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My Story - As it Happens
- Thread starter MagicJ
- Start date
I've gone against the grain here and decided to mention the Mediation and give it a chance.
I know that a DAB costs about 5k, assuming we both get one its 10k out of pocket or more if they opt for a solicitor led Barrister, money that could be spent better on the kids.
I'll gauge the situation fully when they respond, if she comes to Mediation and we can actually resolve the issues great.
I pray that there is still some sensibilities across the room but I'm prepared for the experience here to be right!
So... sorry to report, you were all right.
The response back from their solicitor and the tone set by her, didn't focus on the children and the importance of having both parents in their lives and how to reach agreement in that.
Instead it reiterated their attempt at removing me from the house voluntarily, attempts to slander my reputation by painting me as a historically absent father now trying to score points at the detriment of the 100% primary carer.
They even went further to suggest I would try to squirrel assets away and they would seek action to stop that, at my expense - odd given I have nothing to my name bar the house.
Frustrating really, if I thought she could parent them successfully on her own and the kids would be happy I'd move out tomorrow but this shows her inability to think beyond herself.
I had thought mediation might work but negotiating from 100/0 on one side and 50/50 on the other whilst you do the above isn't really a negotiation!
I've now resigned myself to the fact that this will take time to sort and get pretty messy, really feel for my kids, had hoped we could at least get enough common ground to be able to have a united front and tell them together so we could minimise the impact of such a change for them.
Any signposting on how to handle breaking the news to KS2 kids on your own would be useful background reading
Ta.
The response back from their solicitor and the tone set by her, didn't focus on the children and the importance of having both parents in their lives and how to reach agreement in that.
Instead it reiterated their attempt at removing me from the house voluntarily, attempts to slander my reputation by painting me as a historically absent father now trying to score points at the detriment of the 100% primary carer.
They even went further to suggest I would try to squirrel assets away and they would seek action to stop that, at my expense - odd given I have nothing to my name bar the house.
Frustrating really, if I thought she could parent them successfully on her own and the kids would be happy I'd move out tomorrow but this shows her inability to think beyond herself.
I had thought mediation might work but negotiating from 100/0 on one side and 50/50 on the other whilst you do the above isn't really a negotiation!
I've now resigned myself to the fact that this will take time to sort and get pretty messy, really feel for my kids, had hoped we could at least get enough common ground to be able to have a united front and tell them together so we could minimise the impact of such a change for them.
Any signposting on how to handle breaking the news to KS2 kids on your own would be useful background reading
Ta.
Trying to explain this to kids without agreement with your ex is a minefield. If you tell the kids anything they are very likely to speak with their mum. Mum is then likely to be outraged and the solicitor will present you as having involved the children in issues that should be between adults. Following that, mum will hypocritically tell the children things about you. Children over 8 are liable to have their "wishes and feelings" assessed at some point. This is time for mum to get negative memories in their heads.
I suggest you start anticipating double standards and dirty tricks. For example, the solicitor was plainly point scoring re. primary carer at the very moment they accused you of point scoring.
My biggest regret is not taking a loan I was offered of 15-20k for my final hearing. I was in the right and had plenty of evidence to show that. I was indignant at spending so much money I did not have and couldn't imagine the dirty tricks I had to handle in court. Also, I was on a high from two hearings that went in my favour as Litigant in Person. Now I know what a massive disadvantage LIP's are at. The cost to get through Family Court represented is absurd. But, it is not as high as the cost of failure.
Have you got the application in? Get in first, it gives you an advantage because your barrister will likely be the one writing up orders.
Your ex is clearly signalling she will go for an Occupation Order and make allegations of abuse. Perhaps you should think about applying for a prohibited steps order to stop the kids' school from being changed and stop them being removed from the family home by her. You can even apply for an occupation order of your own, regulated occupation by both parties.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you are in an extremely vulnerable spot and time is not on your side here.
p.s. I am so sorry to hear we "were all right", there is no satisfaction in hearing another family is going down our well-trodden road.
I suggest you start anticipating double standards and dirty tricks. For example, the solicitor was plainly point scoring re. primary carer at the very moment they accused you of point scoring.
My biggest regret is not taking a loan I was offered of 15-20k for my final hearing. I was in the right and had plenty of evidence to show that. I was indignant at spending so much money I did not have and couldn't imagine the dirty tricks I had to handle in court. Also, I was on a high from two hearings that went in my favour as Litigant in Person. Now I know what a massive disadvantage LIP's are at. The cost to get through Family Court represented is absurd. But, it is not as high as the cost of failure.
