Advice What can I do???

[DB2021]

Absolutely with you.

I just don’t think it makes sense to be like this…. Sounds like a funeral. I really hope in the near future if you don’t have an order to say leave court alone. You are back here and asking for help for a position statement as there are people on here with seriously good knowledge.

I suggest reading the entire NACCC website and focus on getting back in there, not next week but soon. You are 1/2 of your daughter’s responsibility right now. Don’t leave that.

Hi jafranks.

I completely get your view and passion about things given everything you went through believe me I take no joy in this situation.

But at present nothing I say or do will change things I have fought numerous judges and a corrupt biased SW who has already threatened me with Child Protection if I continue to try and fight my corner. Now whilst this sw would have to go to court to have me removed completely given how bad the courts have been to me so far I am petrified that if I continue I will be ordered out of my girls life indefinitely and that’s not something I’m willing to risk.

The contact centre was a no go from the start again sw argued against this despite me asking for it and so has ex and as Peanut has said the courts have made it very clear they will not force or make any order that says she must attend and given how she is towards me now even if my some miracle I got to one it would consist of me being spat at punched and told I’m the worst person in the world and it would also cause my little girl even more emotional harm which I’m not prepared to do. Yes that goes against everything a father is because I am not at fault at all in this but my ex has caused that much damage already I’ve now become the problem for my little girl and despite my best efforts no sw or judge was willing to listen they dismissed every argument I put forward and ignored every concern I raised. My ex lied through her back teeth and was believed instantly without any evidence and was able to claim things once and they were used as fact.

Whether I will peruse court again in the future honestly I don’t know and that’s not me being defeatist despite it looking that way it’s weighing up whether it’s the right thing to do for my little girl given the extreme pressure and abuse she is already receiving from a so called “perfect mum”(the sw’s and Courts view).

The more I fight the more pressure my little girl is put under by mum and the courts have shown me numerous times that they don’t care about my views or any evidence I may have so do I make the most difficult decision in my life and step away for now so my little girl is left alone to be a child? Or do I continue fighting and end up being a part of destroying her childhood and causing her unimaginable harm despite the fact all I am is a loving father? Yes that makes no sense to me either but that’s the position our family court system has put me in.

I’m sorry if you feel my posts and that of others are defeatist I’m just trying to navigate the worst thing that has ever happened to me whilst also trying to protect my little girl as best I can even if that means staying away.

I respect everyone’s views and take on board what you’ve said and believe me I understand your point and how passionately you say it aswell it’s not lost on me and whilst I may have taken the decision to step back now that doesn’t mean i won’t try again down the line.

 

[Resolute]

I totally sympathise with your sentiment jafranks. But there is a reason. DB has just exhausted every conceivable option without success. I think a new application without a significant change in context is liable to result in an order with S91 barring future applications. It seems vanishingly unlikely that the court willl come to a different conclusion without a significant change in circumstances. I guess most members agree with your points to some degree. But, imho, DB's decision needs to be pragmatic and informed by the reality of his case rather than by our ideals.

 

[Pj66]

"And that’s exactly what I will do there’s nothing that will stop me fighting not my I have breath in my lungs"

post number 21

Write to your mp, hire a pi, get that social worker removed, find a way to get an appeal through, get a child psych, get isw, transfer of residency

It's not over yet, you have options.

Take a step back and plan a different approach.

The end goal here should be transfer of residence and proof of PA, you are not going to get it with that SW.

I am really struggling to see how a judge has looked at the situation , and thought, "child doesn't want to see dad at all, so no appeal permitted." It's shocking

 

[Peanut 21]

Write to your mp - they're useless

hire a pi - to do what?

get that social worker removed - he's appealed against the SW and hit a brick wall

find a way to get an appeal through - he's tried!

get a child psych, get isw - he applied and was denied.

transfer of residency- this isn't as easy and common as it sounds. They weigh up the stress it will cause the Child. The mother puts on a wonderful mother show for the outside world. They only think of the agro short term this will cause and don't want to get involved.

I understand the dads getting frustrated with DBs situation and telling him to not give up. But there are times you need to change tact and rest before your next move. He's explained what he needs to do for his own mental and physical health at the moment. I think we all need to respect that.

 

[Peanut 21]

Read from points 8-11.
Reasons they don't change residency for alienation cases.

 

[DB2021]

"And that’s exactly what I will do there’s nothing that will stop me fighting not my I have breath in my lungs"

post number 21

Write to your mp, hire a pi, get that social worker removed, find a way to get an appeal through, get a child psych, get isw, transfer of residency

It's not over yet, you have options.

Take a step back and plan a different approach.

The end goal here should be transfer of residence and proof of PA, you are not going to get it with that SW.

I am really struggling to see how a judge has looked at the situation , and thought, "child doesn't want to see dad at all, so no appeal permitted." It's shocking

Hi pj66.

I get what your saying but sadly its not as easy as that.

