Don;t think that - you haven't messed up. You'll just know what to do next time. They do go stir crazy sitting in a car sometimes. Five year olds need the distraction rather than the attention to the behaviour though. It sounds like you did fine.
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Advice What can I do???
- Thread starter DB2021
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She uses it to watch kids YouTube she’s addicted to it but I’ve never had an issue getting it back from her when we arrive anywhere she’s always been good with that.
At park though she was ignoring me so I said no phone in car and I stuck to it this time which I never usually do as I do want to teach her that certain behaviour can’t happen if she wants the good things etc.
I guess her telling me she’s doing it because her mam has told her to shows me that she’s not doing it because I’m not a good dad even though she did say that today and that I’m nasty for telling her off but ex’s partner isn’t when he does.
I just want to do whatever I can to make it easier for her and not have her feel like she’s being punished for it when it’s clearly not her fault.
I guess the best thing for me is to just not say anything when she does go into that mood and to try and distract her but if it doesn’t work to just let her calm down herself which she does and she does say she’s calmed down once she has.
it’s just the instant switch from happy and having fun to so angry that I don’t understand but I can’t imagine how conflicted she is and how hard it is for her.
I just hope she still wants to come tomorrow and that I haven’t made things worse for her
Reward charts help as well. So rather than - you can't have the phone if you're naughty, it's "you can have an extra 10 minutes on the phone if you're good". The actual chart you can have tick boxes and stickers and they get one every time they've done something good or done somehting on time (like brushing teeth etc) - after so many ticks they get a reward. Whether that's an extra 10 minutes on the phone or a finger of fudge or whatever.
I started one with toilet training initially and carried on with one till my son was about 8 - a slightly different version. To say it was brilliant was an understatement - the kid was perfect lol! In bed on time, dressed on time - ready to tick himself off on the chart.
I think you can buy reward chart packs
One like this is good. You can decide what the goals are. And at the bottom say what they get after so many stars. Then it starts again. They just love things with stickers and achieving things.
I started one with toilet training initially and carried on with one till my son was about 8 - a slightly different version. To say it was brilliant was an understatement - the kid was perfect lol! In bed on time, dressed on time - ready to tick himself off on the chart.
I think you can buy reward chart packs
One like this is good. You can decide what the goals are. And at the bottom say what they get after so many stars. Then it starts again. They just love things with stickers and achieving things.
That is a good idea I had thought about something like that but kinda didn’t end up doing it as up until last cpl of days things were pretty much great.
She would have the odd tantrum but nothing major and hadn’t mentioned her mam telling her to behave badly when she’s with me.
Part of me yesterday thought is she just making things up but then I can’t see how a 5 year old would think of something like that in fact I’m petty sure they can’t but I may be wrong.
I know now I can’t handle things like I did today whilst I didn’t get angry or shout as I never would with her I do need to not engage with it as that will only make it worse for her.
She would have the odd tantrum but nothing major and hadn’t mentioned her mam telling her to behave badly when she’s with me.
Part of me yesterday thought is she just making things up but then I can’t see how a 5 year old would think of something like that in fact I’m petty sure they can’t but I may be wrong.
I know now I can’t handle things like I did today whilst I didn’t get angry or shout as I never would with her I do need to not engage with it as that will only make it worse for her.
I think the main thing is, it's hard to handle and a bit head messing - so just use distraction, act normal and upbeat - make her laugh even. And try not to analyse it. She will be telling the truth but she won't know how to process it. Main thing is you don't say things like that to her and she sees you as Dad who is fair and fun. But reward charts helped me a lot for years.
Yeah the mental strain it has on me is horrible.
That’s my biggest flaw is I do analyse it all the time and I tear myself up over it like I am a bad dad and she doesn’t love me etc. can’t remember the last time she said it back to me.
Ohhh I never would say things like I’m always positive about her mam and will continue to be as I know that’s what’s best for her and hopefully she will see that further down line that I was never like that.
I’m going to do the chart or at least give it a go.
Make it like a fun new activity. And think of a reward she would like. You can have different ones. 10 mins extra on the phone for a star that day for whatever. After 5 stars - maybe £1 or some chocolate? My son used to like getting the £1 and then going to buy a Kinder Egg.
Just a small update after yesterday.
Today she came happily and didn’t have any issues all day she was very happy well until I dropped her off then she had a strop because I told her to put her shoes on to walk to the door
the smallest thing can set them off.
Today has helped after feeling low yesterday as no matter what her mam is doing it’s clear she loves being with me and enjoys our time so i just need to focus on that and see that my little one has her own mind and isn’t being swayed by her mam completely.
Today she came happily and didn’t have any issues all day she was very happy well until I dropped her off then she had a strop because I told her to put her shoes on to walk to the door
the smallest thing can set them off.Today has helped after feeling low yesterday as no matter what her mam is doing it’s clear she loves being with me and enjoys our time so i just need to focus on that and see that my little one has her own mind and isn’t being swayed by her mam completely.
