Advice What can I do???

[Ash]

A 5 year old child would only do that if someone has told them to do that and/or they have been poisoned to believe very bad things about you. She is aligning with the Mother - taking sides - because she's been manipulated into it. You've seen it before. It's like the ex snapping her fingers and showing how she can make the child do whatever she wants, and showing you she has the power to do so. The power to not alienate the child and say - you're going with Dad tonight. Or the power to make the child reject you.

 

[Ash]

So she asked you to change nights and you declined? So she uses the child as a weapon.

 

[DB2021]

So she asked you to change nights and you declined? So she uses the child as a weapon.

No that’s the thing I didn’t decline I said of course no problem as it didn’t affect me and I wasn’t losing a day just moving it a day later and I was still supposed to spend time with her today but then all this happened when I picked her up.

I see her wed/Thurs after school during term time but this week I agreed to wed/fri to be flexible for her with what she had going on.

 

[DB2021]

I know this is alienation it’s obvious as there’s no other reasonable explanation.

I’ve been fair and patient hoping she would just give up and let me have a relationship but it’s clear now she won’t so I’m done being the nice guy and will do whatever necessary to keep my daughter in my life.

I don’t mean I’m going to do anything daft or kick off at ex I’ll be respectful as I’ve always been I just mean I’m no longer afraid of challenging her and if she wants to flip her lid so be it.

Her reaction to being called out will show me exactly what’s going on.

 

[Ash]

She's tricked you as Friday isn't a breach if it isn't court ordered. You agreed to change nights and she went back on the agreement. But the messaging confirming the changed nights will be good evidence of how she's frustrating the order.

Because she has done that it is best not to agree to any changes again. I came across this too.

 

[DB2021]

She's tricked you as Friday isn't a breach if it isn't court ordered. You agreed to change nights and she went back on the agreement. But the messaging confirming the changed nights will be good evidence of how she's frustrating the order.

Because she has done that it is best not to agree to any changes again. I came across this too.

But that’s the thing she hasn’t really.

As I still got to pick her up today but our daughter had clearly been instructed to behave a certain way.

I’m still going to turn up Friday to get her but obviously I don’t expect her to come given how things were today.

But I do think she got me to change the day to suit her and ruined todays time for the same reason.

 

[DB2021]

She's tricked you as Friday isn't a breach if it isn't court ordered. You agreed to change nights and she went back on the agreement. But the messaging confirming the changed nights will be good evidence of how she's frustrating the order.

Because she has done that it is best not to agree to any changes again. I came across this too.

But given how things are I won’t agree to any more changes again.

She’s just been very clever in how she has manipulated everything for her own gain.

As she is always going to claim it’s not up to her to get our daughter to spend time with me and that her behaviour has nothing to do with her

 

[DB2021]

So as suspected she didn’t come tonight.

She wasn’t angry at me like Wednesday and did have a grin on her face but just wouldn’t come.

Mam and her partner kept saying she has to tell me she doesn’t want to come.

Definitely now I firmly believe there trying to push me out so they can be the happy little family.

So should I send an email reminding her of her responsibilities? And I’m the email should I mention I’m really concerned about what she is now saying to me?

I have to do something now because I know if I don’t I’ll lose her.

I know emailing her will make her flip but I know I can’t worry about that anymore and I have to do all I can for my little girl.

I suspect she may come next week but this is the big issue I get a little while of great time and then it goes sour again which to me just makes no sense.

Can anyone advise what to do?

 

[Ash]

Hi - sorry I've only just seen this. So Wednesday was court ordered night and a breach, but tonight isn't a breach because you swapped nights is that right? I would see what happens next week. Another breach and you send the email and then apply. What she seems to be doing is what my ex would do. Breach and then stop breaching, then do it again. This is why application to vary would be better.

 

[DB2021]

Hi - sorry I've only just seen this. So Wednesday was court ordered night and a breach, but tonight isn't a breach because you swapped nights is that right? I would see what happens next week. Another breach and you send the email and then apply. What she seems to be doing is what my ex would do. Breach and then stop breaching, then do it again. This is why application to vary would be better.

That’s okay Ash I know your busy.

Yeah so Wednesday was kind of a breach given how my daughter was and the fact she went straight home so I didn’t get the time I should have had with her. And last night I think is still a beach as it was an agreed swap but I get from a court point of view it wouldn’t be classed as that.

I am going to see how it goes next week and go from there but I do think court is the best option now as I can’t keep letting it go well for a little bit then this as it’s not good for either me or my little girl and if I don’t challenge it it’s not going to stop.

When I send the email do I bring up the things she’s said to me or leave that out?

And going to court to vary what should I be asking for?

 

[Ash]

Friday wouldn't be classed as a breach but her manipulative behaviour would be noted. Wednesday would still be classed as a breach because your ex allowed it to happen. Her excuse will be - nothing to do with me, child decided herself and refused to go. But that won't wash. Hang fire to see what happens next week.