Have you got the application in? Get in first, it gives you an advantage because your barrister will likely be the one writing up orders.
Your ex is clearly signalling she will go for an Occupation Order and make allegations of abuse. Perhaps you should think about applying for a prohibited steps order to stop the kids' school from being changed and stop them being removed from the family home by her. You can even apply for an occupation order of your own, regulated occupation by both parties.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you are in an extremely vulnerable spot and time is not on your side here.
p.s. I am so sorry to hear we "were all right", there is no satisfaction in hearing another family is going down our well-trodden road.
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Thanks for the response Resolute, I think you're right w/r the explaining it individually. Unfortunately they have been clear about trying to get me out the house & there has been no mention at all about how this would be explained to the children.
I haven't got it in yet, the MIAM said they wouldn't issue it until they had spoken to the other party and made an assessment of whether or not it was viable - however I thank you for explaining WHY it is important to have first mover advantage in this process.
It is unlikely schools will move or she will attempt to move the children, we are in a good school catchment there have however already been changes made to children's clubs, the crux of it being that the changes are fine but I am crystal that they will not be done without my agreement.
Ultimately I agree, I am in a vulnerable position.
I haven't got it in yet, the MIAM said they wouldn't issue it until they had spoken to the other party and made an assessment of whether or not it was viable - however I thank you for explaining WHY it is important to have first mover advantage in this process.
It is unlikely schools will move or she will attempt to move the children, we are in a good school catchment there have however already been changes made to children's clubs, the crux of it being that the changes are fine but I am crystal that they will not be done without my agreement.
Ultimately I agree, I am in a vulnerable position.
It may be a trigger if the mediator contacts your ex. Could prompt her solicitor to use the mediator in their pocket for a sign off right away on grounds of DV.
You could withdraw consent for current mediator to contact ex and tell them you require sign off. If they are difficult, you can go for a 'Court'/'Urgent'/'Fast Track' MIAM. It can result in the court requiring you to justify your approach, but you have invited your ex.
There are mediation companies that refuse to contact ex and will just sign the certificate if that is your preference. There are others who see your MIAM as the door being opened for upsell and will not sign away the chance of revenue from your case. Looks like you have the latter.
You could look at the terms from the present mediator and find small print that shows they should sign you off on request.
I will pm you a guide from a company.
I am not saying what you should do, that is for you to decide. Just laying out options.
EDIT
A side note to keep in mind. Once proceedings start, it can become very difficult to get data relating to your kids from services - gp, school... If there is data that would show you have been involved, you should make the Subject Access Request(s) ASAP.
You could withdraw consent for current mediator to contact ex and tell them you require sign off. If they are difficult, you can go for a 'Court'/'Urgent'/'Fast Track' MIAM. It can result in the court requiring you to justify your approach, but you have invited your ex.
There are mediation companies that refuse to contact ex and will just sign the certificate if that is your preference. There are others who see your MIAM as the door being opened for upsell and will not sign away the chance of revenue from your case. Looks like you have the latter.
You could look at the terms from the present mediator and find small print that shows they should sign you off on request.
I will pm you a guide from a company.
I am not saying what you should do, that is for you to decide. Just laying out options.
EDIT
A side note to keep in mind. Once proceedings start, it can become very difficult to get data relating to your kids from services - gp, school... If there is data that would show you have been involved, you should make the Subject Access Request(s) ASAP.
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Yes, I've taken your last point on board and now already have this is place - GP, DENTIST, SCHOOL.
Let's see how the next 2 weeks pan out!
once you unleash the C100 - you will end up eating one gigantic horrible shit sandwich hopefully they won't make you pay for it, if you are putting in a C100 think long and hard about domestic abuse and whether you have suffered any in the relationship, if you have evidence then I would use that and apply for legal aid she will be doing it if she has not done already, at least you will get the majority of it paid for, rather than worrying about money....
We can only take the steps we make with the information we have at hand and our own principles to guide us.
I love my kids and they know that, whatever games the other side wants to play, there is nothing that will change my wish for them to get the best out of life.
Its sad that I couldn't work it out but I left for their sake and mine, to be the best Dad, I have to be the best me first.