1. ISW - Asked for dismissed by court.
2. Child Psych - Dismissed by court.
3. Remove SW - Isw application dismissed by court.
4. Appeal - Dismissed by court.
5. Transfer Residency - Only happens in rare cases and only when courts/sw recognise PA courts ignored evidence and dismissed this.
6. Hire PI not quite sure what they would bring.


This isn’t about giving up this is about being against an extremely shocking system that has enabled an alienator and put me in an impossible position. I’m damned if I do damned if I don’t.

I’m struggling to understand it also but that’s what has happened and when your against such a biased system there’s very little that can be done.

My outcome is not unique it will be happening today tomorrow and the next day to 1000’s of other fathers and that’s the biggest scandal for our country.

 

[Ash]

He had social services against him and the courts listen to social services. That can be a major issue. Most social workers know nothing about PA and are biased towards Mothers being the only thing really needed.

There are a number of PA court cases that have gone on for many many years and when they've finally got before a Judge who knows what he's talking about there are comments like "failure of case management in the earlier years", "failure to spot the parental alienation" and in a notable case, a Judge apologising to the Father but saying it was too late now - the kids were alienated. A transfer had been attempted but the kids were so alienated they just kept running away back to the Mother. I don't know if the right PA experts or interventions were used in this case but the transfer of residency failed.

This is an exceptional case and I don't want people to be disheartened. It is only exceptional cases that get reported usually - ones that have been in litigation for years.

There are a lot of alienated parents out there - some who will never give up and keep going back to court until something like this - where the Judge tells them to give up and that's more or less what happened to DB.

The dilemmas for alienated parents are - do they keep the child in the middle of the abusive situation being subject to court proceedings for many years - or do they give up to protect the child from the treatment inflicted by the alienating parent to keep them alienated (which can include terrorising, as well as brainwashing), when the alienating parent will stop doing that if the other parent gives up and goes away.

It's not a dilemma anyone should have to face as it's a rock and a hard place and whatever you do, the child gets damaged. I suspect the courts decided there was less damage leaving the child where she was and maybe thinking the alienating parent would never stop this.

It's wrong yes - they should have transferred residence. But they are shy of taking children away from Mothers, and there is just a complete lack of understanding as to how harmful alienation is - especially when social services say she's a good Mother.

Parental alienation #2: A sorry outcome

Parental alienation and a sorry outcome to a long running case which finished with the father having no contact at all due to parental alienation.

www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk

There are also a lot of unreported cases of residency being transferred to Fathers. But ultimately Parental Alienation is evil and clever in a machievellian harmful way. The courts will always put the welfare of the child first.

There are also subtle things to do with court proceedings like not allowing delay. As DB mentioned earlier, withdrawing an application is something the courts see very negatively sometimes.

I don't understand the decision either or not being given permission to appeal. But every case is different.

 

[Ash]

Just for anyone who wasn't aware of the situation - this wasn't for a first application. DB already had an order that stopped being followed. It was complicated by a previous social worker getting involved.

 

[Pj66]

On the other hand if you don’t nip some of these things in the bud they can drag on and become intractable so I think it’s important to raise them so the court has the picture from the outset. Most of those arguments I mentioned would be for a final hearing stage.

This is exactly what I was thinking for my hearing if it goes contested, nip it in the bud early. Any agreement by consent means nothing on court record about the shenanigans. Mother was outright telling me she hopes I'd walk away and then messaging people to suggest I wasn't the father and baby was already born.

My thoughts were that having something of that nature on court record off the bat would mean the seed is planted should it ever end up back in court.

The more I read into everyone story in here, the only mistake that can be made is to give an inch, or not nip it in the bud asap.

 

[Peanut 21]

The more I read into everyone story in here, the only mistake that can be made is to give an inch, or not nip it in the bud asap.

In theory yes, in practice not necessarily.
The other barrier here is the dad gets labeled aggressive, rigid, inflexible etc etc.
My partner was reasonable throughout his situation and the ex was unbudging.
Yet he was still labeled rigid by the psychologist involved. God knows what he based this assessment on.
I just hope in the future his children see this

 

[Resolute]

Whether the outcome is good or bad, I doubt anybody looks back without realising they would take different choices if they could start again.

We act with partial knowledge and limited understanding, success is often followed by the ground moving beneath us. It is impossible to act with hindsight. Unfortunately, hindsight tends to be better than foresight. This is the very reason it is so valuable to share our successes and failures on DWK.

If I could go back, I would:

Have a barrister at my second and third hearing

Focus all my energy on moving to the area of my kid's new school

Make one or two C2 applications


We often have such limited material and emotional resources at our disposal. Survival is the main aim and no small success.

 

[Peanut 21]

Agree Resolute.
It's a situation you learn as go along.
No-one gives you a handbook when you have a child called "The just in case you split up with the other parent and they cause agro guidebook" to use.

 

[Ash]

This thread is closed now. Feel free to start a new thread on various topics