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Advice What can I do???

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The only thing I'd say there is - ideally you would have some evidence to attach to a C1A, which isn't always possible. I did submit a C1A - I didn't mention the term Parental Alienation but I described the behaviours and the effect on my child and hinted at PA by saying his behaviour was "alien" and hostile but he would slip out of it and return to normal. I did actually have some evidence to attach, a social services closure report. It didn;t say a lot but it did indicate that my ex was very negative about me and the SW had no issues with me.
 
I am very proud of how far I’ve come I’ve over that time and feel especially lucky given some of the other dads experiences.

I am of that view myself and I’m expecting to have to go back to court at some point but I am hoping it doesn’t come to that all be it a slim hope.

obviously my work patterns don’t help the situation and there’s no way to change them I’ve already been down that route but getting say the Sunday aswell would break it up meaning I’d only 2 days between seeing her but sadly I doubt that’s something she will agree to willingly.

I was thinking of doing the packages again not every time but a couple of times a month as she loved them.

That’s a good idea about maybe getting things in place ready for court rather than waiting as tbh I have no idea where to start or how to word an application.

The transfer of residency angle though that’s a very very last resort as much as I dislike my ex I don’t want to take her away from her mum like that people may think that’s stupid but I’m very much of the opinion that it need not come to that.

I will try everything first before considering applying for that hopefully if it goes back to court a judge warning her that could happen would be the shock she needs to just get on with her life and stop the attempts of ruining my relationship with our daughter.

But going down then harm route and asking for assessments is definitely something I’d look at next.
Agree and really you would have needed to try other things first. It's rare for a court to actually transfer residence without something like psychologists reports recommending it. And in some cases they have only made a shared care order. That is a good start though as that takes away sole residency from the ex and makes you equal. It doesn't have to be 50/50 for shared care - it can be 60/40 or 70/30. If there were still issues after a shared care order, you're then in a much stronger position to have a change of residency - because it isn't a change of residency then - you already have residency - shared with the ex. IT would then be a case of taking residency away from the ex. ie curb her power - but it wouldn't mean she didn't spend plenty of time with your daughter. Same cases it's lives with Dad on a "near 50/50 basis" so that could be 8 nights with you, 6 with Mum.
 
I was thinking of doing the packages again not every time but a couple of times a month as she loved them.

I think just once in a while would be good. You said it felt good to do. Also, you would avoid your daughter associating the gesture with her rejecting you. Fingers crossed for the school hols.
 
The thinking behind it from the courts is - if the Mother is being obstructive and not following court orders then making a shared care order is an incentive for her to follow orders in future - because by not following the original order she has lost something - sole residency - the label of "parent with care". With shared care (formerly shared residency) you are both the parent with care and equal in every way. She will not like losing that superior status and it is an incentive to follow an order. However that doesn't mean she might not stop trying to alienate. And that is something you will have to hope she stops doing.

In severe cases of alienation - where the children refuse to come entirely - kick, scream and say they hate the parent - and with psychologists report, it can mean a change of residency, reunification therapy and no contact with the ex for a period of time until the child has recovered and had the therapy and returned to normal. That is an extreme situation. But the one thing that makes it become extreme is if there is a long absence with a child refusing to come. You're aware of that and wouldn't leave it too long if you found your daughter wasn't coming.
 
Agree and really you would have needed to try other things first. It's rare for a court to actually transfer residence without something like psychologists reports recommending it. And in some cases they have only made a shared care order. That is a good start though as that takes away sole residency from the ex and makes you equal. It doesn't have to be 50/50 for shared care - it can be 60/40 or 70/30. If there were still issues after a shared care order, you're then in a much stronger position to have a change of residency - because it isn't a change of residency then - you already have residency - shared with the ex. IT would then be a case of taking residency away from the ex. ie curb her power - but it wouldn't mean she didn't spend plenty of time with your daughter. Same cases it's lives with Dad on a "near 50/50 basis" so that could be 8 nights with you, 6 with Mum.
Yes I think we’re a long way off that but I do think I need a better order as what I have no whilst okay is not great and easily manipulated.

Given my ex hasn’t done what a lot of women do and just ignore the orders all together I think having a good judge and them really warning her would be enough.

Ahhh I didn’t think of it that way resolute so that’s a great idea.

All this advice and support is invaluable and I can’t thank you all enough.
 
I'm not being negative but I need to add, your approach was mine too.

I did apply for a transfer of residence but was opposed to the children moving and suggested instead suspended transfer instead as a kind of 'notice' that if she didn't comply with the court's orders, transfer would happen. That approach didn't work for me. But that is just what happened in my case
 
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I'm not being negative but I need to add, your approach was mine too.