 

[DB2021]

Friday wouldn't be classed as a breach but her manipulative behaviour would be noted. Wednesday would still be classed as a breach because your ex allowed it to happen. Her excuse will be - nothing to do with me, child decided herself and refused to go. But that won't wash. Hang fire to see what happens next week.

Yeah that’s what I thought.

Tbh I’m more annoyed her new partner was there speaking to my daughter saying u need to tell him you don’t want to go neither of them offered any encouragement at all just said above and tell him why you don’t want to go. So my daughter said it was because she wanted to play in the pool with her sister.

I’ll see how it goes Wednesday and let you know and go from there

 

[Ash]

So you mean when you went to collect on Friday, ex and her partner were there to collect and her partner said "tell him you don't want to go?" That is showing your daughter that a) she should do what they say and b) she has a choice.

The point is Friday was a swapped day and not court ordered so they were taking advantage. Make a diary note about what happened though and email it to yourself.

As I think applying to vary could be better than enforcing - with the history. The more stuff you have to go back with the better. I was also advised this and it turned out to be correct even though it was very tough letting more things happen. This incident shows manipulation of the order and encouraging the child not to come.

 

[DB2021]

So you mean when you went to collect on Friday, ex and her partner were there to collect and her partner said "tell him you don't want to go?" That is showing your daughter that a) she should do what they say and b) she has a choice.

The point is Friday was a swapped day and not court ordered so they were taking advantage. Make a diary note about what happened though and email it to yourself.

As I think applying to vary could be better than enforcing - with the history. The more stuff you have to go back with the better. I was also advised this and it turned out to be correct even though it was very tough letting more things happen. This incident shows manipulation of the order and encouraging the child not to come.

Yeah they were at the door when my ex brought her out she had a grin on her face so I know she was playing up for them as it shows that.

But it was ex first saying you need to tell him you don’t want to go then she went in and her partner came to door and said same then said tell him why as that’s the nice thing to do.

Yeah it’s what there trying to do make it seam like it’s my daughters decision so they can hide behind that makes my blood boil.

Yeah it is very tough to handle but I’ve got past the worry of upsetting ex and walking on eggshells. I’ve been nice and respectful and it’s got me nowhere so now I’ll do whatever I have to to make sure they don’t ruin my relationship with her and if she kicks off so be it.

She will try and ring me if and when I send email but I’m going to say if you want to discuss it it’s either email or text as she uses phone so she can speak to me like dirt etc knowing I can’t prove that so by taking that away she will have to write her vile insults etc in messages which if can prove

 

[Batdad]

If it turns out that the order isn't enforceable, then it would need an application to vary instead of a C79 enforcement.

To have a warning notice added to your child arrangement order, you would need to file a c78.
Most arrangement orders after 2018 have a warning notice as part of the order.

 

[DB2021]

To have a warning notice added to your child arrangement order, you would need to file a c78.
Most arrangement orders after 2018 have a warning notice as part of the order.

I’m sure mine already has the warning notice on it, only got my order in Nov 22

 

[Ash]

It will have a warning notice, but sometimes the wording of the order itself makes it unenforceable.

I thought you were collecting from school? Presumably her swapped nights deal was to pick up from home on the Friday - not good.

 

[DB2021]

It will have a warning notice, but sometimes the wording of the order itself makes it unenforceable.

I thought you were collecting from school? Presumably her swapped nights deal was to pick up from home on the Friday - not good.

Yeah because I’m at work on Fridays.

It won’t happen again if she asks again it will be a no lesson learnt.

Tbh I know it’s going to end up back in court as she won’t stop I may get another few weeks of great time but that won’t last it hasn’t since the start

 

[Ash]

I agree, but build up a pattern of disruption. And maybe say the odd thing via email as well for evidence. For example after Friday you could email the ex saying something like

"I am disappointed that I agreed to change the court ordered Thursday night to Friday night last week, at your request, only to find that when I came to pick xxxxxxx up both your partner and yourself told her to tell me she didn't want to come. It is a parental responsibility, under the court order, to encourage a child to go with the parent. However this was not a court ordered night but an agreed swapped night so I am assuming you realise that was not a clear breach, but hardly builds trust for future arrangements. Wednesday night was however a breach of the order.

Please confirm that xxxxxxxxx will be with me, as per the court order, on Wednesday and Thursday this week. I also request an additional night on x day to make up the missed night last week. Please confirm if this is agreed.

I also confirm I will only be communicating over child arrangements by text or email from now on and not via phone calls"

With any luck she'll reply arguing that Wednesday wasn't a breach if xxxxxxxxxxx decided to come to Mum's by herself and not go with you. Which then confirms that she allowed that and allowed her to come home to her and not say to her - you're going to Dad's tonight, I'll text him to come and pick you up.

What you'll be doing then is building up evidence of all the frustration of the order and the ex encouraging your daughter to do something else. You also have the earlier stuff. So if next week goes ok and then something similar happens again then you've built up a few examples of what she's doing so it's not just seen as a one off or two off. It's a pattern.

Yes don't answer any phone calls.

 

[Ash]

If you send something like that and she then breaches next week out of retaliation then you put the application in.