Can't get LA, I'll make mistakes along the way, I'll learn what I can from here and other Dads I meet along the way.
At some point the kids will grow up and see the woods from the trees.
Thanks for the share.
Here is a part of what makes the nightmare so many of us are enduring such a terrible bind:
"No smoke without fire"
Looking at separated families from the outside, it seems obvious that the parents who moan about not having access to their children must be at fault in some hidden way. Is is easy to think:
"This couldn't happen to an innocent party"
"The law is just"
"Decisions would not be made without evidence"
As I entered the family court process, I thought my case would be different because I was the primary carer, services had seen me with my child, social services and police had never been involved with the family, I was DBS cleared and in a responsible job, I was the one talking about the child's needs/interests...
I expected a different outcome because of my principles and the evidence. This was me being complicit in the "no smoke without fire" idea. Unconsciously, I was assuming that those who went before me were in some way at fault and that in my case fairness would prevail.
Admittedly, others have had much worse to deal with than me, and I am grateful for the degree of fairness I did achieve. But, the system that decides our children's futures is not to be relied upon. Misrepresentation and dirty tricks are the currencies in which our children's futures are traded. It is a travesty, I believe it will come to light and reform will be achieved. In the meantime, I am not convinced that fairness and decency are always our best guides.
All,
Just an update:
I attended Mediation, had my MIAM with a Solicitor Mediator.
This was an interesting experience, it was mainly the female mediator telling me how, against the other avenues, mediation was the best. When I questioned the fact that any agreement wasn't binding, she then explained how difficult it was to get the courts to seal any agreement due to their policy of non-intervention. When I mentioned what I thought was objectively fair in relation to the children, she didn't hesitate to tell me that what I think is fair as a dad isn't relevant.
The MIAM completed, STBX was sent an email to her own MIAM, she opted to 'think about' for a week
Thankfully I was given the option end the Mediation & receive my signed Page 9, which I didn't hesitate to take.
I have submitted the C100 via the Solicitors directly to court via email with an appended Section 5b
The C100 form was done on paper as is recommended by the Forum however as my Solicitor submitted, they were able to email to the court.
I spent quite a few days going backwards and forward to iron out the Section 5b, really big thanks to @Ash for spending quite a bit of time on it with me before I was comfortable that it portrayed what I wanted, albeit, it ended up being 1 1/4 pages long - don't think that's an issue but we will see.
The latest correspondence between Solicitor's is focussed on voluntary departure from the household & finances
It is unfortunate that there is no consideration by the STBX on how to manage the children through the process, none whatsoever.
There is however plenty of focus on my assets, my spending, my potential to squirrel away finances etc, so clearly money is everything.
I've had a tough time the last 2 weeks as I've struggled with keeping myself focussed
It's been difficult to avoid being despondent when I dwell on the possibilities of how successful we could be to support the kids versus the reality of how it will pan out, namely, I will have to support them emotionally through the journey whilst STBX will at best stand aside or worst just be putting the kids in the middle of her emotional response with the fact I am divorcing her.
Counselling & Support
It's helped to have been able to finally get to the point of submitting the C100 & also I have been seeing a counsellor for talking therapy.
I've also re-aligned my support network so I am less reliant on the Solicitor for specific types of advice and more reliant on the network and the forum
Next Steps
I now need to start to prep for what comes next childcare court wise as already outlined in the forum & also think about how i'm going to handle the Financial stream of this process.
So this is where I've got to so far!
Just an update:
I attended Mediation, had my MIAM with a Solicitor Mediator.
This was an interesting experience, it was mainly the female mediator telling me how, against the other avenues, mediation was the best. When I questioned the fact that any agreement wasn't binding, she then explained how difficult it was to get the courts to seal any agreement due to their policy of non-intervention. When I mentioned what I thought was objectively fair in relation to the children, she didn't hesitate to tell me that what I think is fair as a dad isn't relevant.
The MIAM completed, STBX was sent an email to her own MIAM, she opted to 'think about' for a week
Thankfully I was given the option end the Mediation & receive my signed Page 9, which I didn't hesitate to take.
I have submitted the C100 via the Solicitors directly to court via email with an appended Section 5b
The C100 form was done on paper as is recommended by the Forum however as my Solicitor submitted, they were able to email to the court.
