they just say speak to ex which is pointless given she is the one causing things but doing it very cleverly.

The sad reality of it all is I’ve allowed this to go on for so long it’s just become the norm.

The social worker isn’t someone I can approach as she is part of the problem she just believes ex can do no wrong and despite there being constant disruption throughout the last 12 months and little ones obvious strange behaviour towards me she still won’t even consider that this isn’t normal and something is going on.

Yes that’s a plus hopefully but sadly even school pick ups don’t always work before the summer hols I went 8 weeks of going to pick her up and having to deal with such hostility as soon as we left the school grounds.

I think I’m at the point now where the next time the behaviour becomes so extreme like before I have to say to ex I can no longer continue this way and I’m going to look into proper support if she refuses that then it’s back to court.

 

[DB2021]

Yes it's a good start but it's not the agreed time.
This is her trying to come across as reasonable again.

Don't meet. Keep it in writing.
You could say something like:
"3 days is a good start but the agreed times were x date- x date. In order to get a good routine going for our daughter we need to stick to the agreed times in the court order. I dropped her back to you on Wednesday in good faith as she was upset. I believe you should have encouraged her to come back with me again the next day to continue the time agreed she was to spend with me."

3 days is probably your exs breaking point where she can't cope without your daughter.
It's a pattern. My partners ex the same. She says my partner can't cope a few days into a school holiday when it's her struggling.

100% she was the one that couldn’t handle the fact little one was away from her and happy.

And I suspect the second FaceTime call was due to the fact the first one didn’t have the desired effect as little one stayed and was happy. It’s no coincidence that after second one within 10mins she wants to go home.

Also her family being down this weekend and my first weekend will also have been another reason for her to disrupt my time.

Ash is right tbh it’s either I just give up and accept how things are or I don’t and it becomes very messy it’s a tough choice to make.

 

[Ash]

I think it was inadvisable to speak to her on the phone as she is just manipulating you and stringing you along. Frankly xxxx "give it time". There is a court order in place that says she spends x week with you in the holidays isn't there? She hasn't breached that, because you returned the child before the week was up. So she's manipulating both you and the child to ensure she's not in breach. If you keep that in mind, that she is keeping you powerless, it might help with keeping focused on following the court order and seeking advice - either on here or from a solicitor, if something happens when it's on your time. Presumably that's the summer holiday ordered dates done now is it? When is the next court ordered holiday period with you?

I believe, as the current order stands - there are no term time overnights ordered are there? But there is a holiday period now and then (which of course would include overnights). Is that right? The order isn't really workable if it doesn't include overnights in the wording, once they have commenced. It's parenting time, not a visit to an acquaintance.

I think hearing her talk on the phone may make you slip into behaving like a nice normal person - and it also runs the risk of being accused of being hostile or aggressive if you object to anything. As Peanut says - you need to keep everything in writing from now on. If she phones - don't answer - respond with a text. It's flogging a dead horse trying to make arrangements with your ex.

 

[DB2021]

I think it was inadvisable to speak to her on the phone as she is just manipulating you and stringing you along. Frankly xxxx "give it time". There is a court order in place that says she spends x week with you in the holidays isn't there? She hasn't breached that, because you returned the child before the week was up. So she's manipulating both you and the child to ensure she's not in breach. If you keep that in mind, that she is keeping you powerless, it might help with keeping focused on following the court order and seeking advice - either on here or from a solicitor, if something happens when it's on your time. Presumably that's the summer holiday ordered dates done now is it? When is the next court ordered holiday period with you?

I believe, as the current order stands - there are no term time overnights ordered are there? But there is a holiday period now and then (which of course would include overnights). Is that right? The order isn't really workable if it doesn't include overnights in the wording, once they have commenced. It's parenting time, not a visit to an acquaintance.

I think hearing her talk on the phone may make you slip into behaving like a nice normal person - and it also runs the risk of being accused of being hostile or aggressive if you object to anything. As Peanut says - you need to keep everything in writing from now on. If she phones - don't answer - respond with a text. It's flogging a dead horse trying to make arrangements with your ex.

Hi Ash.

Yes I can see that I’ve again made a mistake by talking to her on the phone and one thing I do know is I’m extremely weak and just don’t have the confidence to stand up to her properly. Saddest part is I’m scared of her not of what she will do to me personally but how much damage she will do to my relationship with our daughter so I walk on egg shells and just take all this.

I have 2 more days next week which is the last of the summer hols then the next ones would be the October half term.

I will come on here next time there is any disruption which I’m guessing will be next week as little one didn’t come today either so I highly doubt she will next week either but I do stick to the court order and turn up on the days I should and I always will.

Yes overnights are not in the order at all so I’m completely at the mercy of ex allowing them which again I thinks he has used this week as a way to show well she stayed but then didn’t want to it’s not my fault etc.

I do feel that I have to email her a full and frank view done respectfully of course but it’s the only way I see me getting my point across and her knowing that if things continue the way they are then I will return to court obviously yours and others advice on whether that’s a good idea or not is appreciated.

My weakness is by biggest downfall and I know I’m failing my little girl so badly because of this.

 

[Ash]

Technically, overnights are in your order. Is it gives you holiday time and for a full week on occasion. It's just they're not ordered for term time.