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Advice What can I do???

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Quick advice if possible.

So little one is staying at my sisters again had an amazing time last night and made her own decision to stay again.

Ex though is again FaceTiming her later which I’m not particularly happy about. I understood yesterday with it being the first week she’s stayed away from mum and I was respectful of that.

If she again tomorrow says she calling her I’d like to send a polite but formal Biff message to her just not sure how to approach it and was hopeful of some advice
 
So sadly not a good update this time.

Ex FaceTimed little one and said a few things to her she was fine at first but within 30mins of it she was crying and wanted to go home so I had to go pick her up and take her back.

Her behaviour again completely changed towards me when we got there said I’d forced her to give me cuddles and that she hasn’t been happy with me only time she was was when I wasn’t there.

Ex said the below over yesterdays call and todays which I know full well was a tactic to manipulate her.

“She had got rid of her rabbits” - then said I’m only joking.

“The house was so quiet without her”

“Telling her grandad was coming down from where he lives”

Again telling her she was going to call tomorrow but she would have to call early because she’s going out.

And sadly I now know I won’t get the rest of the week with her just like week 1 when I had her same day same outcome both weeks her grandad was down that weekend and things went wrong on the Thursday.

I’m so angry with myself for trying so hard to have things amicable when I feel like I’m being played so badly 😢.

I have no idea how to broach this with ex as tbh I know what she’s up to and if I send an email etc she will hit the roof but my summer has been ruined by this.

I am thankful though that I did get the last few days as despite my little ones hostility tonight I saw how she really feels and that gives me some comfort.
 
I don’t know if anyone has any ideas on what email to send but any views would help.

I know any email I send will cause major issues as ex cannot accept being challenged on anything especially being accused of anything untoward.

But I know I have no choice but to send it and that my mistake was withdrawing my application to court.

Whilst I did get overnights finally all of this just feels like I’ve been played which I was wanted about it so I know I only have my self to blame.
 
Sorry for so many messages but this is what I’ve written I haven’t sent it though as I want peoples thoughts. I’m not the best at these things so be as honest as you want.

Hi.

I feel like I have been left with no option but to send this as I’m extremely disappointed with how things have gone over the summer holidays and I have left this email until today to see if xxxxx came on the rest of the days this week which sadly as suspected she hasn’t.

Both the weeks I was supposed to have and have been cut short both on the Thursday of each week which coincided with xxxxx coming down and I don’t feel this is a coincidence.

Also the first week you said to xxxxx on the Friday “your not going to soft play on Saturday now” when you knew she was supposed to be with me which I find very concerning as that to me shows you are saying things to xxxxx before I arrive and a 5 year old is obviously going to feel like she is missing out and those things shouldn’t be mentioned to her at all when she is due to spend time with me. What you do when I have xxxxx is your business but telling her what your going to be doing or telling her she’s going to soft play on a day that I have her is not helping at all and tbh I feel like your deliberately doing this so she doesn’t want to come with me as you clearly plan things on days I have her and it’s not the first time.

And this week again I agreed to you FaceTiming her given it was the first time she had been away from you for such a period as I wanted to be amicable but I feel you have used this against me and the things you have said to her on these calls again were to manipulate her into coming home. And also asking and telling her your going to FaceTime her on both Thursday and Friday if she had stayed is wrong I don’t ask you to do this when I’m not with her as I respect that it’s your time so moving forward if and when she stays again I will no longer agree to FaceTime calls as it unsettles her when she had been perfectly happy and content the whole time she was staying with me and whilst you may not want to hear it she didn’t mention home at all during those first 3 days so she is more than capable of being away and she deserves to have that time with both of us.

I want things to be amicable as it’s what’s best for xxxxx and whether you like me or not that’s the most important thing which I’d like to think we both agree on.

Xxxxx behaviour towards me which is not normal is not something I’m just going to let happen month after month without doing everything I can to make sure I don’t lose my relationship with her. Kids don’t just turn on their parent as regularly as she does without there being something going on.

I understand you will be angry at this email but you have no issue telling me how you feel so I know now I have to do the same whether it be good or bad.

It is both our responsibility to encourage and support each other’s relationship with her whether we like each other or not that’s between us and should not be placed on xxxxx shoulders she deserves and has a right to a loving relationship with both her parents.