I spent quite a few days going backwards and forward to iron out the Section 5b, really big thanks to @Ash for spending quite a bit of time on it with me before I was comfortable that it portrayed what I wanted, albeit, it ended up being 1 1/4 pages long - don't think that's an issue but we will see.
The latest correspondence between Solicitor's is focussed on voluntary departure from the household & finances
It is unfortunate that there is no consideration by the STBX on how to manage the children through the process, none whatsoever.
There is however plenty of focus on my assets, my spending, my potential to squirrel away finances etc, so clearly money is everything.
I've had a tough time the last 2 weeks as I've struggled with keeping myself focussed
It's been difficult to avoid being despondent when I dwell on the possibilities of how successful we could be to support the kids versus the reality of how it will pan out, namely, I will have to support them emotionally through the journey whilst STBX will at best stand aside or worst just be putting the kids in the middle of her emotional response with the fact I am divorcing her.
Counselling & Support
It's helped to have been able to finally get to the point of submitting the C100 & also I have been seeing a counsellor for talking therapy.
I've also re-aligned my support network so I am less reliant on the Solicitor for specific types of advice and more reliant on the network and the forum
Next Steps
I now need to start to prep for what comes next childcare court wise as already outlined in the forum & also think about how i'm going to handle the Financial stream of this process.
So this is where I've got to so far!
Well done! Sorry the mediator was difficult but at least you got signed off and the application. It can be demoralising being spoken to like that but keep positive - that's just one professional.
Try not to let the solicitors letters get to you. Maybe put them to one side for a day and clear your head. You don't have to rush to respond - let them wait. Hopefully your child arrangements process underway now will help. Don't feel pressured into anything or rushed to reply to anything. Glad you're getting some counselling. It helps keep a perspective.
Try not to let the solicitors letters get to you. Maybe put them to one side for a day and clear your head. You don't have to rush to respond - let them wait. Hopefully your child arrangements process underway now will help. Don't feel pressured into anything or rushed to reply to anything. Glad you're getting some counselling. It helps keep a perspective.
Thanks @Ash , I'm now trying to navigate how handle communication, when and where is best and whether any action I take can have an impact on S7 etc
For example, I'm planning on taking the kids overnight on Fridays every other weekend to see their grandparents moving forward which is one night more than they usually do.
Should I just do it given those weekends me and the kids spend out the house anyways or should I send a BIFF
If I do the BIFF and STBX responds negatively how would I handle it then.
For example, I'm planning on taking the kids overnight on Fridays every other weekend to see their grandparents moving forward which is one night more than they usually do.
Should I just do it given those weekends me and the kids spend out the house anyways or should I send a BIFF
If I do the BIFF and STBX responds negatively how would I handle it then.
I'm not sure. Technically it would need to be by agreement. But as you're still living at the house, then you'd be just taking them to stay with grandparents and it's not exactly like a parenting schedule. If the STBX says no I don't agree to that, that could be tricky. While you're still in the house, maybe it would be better to be a bit more casual about it and not put anything formal in writing right now. And just say you're taking the kids to their grandparents on those particular days. It's more likely to be accepted. So don't actually say it will be every other week-end. Just whenever that time comes around say - taking the kids to GP's again this Friday. I'm not sure how she could stop you really. If she was difficult and said no I have something planned this Friday night, you could then say - ok I'll take them Saturday night then.
I'd keep it casual while you're still in the house.
I'd keep it casual while you're still in the house.
In terms of what you say to the children when you have them, you could say something like "both me and your mum love you just the same. Sometimes mums and dads have boring adult things they need to sort out. But it nothing you have to worry about."
I'm sure someone can word it better. But just keep it short and sweet. Hopefully they can see dad isn't blaming mum and you're being fair and stable.
I'm sure someone can word it better. But just keep it short and sweet. Hopefully they can see dad isn't blaming mum and you're being fair and stable.
All,
Quick advice, if my STBX is still using the children to run messages is it worth a BIFF to reiterate that it is not good practice.
Something like:
Hi. I would appreciate it if you can try & make an effort to stop running messages between us using the children.
As adults we are able to communicate directly......
Not sure what else I can put
Quick advice, if my STBX is still using the children to run messages is it worth a BIFF to reiterate that it is not good practice.
Something like:
Hi. I would appreciate it if you can try & make an effort to stop running messages between us using the children.
As adults we are able to communicate directly......
Not sure what else I can put