Advice What can I do???

[Ash]

Seriously it's like they know your next move isn't it? I am sure your ex would realise, perhaps after a more formal text message, that you might apply to court again, so suddenly she's "allowing" your daughter to come.

I felt sad when I heard she didn't want to get out of the car. She will be struggling with having to go back to an environment where she may be questioned and hear you being rubbished, or be nervous she may get into trouble for being happy. Sometimes they can't verbalise things and it comes out as behaviour.

It's a very difficult thing to handle, when a child won't get out of a car and your own stress would be there too, in that you have to have her back by a certain time. Maybe be prepared for that in future, and try the gentle or humorous approach. Or ask her why she doesn't want to get out of the car.

These transitions can be hard for them - especially when she only gets such a short time with you.

She must be confused as well. Sometimes incited into hostility and then told it's ok to see the person you're supposed to hate?!

 

[DB2021]

Yeah it’s really tough because part of me thinks is it because she doesn’t want to go back or leave me given we don’t have a lot of time together.

I think that’s why I’m so disappointed that I didn’t handle it well I did try the humorous approach and gently approach first I always do but it didn’t work and your right I am nervous and under stress knowing she has to be back by a certain time.

But I also know that when she won’t get out car etc and I have to go to mum to get her it makes it look like I can’t control her.

 

[Resolute]

I was wondering about the car thing, wasn't sure if she was refusing to get out at the end or when she first went with you. I have had the same situation at handover for nearly three years. My ex encourages long handovers then tries to use that as me "challenging the boundaries of contact." I have done little gifts to be opened after handover as a way of encouraging. It is really tricky, my ex makes it so the only way handover could happen in a timely manner is if I push the child away. Then she writes to me asking that I ensure the child is "emotionally ready" for handover. If the child doesn't want to be with you, you are the problem. If the child does want to be with you, you are the problem.

The idea that your daughter not getting out of the car shows you cannot control her is interesting, wouldn't the same logic show that any failed handover to you is a bed reflection on your ex?

EDIT
Just to add, I have only used the little gift tactic once in a blue moon. A little treat to have at home or a card made for my ex. Something for them both that cannot be opened until they leave, very cheap or homemade.

 

[DB2021]

I was wondering about the car thing, wasn't sure if she was refusing to get out at the end or when she first went with you. I have had the same situation at handover for nearly three years. My ex encourages long handovers then tries to use that as me "challenging the boundaries of contact." I have done little gifts to be opened after handover as a way of encouraging. It is really tricky, my ex makes it so the only way handover could happen in a timely manner is if I push the child away. Then she writes to me asking that I ensure the child is "emotionally ready" for handover. If the child doesn't want to be with you, you are the problem. If the child does want to be with you, you are the problem.

The idea that your daughter not getting out of the car shows you cannot control her is interesting, wouldn't the same logic show that any failed handover to you is a bed reflection on your ex?

Exactly that Resolute.

I do feel like yesterday I made it seam like I was pushing her away and I really wasn’t and that’s the hardest part because considering what she’s already going through the last thing I want is for her to think that I just want her to go when I drop her off.

All of this just breaks me it really does and I’m so annoyed at myself for not handling it right as my daughter needs me to so she sees a different way.

Well yes I think it does show that but we all know they spin it in a way to shift it all onto us.

I just want to do everything I can to make it less stressful for my little one and I know I’m failing at that and that’s really tough.

 

[Peanut 21]

Don't beat yourself up too much.
With kids in this position normal parenting isn't possible.
How you acted yesterday wouldn't have been an issue if her mother was emotionally normal.
My partner has been accused of being abusive after normal boundary setting.
The slightest thing gets blown up.

Yesterday was a lesson learnt. Now you know better ways to approach the situation next time it happens.

 

[Resolute]

Exactly that Resolute.

I do feel like yesterday I made it seam like I was pushing her away and I really wasn’t and that’s the hardest part because considering what she’s already going through the last thing I want is for her to think that I just want her to go when I drop her off.

All of this just breaks me it really does and I’m so annoyed at myself for not handling it right as my daughter needs me to so she sees a different way.

Well yes I think it does show that but we all know they spin it in a way to shift it all onto us.

I just want to do everything I can to make it less stressful for my little one and I know I’m failing at that and that’s really tough.

I do not think you are failing at all. You have come an incredibly long way and the focus should be the two wonderful days you gave your daughter away from your ex's toxic narrative.

If it happens once and you see the pitfall to avoid, that is impressive. It shows the sensitivity and responsiveness your daughter needs from you. You have to find a way of facilitating handover without pushing your daughter away. Please update on here if you find it!

My attempts to facilitate the handover are not going well and I am loading my ex's gun as a result.

 

[DB2021]

It is so tough not to beat ourselves up given the amount of pressure and stress we’re all out under but I do know that I’m doing everything I can to make it better even if I do slip up now and again we are all human well most of us are.