I hope we can move forward and both help xxxxx have that loving relationship with both of us and whilst I understand we won’t ever be friends being amicable and staying out of court is clearly the best thing for our daughter.
 
Sorry to hear that @DB2021 but it's a familiar tactic, use a loving voice but disrupt your child good time.

TBH she shouldn't be calling every night, if at all whilst she is with you, as a co-parent, she needs to leave you to actually parent.

It seems you already know she's not interested in hearing how her actions may be disrupting her child.

Don't send anything whilst you are in a heightened emotional state and one or two days isn't going to make a difference to putting any application back.

Let yourself settle and vent here I'm not the best on BIFF messages, so will let the others comment on that

Glad you got a few days with her though :)
 
Glad you never sent that message, it's not Brief, Informative, Formal, Friendly.

I know it's frustrating 😒 and also upsetting to see your child at 5yrs made to feel they are missing out for being with you.

Take a few deep breath, take a walk or fresh air, leave it a day or so and in the meantime let the others pitch in.

Hang in there buddy 🙏
 
Glad you never sent that message, it's not Brief, Informative, Formal, Friendly.

I know it's frustrating 😒 and also upsetting to see your child at 5yrs made to feel they are missing out for being with you.

Take a few deep breath, take a walk or fresh air, leave it a day or so and in the meantime let the others pitch in.

Hang in there buddy 🙏
Thanx Magic 😀.

Yeah these last few days have been amazing and show me even more so how my little one feels and that’s a huge comfort.

That’s exactly why I put it on here as I’m rubbish at those sorts of emails but what I’ve written is my honest views but I understand probs not the best thing to send.

I have to stand up to her though and call her out on these things now as I’ve never done so and I think that’s been one of my biggest mistakes.

I wouldn’t have sent anything until end of the week anyway as I want to see if my little one comes any of the other days as I suspect she won’t just like the first week.
 
Hang fire. It's a bit late - I'll reply properly tomorrow. But always remember your little one has no control. The adults do.

And the other thing is - you have a court order don't you? That says she spends x week with you? Therefore, when your ex phones and your child cries and says she wants to go home. You settle your child, you don't take her home and you contact the ex and briefly inform her that child was very upset after the facetime call, and what she said was inappropriate. And it's best there are no more facetime calls until the end of the week when you return her.

What has happened now is that by returning her early, you haven't complied with the court order so it looks like you're in agreement with returning her early.

I can see you wanted to avoid your child worrying. And even if you had a better court order, your ex could still manipulate your child and threaten to get rid of her rabbits to disrupt her time with you.

Your ex clearly can't stand the fact that your child is away from her and happy somewhere else. But neither can she care for her very much to say such a cruel thing to a child. My ex has done the same kind of thing when we're on holiday. Usually on the first day, and similar tactics. Doing something to upset him - throwing something away or whatever. It's to teach the child to reject you or else.
 
Thanx Ash.

I appreciate that.

Yes I do and I always worry that my little one will hate me if I force her to stay even though what you’ve said makes complete sense.

I’m clearly not where i need to be strength wise and I have reached out to the guy I was seeing about my mental health for some support again not because I’m struggling mentally anymore but because I’m just to weak and my anxiety is clearly really bad so I give in way to easily which I know needs to stop.

I have no idea when I’ll have her overnight again but if and when I do I certainly won’t be allowing FaceTime calls when she is with me.

The big thing for me is sending some sort of email message to ex to let her know I won’t stand for this anymore etc but doing it in the right way which the above I see clearly isn’t.

I have a few days as I want to see if I get anymore time with my little one first given I should have her till Sunday as I suspect I won’t just like my first week.
 
I have to stand up to her though and call her out on these things now as I’ve never done so and I think that’s been one of my biggest mistakes.
Believe me DB, you could be the most perfect man imaginable and there's nothing you could say or do to please this woman.
When people talk about standing up to a narcissist it's not that simple. They twist everything you say.

She's come out with the classics such as "the house so quiet without you". Of course it is but your child doesn't need to know that.
My partners ex used to message his daughter that line all the time when he had her. The poor kids feel so guilty leaving mum. It's cruel.

Ash good at writing stuff so hold fire until you have some good ideas of what to send.

Ps, and to say she'd got rid of the rabbits is plan nasty. Telling your child whether they're 2, 5 or 15 you've got rid of their pet is really low and cruel.
 