I know I’d love to have that but she has said she doesn’t want to stay at mine so I’m a long way off that. But I’m also happy to wait for her to be comfortable enough for it. Sadly there will be no help from mum to help ease her anxiety about it so it’s the long game.
I know she doesn’t want to leave me she always shows that when I say it’s time to go and when I say I’m not picking her up the next day I might not get the “I love you’s” but that shows me how she really feels
.Keep going, mateI know I’d love to have that but she has said she doesn’t want to stay at mine so I’m a long way off that. But I’m also happy to wait for her to be comfortable enough for it. Sadly there will be no help from mum to help ease her anxiety about it so it’s the long game.
I know she doesn’t want to leave me she always shows that when I say it’s time to go and when I say I’m not picking her up the next day I might not get the “I love you’s” but that shows me how she really feels
Actions speak louder than words - you say she says she doesn't want to stay at yours - because she's been told to say that. But she tries to express what she really wants by refusing to put her shoes on to leave.
I don't think it should be left too long because it will get too hard and tedious for her having short times with no real normal life. I thought overnights were supposed to have started a while back. What does your order say?
If you wait, it will never happen because Mum won't agree and your daughter will say what Mum has told her to say while secretly feeling she'd like to stay longer. She depends on you to get it sorted. 5 year olds don't decide these things - parents and adults do.
I don't think it should be left too long because it will get too hard and tedious for her having short times with no real normal life. I thought overnights were supposed to have started a while back. What does your order say?
If you wait, it will never happen because Mum won't agree and your daughter will say what Mum has told her to say while secretly feeling she'd like to stay longer. She depends on you to get it sorted. 5 year olds don't decide these things - parents and adults do.
I honestly don’t think it’s just that. She’s never stayed out away from her mam since she was born so it’s not just mine she won’t stay at.
I do get that I need to work on that though which I have started by mentioning it and saying how nice it would be to spend more time together.
I’m just mindful of putting to much pressure on her with what her mam is doing so I kind of feel conflicted if that makes sense.
It’s not in the order as school pick ups weren’t so it would be a case of me asking mam and seeing what she says. I think overnights will probably end up being a court issue which obviously something I want to avoid.
I do get that I need to work on that though which I have started by mentioning it and saying how nice it would be to spend more time together.
I’m just mindful of putting to much pressure on her with what her mam is doing so I kind of feel conflicted if that makes sense.
It’s not in the order as school pick ups weren’t so it would be a case of me asking mam and seeing what she says. I think overnights will probably end up being a court issue which obviously something I want to avoid.
It's the kind of thing that you might be able to sort with mediation but if your ex doesn't want it, she's hardly going to encourage it. A mediator might explain to her that it's in your daughter's best interests to have that quality time and that experience of Dad being there at bed time and waking up to have breakfast with Dad and having another special room that's hers - so she gets the best of both worlds.
It's not like you're a stranger and it's perfectly normal for kids to have a sleepover at school or at a friend's house or with a grandparent - it's not scary it's exciting because they feel safe and it's normalised. It needs your ex to encourage it and normalise it and she's not inclined (seeing as she's said you're "not family"!).
So yes maybe it will end up having to be court ordered but you never know - if she knows you'll get it at court, she might cave with mediation. A good mediator could just say - how about the odd time so she gets used to it. For your ex, once overnights start, it means she loses some control as the main parent so she isn't going to be keen. But it's not realistic to sustain a relationship long term with just day visits.
Even though you say she's not ready - when is a child ever ready? Ok I can see giving it a bit longer, but she is already indicating she wants more flexibility than set times to go back.
My son actually used to object about only having one night at my house midweek - he said he just gets there and settles in and has a nice time and then he has to get up and go again next morning (to school) and he wanted two nights so he could have a normal day in between - ie me see him off to school without it being a complete goodbye for days because I'd pick him up again that night for a second night. That is the ideal - two consecutive midweek nights. I never did get them. We all had to put up with the unnatural whirlwind "life in 18 hours" type thing midweek. So the week-emds were where he really relaxed because he had two consecutive nights and a full normal day in between.
All it takes is Mum to say - special treat this week-end, you're having a sleepover at Dads and a film night with popcorn. And she'd think yay! The main thing is that your house is familiar.
I can't believe she's never had a sleepover at school? My son's primary school had one every year - all the kids slept over one night and it was a huge treat.
Do you actually have a bedroom for her at your place? If you do it could be an idea to start making it into "her room" - her space - even if she's not staying over. Making it into a kids room with some posters on the walls and cuddly toys and a nice duvet cover and a toy box maybe. Somewhere she can go and play when with you and have a lie down. Or you can both go and play - a good place to spread lego out all over the floor.
Gradually she'll know it's her room and she might say she'd like to sleep there some time. Or she could go there for a nap (or both of you go there for a nap) after a big lunch eg. Make the room a special place. You can get these fluorescent stars you can stick on the walls and ceiling. Kids like sticking things on walls! You could ask her if she wants to draw or paint something on one wall - a special picture. Or - when she does some drawing or painting at yours, say - we'll put your picture on the bedroom wall.