I think the best way for me is to just be sensitive and speak calmly and lovingly even if it doesn’t work at least that shows her that I’m not angry or giving off that it’s her when I know it’s not.

I may have to go get her mum to come and get her but as long as I’m calm and saying the right things then for now that’s the best I can do.

 

[Ash]

Bribery can help "I know we haven't had much time together and I really would love you to be with me a lot longer but at the moment we just have this time, and Mum is expecting you back at a certain time so I have to take you back to Mum today. There will be other times we can have more time together. And if you're a good girl now, I'll get you a xyz"

I know it's not ideal, but it shows you care and bribery sometimes works.

I've done the stressy thing before too, if something has delayed us. And it's never a nice feeling knowing the time has ended with something stressy - but tomorrow is another day. You see her again today don't you? You can always say sorry and explain.

I think when you get overnights to and from school it will be easier. It's such a short time she has with you.

 

[DB2021]

Bribery can help "I know we haven't had much time together and I really would love you to be with me a lot longer but at the moment we just have this time, and Mum is expecting you back at a certain time so I have to take you back to Mum today. There will be other times we can have more time together. And if you're a good girl now, I'll get you a xyz"

I know it's not ideal, but it shows you care and bribery sometimes works.

I've done the stressy thing before too, if something has delayed us. And it's never a nice feeling knowing the time has ended with something stressy - but tomorrow is another day. You see her again today don't you? You can always say sorry and explain.

I think when you get overnights to and from school it will be easier. It's such a short time she has with you.

Yeah I tried to keep away from bribery just because I didn’t want her to associate her time with me with just getting something if that makes sense? But I do get maybe a little bit of bribing may help .

Yeah I’m picking her up from school today and I’d already thought of saying sorry and explaining things.

It’s the first slip up from me in quiet a while just got me down when I got home that’s all.

Yeah I know deep down I think some of it is she wants to spend more time with me and maybe that upsets her when we get home. The application is in just waiting for them to call to take payment as they sent it back as there was a couple of mistakes on it don’t know how I missed them.

 

[Resolute]

The apology is a great idea. She probably isn't used to getting apologies from your ex and I think it really empowers a kid when an adult holds their hands up. Thinking a little more, perhaps your daughter has become accustomed to showing love/loyalty to your ex by not wanting to go with you. This could be the method she has of showing you her loyalty when being handed over the other way.

I speak to my little one about our 'arrangement' and instill that it is our job to do as arranged. This often helps us get going on things we need to do.

Could you propose to your ex that she comes to the car and you stay in the car? You not getting out could make a smoother and clearer transition for your daughter. Another idea is to park a little walk away so getting out of the car is not the crunch moment for your daughter.

Sometimes we just have to choose between a rock and a hard place. I decided that in my situation an extended handover is better than finishing our time with rejection and negativity. I think its a situation without a perfect solution.

 

[DB2021]

The apology is a great idea. She probably isn't used to getting apologies from your ex and I think it really empowers a kid when an adult holds their hands up. Thinking a little more, perhaps your daughter has become accustomed to showing love/loyalty to your ex by not wanting to go with you. This could be the method she has of showing you her loyalty when being handed over the other way.

I speak to my little one about our 'arrangement' and instill that it is our job to do as arranged. This often helps us get going on things we need to do.

Could you propose to your ex that she comes to the car and you stay in the car? You not getting out could make a smoother and clearer transition for your daughter. Another idea is to park a little walk away so getting out of the car is not the crunch moment for your daughter.

Sometimes we just have to choose between a rock and a hard place. I decided that in my situation an extended handover is better than finishing our time with rejection and negativity. I think its a situation without a perfect solution.

Yeah I do say sorry to her when I know that I’ve slipped up because I want her to know that it’s never intentional.

The issue is at drop off not collection as I usually get her from school so ex isn’t around but even that has had major issues with I’ve mentioned previous.

It was just yesterday she really played up getting out the car to go inside her mums but I know I should have handled it differently and as long as things go okay today when I go to the school if there is an issue at drop off I’ll just handle it completely differently this time, and if it takes her longer to go in then so be it but I suspect if it does ex will mouth off if it ends up being after 6.

I just need more time with her than I get now especially through term time.

Court is a risk but it’s my only option to try and get a better order and more time so she can settle and have a consistent relationship with me as the order now just doesn’t work.

 

[Resolute]

The issue is at drop off not collection

That is what I thought.

Sorry if what I wrote was unclear.

 

[DB2021]

That is what I thought.

Sorry if what I wrote was unclear.

Actually it was me that miss read what your wrote Resolute so my apologies .

 

[Ash]

Getting out of a car and going can be a bit of "cold" end to time maybe. To expand on Resolute's suggestion about parking a bit further away from the house, you could maybe time it so you get there early enough to have a play in the park before she goes back to Mum's and then walk there with her. So she's not just getting out of the car and going - if that makes sense.