I watched a Karen Woodall YouTube video the other day about some reasons behind parents who alienate.
The extreme example was if a mother was sexually abused at the age of 9, she may plant the seed in her 9 year old daughters head that "daddy touched you in a private place" so the child starts making false allegations. This actually comforts the mother as she can 'rescue' her child.
In these cases the problem lies with the alienator but everyone is so busy investigating innocent parents and trying to fix them and assessing the kids the problem doesn't get fixed.

In an ideal world the courts and social services would have a process in which after x amount of false allegations/breaches are made they then have to assess the alleging parent.

It's the injustice of the alienated parent having to jump through hoops and being lied about to their child which really gets to me.
 
What happened here looks like a rerun of what was happening when handovers to you failed. Your daughter was emotionally primed to reject you and then pulled into making an adult decision. Your ex presented herself as generous by arranging the weeks with you and then manipulated your daughter into rejecting you so as to backtrack on her 'generosity.' Her willingness to cause such a rupture for your daughter is troubling to me. Some might say that using an innocent child as a pawn is abuse.

You cannot control your ex. I agree with Peanut that what you write is not likely to please her. Let alone change her. You can control yourself. You did not have to bring your daughter back because she got upset. What happens if she gets upset while she is with your ex? Obviously the move will not be reciprocated.

I believe a child should be allowed to be upset while they are with a parent. Just being with them and acknowledging their distress empathetically can really help. The upset does not need to be fixed. It can just be allowed to run its course surrounded by support and understanding. Your daughter's mind is creating a map where upset leads to a big hoohah that gets her back to your ex. Why not give her a few experiences of upset leading to your love and support and ending in things being ok?

I think you did make a mistake when you withdrew your application to court. That is done now. It might be a good idea to spend a little time thinking about the faulty beliefs that lead you to make the mistake. Here are some to consider:

1) Thinking, despite the previous evidence, you could have a good outcome founded upon your ex's good will.
2) Relying upon your ex to be consistent with herself.
3) Exchanging an irreversible move on your part for a move your ex could reverse on a whim.

There is no point beating yourself up about this. You did not have the evidence you needed to write off promises of 'jam tomorrow.' If this experience has given you that evidence, it is exactly what you needed. I cannot see a way of you making progress on arrangements for your daughter unless you dehumanise your ex and make your moves more strategically.

In the next letter to your ex, I would be positioning for a return to court. Probably not explicitly and not immediately. Something as simple as proposing Friday to Monday every second weekend next term could give you a springboard for an application. What you write has little value aside from the picture you can create by referring back to it. Why not think about proposing the opposite of what your ex did in child-centred language rather than criticising her. Rob your ex of the devious moves she will make. The two weeks where your daughter stayed with you for several successive nights are still successes to be built upon. You could fall into the trap of writing negatively about those successes. It is your ex's job to make time with you into a negative. Don't do that job for her. Focussing on details of what your ex did will only make her switch methods and use up lines that might help in court.

You have come a long way since you first posted on this thread. Many would have fallen much earlier on. The main thing is that you are still in the picture, a much bigger part of the picture. Dust yourself off and get going on the new path.
 
Thanx Peanut and Resolute.

I never looked at it on the side of keeping my little one when she was that upset I was just so fixated on not wanting her upset and her hating me for forcing her to stay with me but now reading what you’ve written again that’s a mistake and I do need to be strong and just comfort her until she snaps out of it which I’m sure she would, also it wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t allowed the FaceTime calls as she was so settled and happy until that point ex just used 2 days of those to plant those seeds in her mind.

I’m aware that there’s nothing I can say to ex that will change her but I no longer am willing to just ignore the sly things she’s doing I have to challenge it and then take her anger for doing so. Narcissists cannot take being challenged but I have allowed this to go on for far to long.

I know what I wrote above isn’t a great email to send her but I wanted to put in exactly how I felt and that I knew exactly what she was up to at this point I don’t think it matters which way I go as she knows how to be clever with how she does it and play it like it’s innocent but I know exactly what she was doing and it succeeded.

I will be sending her something on Sunday it’s just how and what to write where it’s formal and makes it clear that I won’t stand for what is happening.