I did apply for a transfer of residence but was opposed to the children moving and suggested instead suspended transfer instead as a kind of 'notice' that if she didn't comply with the court's orders, transfer would happen. That approach didn't work for me. But that is just what happened in my case
No I know your not Chi and I value your view and opinions and given you’ve been through it it’s good advice.

I may be making the wrong choice to start with but I’m not ruling it out if I have to go that far then I will I just think my situation may be slightly different and a severe warning I do think would be enough as she wouldn’t risk having our daughter taken from her.

I don’t believe it will ever come to that but I certainly won’t leave it to long to fire that bullet as they say if she doesn’t realise very soon that her behaviour has to stop.
 
Just a small update,

Pick ups from school still going well 😀.

Today she skipped out of school really happy and telling me what she wanted to do today and tomorrow she even mentions what days I’m picking her up to.

And the best part when I dropped her off I said “I love you” and for the first time in months she said it back I’ve waited so long for her to say that again
 
That's great. If she mentions what days you're picking her up then that means her Mum has told her when it's going to happen. Lets hope that continues. Perhaps the social worker has had a word with Mum.
 
Just a small update,

Pick ups from school still going well 😀.

Today she skipped out of school really happy and telling me what she wanted to do today and tomorrow she even mentions what days I’m picking her up to.

And the best part when I dropped her off I said “I love you” and for the first time in months she said it back I’ve waited so long for her to say that again
Love this ❤️
 
Thanx everyone 😀.

I mindful to not get to carried away as I’ve had good times before but my worry that she may be off again given I hadn’t seen her for 6 days didn’t come and it did seam like a huge step forward.

the talking about things like it’s the new routine was amazing and the “I love you” a huge boost to my confidence and strength.

Keeping going and fighting with everything you have is the only option any of us should take. Our kids need us that’s the most important thing.
 
Hi all.

Just after some advice.

I’m still seeing my little one and last 2 days she’s come happily as she has for the last few weeks.

Just the last couple of days when I’ve had her she’s had 3/4 times where she’s really gone mental and been really angry I’ve asked her each time what’s causing her to behave this way as she says some horrible things etc and she’s been saying her mammy has told her to misbehave when she’s with me.

Most of the time we’re together she’s happy and has lots of fun but these 30 or so mins episodes are really concerning.

I’m not going to speak to her mam as one if she is saying these things it may get worse and 2 even if she isn’t she refuses to communicate she just a talks down to me and belittles me so no chance to have an adult conversation.

I’m just after advice on what to say when my little girl says she’s doing this because of her mam as I won’t bad mouth her mam no matter how much I’m provoked but I have no idea what to say to try and help her.
 
It's horrible what your ex is doing to try and make your daughter reject you. This is what happens with an alienating ex. You're right you need to find ways to handle and manage it. The first advice is usually don't get into a dialogue with the child about it. It makes them more conflicted because they have loyalty to both parents. It's good that she told you what the ex said so you understand what is going on. It's not working - your daughter isn't rejecting you, but she is carrying out instructions without understanding why. This is why the time is so important - if she's with you, you can handle things and gradually she will learn some coping strategies. If you don't see your daughter, then this kind of thing becomes more and more ingrained.

No you can't discuss it with the ex because - well it's too bizarre isn't it when she is deliberately creating this. So you have to manage the situation.

I've had a similar situation and it's very stressful and worrying and you can't quite be yourself as you have to tread so gently.

The first thing to think about is what is happening to the child. The child is suffering - they are under stress. So you do right not to get angry. Is it worse on arrival and then improves the next day?

The main thing is - distraction. If she comes out with a hostile or provocative statement (and you need to be prepared for this), you don't react - you say nothing, you listen for a second and then you carry on as if nothing has happened and use distraction. Change the subject, act and sound normal - go to the other room to get some food or whatever, or say - it's time we were going out to get some things. Or even put the TV on. They can't keep doing it if you don't react. Then she will settle down and her mind will become her own again as you do something hands on or watch something together. It might mean getting out of the house more if domestic routine doesn't make it easy for her to relax.

Some lines you can develop that aren't directly criticial of the ex. I don't know which ones would apply in your situation, but these were ones I had to use at various times

"Mummy must be mistaken"
"I'm not sure why Mummy would say that" (if she asks)
"People do things differently in different houses - in this house we are nice and kind to each other".

I had a few confrontational things "Mummy's better at this than you". To that you raise an eyebrow and agree - it really works! Yes I am sure she is - now lets have some ice cream. Change the subject - move to a different room - whatever. It disarms them because they expect you to react or be upset or angry.