Personally I wouldn't ask ex to come to the car - the transitions can be even harder for the kids if both parents are there at the same time and they can't be themselves with either of you.

 

[DB2021]

Getting out of a car and going can be a bit of "cold" end to time maybe. To expand on Resolute's suggestion about parking a bit further away from the house, you could maybe time it so you get there early enough to have a play in the park before she goes back to Mum's and then walk there with her. So she's not just getting out of the car and going - if that makes sense.

Personally I wouldn't ask ex to come to the car - the transitions can be even harder for the kids if both parents are there at the same time and they can't be themselves with either of you.

Tbh today there was no issue at drop off she got out car happily and was talking to me to the door and outside so that was a relief.

She also wanted to come back to mine after we had been to park so I do think she struggles with only being with me for such a short space of time.

And we did speak about the holidays as when I had to say we can’t go back to mine she said can we tomorrow so that wasn’t nice having to say I’m not seeing her tomorrow but then we got into what we can do when she’s off school so that was nice .

All in all today was amazing happily came out from school and bar a small blip whilst at park she was her usual happy self.

 

[DB2021]

Hey all.

So ex received court paperwork today, she tried to call me 3 times this morning which I ignored as she only wants to speak about things on the phone where she can say what she wants leaving me with no proof of what’s been said.

I did message her saying I’m happy to discuss over text after advice from Ash but all I got back was it doesn’t matter I only think of myself and I’m lying.

Also just received this

“I thought you would have explained to her that she would have people speaking to her again. Dont worry I've told her”

Shows that she is discussing court with a 5 year old I’m guessing I can use this as evidence?

I didn’t know whether to reply or not so just wanted everyone’s advice

 

[Ash]

Yes keep it as evidence, although it's quite clever in that she doesn't give a hint that she might tell her anything bad. Just that some people would be speaking to your daughter again. But yes it does sound like she will have done it in a negative way.

I don't think that message needs a response. How could you tell your daughter anything when you hardly see her?! Hopefully the dust will settle in the next few days. Encouraging to hear an application come back so quickly.

 

[Resolute]

If you do not have a parenting app in place, I recommend corresponding by email only. A specific email to have everything in one place is a really good idea. Something like [insert child's name][email protected]. I wish I had done it earlier. The format continually reminds me what my messages are really about and it makes it so much easier to find what I need. Also means I can take time away from my ex's tirade when I need.

You can have another channel for time critical messages, e.g. a delay or an illness. I use WhatsApp and copy to email if it is anything significant.

Good move today, not speaking on the phone was a sound decision.

P.s. It is not necessarily the case that your daughter will be spoken to through these proceedings. At the same age my child was not. Your ex jumped the gun even if she did say things discreetly. Feels like spreading her anxiety/outrage to the child.

 

[DB2021]

If you do not have a parenting app in place, I recommend corresponding by email only. A specific email to have everything in one place is a really good idea. Something like [insert child's name][email protected]. I wish I had done it earlier. The format continually reminds me what my messages are really about and it makes it so much easier to find what I need. Also means I can take time away from my ex's tirade when I need.

You can have another channel for time critical messages, e.g. a delay or an illness. I use WhatsApp and copy to email if it is anything significant.

Good move today, not speaking on the phone was a sound decision.

P.s. It is not necessarily the case that your daughter will be spoken to through these proceedings. At the same age my child was not. Your ex jumped the gun even if she did say things discreetly. Feels like spreading her anxiety/outrage to the child.

I’ve said I won’t speak on phone only via text but my ex knows not to do that as she can’t deny what she says that way, she will play clever now hence no kick off when I dropped little one off and when I text asking why she called it’s was a short reply with not a lot in it apart from saying I’m lying.

I may raise the communication side at court though as never speaking to her on phone again about anything not that we speak much at all anyway which is a good thing.

Yeah I thought that only way they would is if they order another section 7 and only way I can see that happening is if ex makes accusations as last section 7 was glowing of me. So will actually end up being her causing it if it does go that way.

I’ll see what damage may have been done tomorrow as today little one came happily and we had a lovely time again . Obviously she was at school when she received the paperwork so couldn’t say anything until tonight.

Roll on xxth August I’m so ready for it.

 

[DB2021]

Guys some advice please.

How does a father cope with the feeling that there failing there child?

I’m seeing my little one again which is great but her moods swing so quickly like seconds and I just don’t know how to handle them.

I’ve tried everything I’ve seen on here and tbh today I snapped at her really loudly in the car I did apologise later as I hate shouting.

Once we got home she did calm down herself and we had a lovely time like we always do but I just feel like I’m failing her all the time because when her mood changes badly I just can’t help her or do anything she refuses to talk to me or open up about why she is angry etc and then the guilt I feel for shouting at her eats me up also I just feel like I can’t win.

I know she loves me and when I have shouted she forgets about it 10mins later but I struggle for hrs after she’s gone home feeling like a failure and that shouting just makes me a rubbish father.