It might help drip feed the idea of the normality of it - that she has another room with her own things in she can stay in when she wants.
Then you could maybe pick a particular occasion. Like your birthday. And say to the ex - it would be nice if daughter could come overnight for your birthday as a special treat. Then you're not asking for a regular routine but a special occasion. Once it's happened, the ice is broken and she will have the experience of waking up in a home with you and having breakfast together and watching kids tv over breakfast etc. Normal stuff.
There is no reason it couldn't work if the ex was co operative. Like agreeing a good night call with Mum before going to sleep and you waiting with her until she's asleep etc.
But the timing probably isn't right for regular overnights with this bereavement thing in the background. Maybe in the summer?
Thanx ash that’s great advice and insight.
Tbh I don’t know if she has stayed away from overnight like grandads etc I wouldn’t be surprised if she has and it’s just ex’s way of trying to control it.
I do have a room which is hers and have already started planning getting it to a little girls room so hopefully by summer that will be sorted. I’m going to get it all finished so it’s a surprise one day for her.
I am going to keep bringing it up with my little one especially when she shows that she doesn’t want to leave etc and try and ease her anxiety over things. And when she does say yes I’ll message ex and say she wouldn’t like to stay over and see what the response is. I’ll know which way I’ll have to go that way.
I am pretty certain it’s ex that is fuelling her worries so she can keep that last little bit of control but I won’t stand for that for long I just haven’t wanted to overwhelm my little girl given how much has happened and the things that are being said to her it’s clear it’s affecting her.
The primary school thing I’ve not heard of and they haven’t had one yet but then she hasn’t been at school anyway yet so maybe it’s something that will come.
Sadly there will be no support from mum she’s made that abundantly clear so it’s something I’ll have to keep fighting for and working with my little one to show her that staying over sometimes gives her what she actually wants.
The thing is you can't put her in the middle and allow her to choose. If she says yes she wants to stay to you and you tell Mum she's said yes, she'll get into big trouble and then won't dare say such things again. It's better done non verbally - if that makes sense. Like have the room as her room and use it and don't discuss sleeping over. If she says one day - maybe I could sleep here tonight/sometimes - then you'd have to say - I'll see if I can arrange that with Mum. It is far too big a burden for a child to have to make the decision if one parent isn't up for it. The key is to keep them out of the middle - and that's one of the main purposes of court orders - to remove the pressure from the child and both parents have to just follow the court order - and courts do usually order overnights. Is there anything in the order at all about agreeing progression to overnights?
So don't keep bringing it up with her - she's only 5 - they just do what parents tell them to do and that needs both parents on the same page for it not to be stressful for her. Just do it more subtly. I'd start on the room now and let her choose some things. And say this is for when you ever come and stay over here. As a kind of a vague possible future thing.
So don't keep bringing it up with her - she's only 5 - they just do what parents tell them to do and that needs both parents on the same page for it not to be stressful for her. Just do it more subtly. I'd start on the room now and let her choose some things. And say this is for when you ever come and stay over here. As a kind of a vague possible future thing.
Ahhh yea that’s a great point didn’t look at it like that.
And I know not to tell my ex what she tells me as I know it will cause her more issues at home.
I’ll focus on the room and go from there and just let her do things in her own timez
Thanx ash invaluable advice again it’s really appreciated.
It's tricky stuff to handle. You know your daughter and maybe having a conversation with her is the right thing - I may be wrong. As long as she doesn't feel pressurised. So if you did say to her at some point, maybe you'd like to stay over and she says yes - then you could say - I'll see if I can arrange it with Mum. The thing is she has probably been well primed to always say no so asking isn't always the best thing anyway. What's better is if you can say - Mum and I have decided you'll stay here one night a week. Then she'd just accept it. It's the fact that your ex refuses to co parent reasonably that means these things need court ordering. I guess it would affect Child Maintenance as well wouldn't it? If you had overnights. That's often an incentive for an ex to prevent overnights.
I would try for the - making the room into hers a bit at a time and just say it's for when she's able to come and stay over. And then look to trying to arrange an overnight as a one off for a special occasion with the ex maybe.
I would try for the - making the room into hers a bit at a time and just say it's for when she's able to come and stay over. And then look to trying to arrange an overnight as a one off for a special occasion with the ex maybe.
Yeah that’s what I want to avoid the pressure on her as she’s already under so much from mum and I want to be the opposite and the consistent one.
She’s very head strong so I know it’s probably going to take some time to get her to feel comfortable on staying but I like the idea of slowly building her room up not just for her to stay but it’s also a nice thing for us to do together and get her involved in having it like she wants not me just doing it. But of a sly way of saying I want her to stay without actually saying it.
Tbh I would keep paying what I do even if I had overnights we’ve never gone through cms always just paid what we agreed and I pay for things myself like school trips etc.
It’s a slow burner I think and then seeing what ex is like when she does say she wants to stay and going from there.
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