Other lines are - be empathetic. This one was given to me by a parenting professional and it worked well. "I know things must be hard for you - are you coping ok". You're not addressing the behaviour or what she is saying - you are just showing you understand she is struggling and show you care. I'm not sure how well that one would work with a 5 year old.

There's also a book I'll link that helped me cope - I carried it round in my pocket I was so desperate.

Basically there is collusion. A 5 year old doesn't understand that but it's collusion about Dad - maybe she is making nasty jokes about you or saying bad stuff about you and then saying - lets show Dad this and you be badly behaved with him. I'm just guessing, but basically your ex is inciting this behaviour in a child - to get at you. And it's harmful.

The main thing right now is - she is there with you. I found it can wear off in 24 hours and they become a normal happy child again. Is she nervous about looking happy before she goes back?

This kind of thing is very difficult to deal with as it's hard to prove what's going on which is why so much of the help for handling alienated children is about managing the behaviour and teaching critical thinking.

Being with you is the most important thing because it's a place of normality and she is away from the toxic influence.

Have a read of this book though - it's a quick easy read - short chapters that can be read on their own so you can dip in and out. the Kindle version is the cheapest but I found with the paper copy I went through underlining things and writing in the margin - so I could keep going back to it and reminding myself what was going on.

The author is an expert in PA. The title of the book isn't very appetising but it's all about how to manage the behaviours when the ex is trying to alienate the child.

 
When do these 30 minute or so episodes happen? When she first arrives? My son used to come and literally parrot a load of foul mouthed lines and sound like an alien. A couple of hours later he was back to normal. It's like they have been programmed to do something - they;ve done it and done what they were told and then they can go back to being a normal kid again.
 
When do these 30 minute or so episodes happen? When she first arrives? My son used to come and literally parrot a load of foul mouthed lines and sound like an alien. A couple of hours later he was back to normal. It's like they have been programmed to do something - they;ve done it and done what they were told and then they can go back to being a normal kid again.
There’s no set time for it.

When I pick her up she’s fine she was this morning came straight out and was happy and was for about 4hrs she had a small episode whilst playing upstairs so I walked out and left her then she came downstairs and was fine.

Next one was at the park she was absolutely fine having fun I said 5mins darling and we need to go so we can go to macdonalds which she’s said okay then when I said let’s go she just changed totally then sat in car she was off with me for ages said I’m nasty because I wouldn’t give her my phone as I didn’t because of what she was saying and I just agreed with her when she said things.

I think I’ve messed up a bit today as I didn’t react angrily to her but I did speak to her about it and said it hurts etc and I’m trying my best.

Definitely need to learn to not give it air time and to just change the subject but that is difficult sometimes as when she’s like that it doesn’t matter what I do it doesn’t stop it she just calms down herself eventually.

I do feel like I’m making things worse with it all as I let her have my phone in the car all the time and I get her macdonalds etc but when she’s like that I say well no more phone etc but then I always do get her it because I know deep down this isn’t her and I don’t want to punish her for something that isn’t her fault.

Breaks my heart all of this because I just feel like I’m failing her so badly by not being able to handle it and not knowing how to behave when she’s like that.
 
Actually reading what you’ve put again I really do feel like I’ve messed up big time today.

I sat in car for about 15mins reacting to what she was doing not angrily or having a go at her but I didn’t ignore it or not say anything I did say that what she was being told was wrong and that I love her no matter what happens etc.

But looking back I probably made things so much worse which now makes me worry about tomorrow.

I don’t want to make things harder for her by not being able to handle the situations when they arise.

Haven’t felt this low in a long time because now I can’t get out my head that she’s back at her mams thinking bad of me
 
The phone seems significant. Does she actually use it as a phone or just for playing games? Some of it may be her age as well. My son was terrible at 5. Uncontrollable rages out of the blue. Kicking! And yes they can get a bit addicted to gadgets. Giving him my phone a lot became an issue - firstly it could ring, secondly they might see your emails or texts - it's amazing how savvy they are. She could even have been told to turn the tracking on while you're out!

My solution was to get my son an ipod touch. So it was like he had his own phone but it wasn't actually a phone. I don't know if they still make them but you can pick them up quite cheap second hand now!. It's basically an iphone - but no phone. Which means it only works with wifi for online things but some apps and games can be downloaded.

However he was a bit older than your daughter when I got that/ He had the vtech camera first - and that was a real distraction - he wanted to do video diaries wherever we went and they have masks etc to take funny photos. Plus they have the odd game built in. One or the other might be good. So she has something of her own.

They still have tantrums when they have to come off it again - the key is keep them busy and worn out! Spent half my life in the playpark.

The Vtech stuff is really good. It also sells well second hand too.

 
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