And it’s also clear that my little one can’t be open about me or express her happiness with me infront of her mum as last night she said she hadn’t been happy with me at all these last few days etc which I know isn’t true that is a very serious issue and shows what ex is doing.
 
no longer am willing to just ignore the sly things she’s doing I have to challenge it and then take her anger for doing so. Narcissists cannot take being challenged but I have allowed this to go on for far to long.

I know what I wrote above isn’t a great email to send her but I wanted to put in exactly how I felt and that I knew exactly what she was up to at this point I don’t think it matters which way I go as she knows how to be clever with how she does it and play it like it’s innocent but I know exactly what she was doing and it succeeded.

You have to do what you think is right. I suggest you try to remember that anything you give your ex will be used against you.

Please reflect on what you wrote above:

You want to be challenging and make her angry. That does your ex's job for her

You know it does not matter what you write but you want to use the letter as an outlet for your feelings. Why? What does offloading on your ex achieve for your daughter? Why is Sunday the deadline? Could taking more time to think things over be the right move?

Your next moves can either create a stairway to where your daughter needs you, or dig a hole for yourself. If you think pulling your ex over the coals will be a pathway to resolution, that is the right move. I have made a habit of writing off my first impulse as inappropriate for every situation my ex throws at me. It has served me well.
 
You have to do what you think is right. I suggest you try to remember that anything you give your ex will be used against you.

Please reflect on what you wrote above:

You want to be challenging and make her angry. That does your ex's job for her

You know it does not matter what you write but you want to use the letter as an outlet for your feelings. Why? What does offloading on your ex achieve for your daughter? Why is Sunday the deadline? Could taking more time to think things over be the right move?

Your next moves can either create a stairway to where your daughter needs you, or dig a hole for yourself. If you think pulling your ex over the coals will be a pathway to resolution, that is the right move. I have made a habit of writing off my first impulse as inappropriate for every situation my ex throws at me. It has served me well.
That’s a really good point Resolute and I thank you for your wise calm words.

I guess the main thing is I can’t just ignore what she has been doing but I do fully agree I can’t go off at her as it doesn’t help me in anyway.

I think that’s why I posted it on here to get views and also advice on what I should write.

I was only using Sunday as that is supposed to be my last day with my little one this week but I really don’t think I will get anymore time with her now just like I didn’t on my first week it’s like dejavu.

I am going to go back to court it’s just doing it the right way but sending a biff message to ex however that’s written and then putting it in.

I know what I say or do won’t change my ex considering it’s taken less than 3 weeks for her to revert back to her usual self but I know now I have to get help for my little one as the emotional damage being done to her has to stop.
 
I'm free this afternoon so I'll see if I can come up with some ideas what you can write.

I think the reason people struggle with narcs is because they can appear so normal to the outside world.
But remember:
They will never change.
It's all about what they want.
If they ever appear reasonable it's fake and for their benefit.
 
Dads provide comfort and reassurance just as much as
I'm free this afternoon so I'll see if I can come up with some ideas what you can write.

I think the reason people struggle with narcs is because they can appear so normal to the outside world.
But remember:
They will never change.
It's all about what they want.
If they ever appear reasonable it's fake and for their benefit.
Thanx Peanut.

I’m just at a loss now with everything.

I know I can’t go off at my ex and my post above was more me venting but I just don’t feel like I can just ignore it and say nothing.

Whilst to some it may seem what she was saying to her was innocent but I know it wasn’t it was designed to cause exactly what it did because she refuses to let go and just let our daughter be happy with both of us. And she also views her family well above me and mine and if my time impacts that she makes sure little one won’t come.

I do know I shouldn’t have took her home last night and I played right into my exs hands and I think that’s what affects me so much is I keep making the same mistakes so I’m not helping myself at all.

I’m due to pick her up at 12 today but I’m sat here upset and broken knowing the likely hood of her coming is next to zero and if she doesn’t come again this week I will get no time with her for nearly 2 weeks and that hurts so much.

Any help you or anyone can give in what to write to her is greatly appreciated as I do feel I have to send something to at least show that I’m not happy with what has happened.
 
An idea:

Bring the star chart with you and get her to put stars on for things she already did that were good. Maybe ask her what other stars she wants to get today.

If things do not go smoothly, isn't there a way you could put your foot down. "Mummy and Daddy have already arranged what is happening for the next few days so we need to go now. You are a big clever, girl and it will all be ok. We cannot change the arrangement."

I think some way must be found of overriding your ex's transfer of her battle with you onto the child.
 
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