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Family Court Cafcas- Advise
- Thread starter wassaw123
- Start date
It's fine, I've linked it before! It has everything you need to know about appeals
Shame it's got such a title because it applies to everyone.
Great stuff - so they've accepted the appeal?! Really pleased to hear that.
You can appeal any hearing but there is a time limit. It's only 7 days after an interim hearing but it's 21 days after a final hearing. It might be possible to submit an out of time appeal but it might also depend how out of time it is. As jafranks says - the Temper course is not a Respect or Dapp equivalent course but it can help your argument if appealing a decision to show you have done a course. It really depends on each case and what led to the DAPP being ordered. Presumably after a fact find hearing.
The other thing (and it's in that link) is that some appeals need permission to appeal. If the case was heard by magistrates, you don't need permission to appeal. If the case was heard by a Judge, you need permission to appeal - they might decline.
Not sure if this is helpful or I’m just trying to share my experience to others this could help.
If it wasn’t for Ash to say appeal. I wouldn’t of… mostly because I didn’t think I could or have anything I could appeal against. A simple google search for a simple person like me or the majority of us usually do when we have a question we result in google, which says “you can’t just appeal a decision you do not agree with”. Which I naturally took as final. I’ve appealed and it definitely isn’t ‘final’… albeit for now. I have an opportunity to address what my gut told me was not right, fair or even practical. Because my order and your directions is completely unjust and impossible to progress within. Which is harmful to the child(ren) for so many reasons. I would consider appealing it just because now (after many days of pain and wanting to give up) I have an opportunity. Which I didn’t think I could have. I realise now it’s timescales of things that make you realise there is an end (wether you get what you want or not). DAPP currently has no timescales for us which results in the complete unknown. Which really hurts. My appeal now gives me another timescale of possibilities or a chance for change to see my child - wether it works in my favour or not I will deal with that at the time.
This probably sounds cheesy. But clearly many knowledgeable heads on here with great advice. I would say appeal and have an opportunity to change directions which are actually impossible to progress due to the ceasing of a DAPP. Cafcass or otherwise should not be advising this full stop at the moment which Cafcass’ website even states. Alternatives yes, but not that specific course. Because it means the complete unknown on time of progression.
If it wasn’t for Ash to say appeal. I wouldn’t of… mostly because I didn’t think I could or have anything I could appeal against. A simple google search for a simple person like me or the majority of us usually do when we have a question we result in google, which says “you can’t just appeal a decision you do not agree with”. Which I naturally took as final. I’ve appealed and it definitely isn’t ‘final’… albeit for now. I have an opportunity to address what my gut told me was not right, fair or even practical. Because my order and your directions is completely unjust and impossible to progress within. Which is harmful to the child(ren) for so many reasons. I would consider appealing it just because now (after many days of pain and wanting to give up) I have an opportunity. Which I didn’t think I could have. I realise now it’s timescales of things that make you realise there is an end (wether you get what you want or not). DAPP currently has no timescales for us which results in the complete unknown. Which really hurts. My appeal now gives me another timescale of possibilities or a chance for change to see my child - wether it works in my favour or not I will deal with that at the time.
This probably sounds cheesy. But clearly many knowledgeable heads on here with great advice. I would say appeal and have an opportunity to change directions which are actually impossible to progress due to the ceasing of a DAPP. Cafcass or otherwise should not be advising this full stop at the moment which Cafcass’ website even states. Alternatives yes, but not that specific course. Because it means the complete unknown on time of progression.
An appeal can absolutely be the right recourse to correct an error dependant on the circumstances of each case.
In this case I feel confident it would succeed.
Permission to appeal and the substantive appeal itself can sometimes be heard on the same day, during the one hearing.
In this case I feel confident it would succeed.
Permission to appeal and the substantive appeal itself can sometimes be heard on the same day, during the one hearing.
Hi fellas.
Sorry to jump on this one.
I'm potentially facing a similar situation.
CAFCASS have stated in a further report (after their section 7) that if I am found to be given a sanction during an upcoming misconduct investigation (being investigated for threats to cause damage to my exes parents house, over the phone, when she took our 3 month old baby with no discussion)
This was dealt with criminally and found no case to answer.
She appealed that, not successful.
No FFH was ordered due to the allegations being so low risk.
Now cafcass are jumping on this internal investigation And stating if I am given any sanction (even management advice) they want me to do a high risk domestic abuse course before I can move to unsupervised. They haven't named a course but I'm assuming it's going to be a DAPP? - She's effectively said that I should apply back to court once this course has been done and I've demonstrated meaningful change....
I had a review hearing today, and the Judge wants to wait for this misconduct investigation outcome before making any further directions....
Sorry to jump on this one.
I'm potentially facing a similar situation.
CAFCASS have stated in a further report (after their section 7) that if I am found to be given a sanction during an upcoming misconduct investigation (being investigated for threats to cause damage to my exes parents house, over the phone, when she took our 3 month old baby with no discussion)
This was dealt with criminally and found no case to answer.
She appealed that, not successful.
No FFH was ordered due to the allegations being so low risk.
Now cafcass are jumping on this internal investigation And stating if I am given any sanction (even management advice) they want me to do a high risk domestic abuse course before I can move to unsupervised. They haven't named a course but I'm assuming it's going to be a DAPP? - She's effectively said that I should apply back to court once this course has been done and I've demonstrated meaningful change....
I had a review hearing today, and the Judge wants to wait for this misconduct investigation outcome before making any further directions....
Hi
I can only speak from my Experience but I asked the question to cafcass direct with regards to what dapp course to do
I had the following email response from them
At cafcass (in the absence of a DAPP provider) we do not recommend specific courses, rather we Recommend that work is undertaken in relation to domestic abuse, it is up to the client to choose the course
I have enrolled on the temper course that was suggested which is run in two location’s Birmingham and London
Hope this helps
I can only speak from my Experience but I asked the question to cafcass direct with regards to what dapp course to do
I had the following email response from them
At cafcass (in the absence of a DAPP provider) we do not recommend specific courses, rather we Recommend that work is undertaken in relation to domestic abuse, it is up to the client to choose the course
I have enrolled on the temper course that was suggested which is run in two location’s Birmingham and London
Hope this helps
Hat's off Wassaw for your persistence and doggedness. This is not acceptable at all and CAFCASS and the courts must pull their fingers out and provide some sort of guidance on how to keep an application for an order moving in the abscence of the DAPP debacle, not just tell the applicant to abandon ship and forget about their child.
If you're in this situation, keep on at them. If other courses are enough to demonstrate meaningful change and how much your position as your child's father means to you then there's a solution.
If you're in this situation, keep on at them. If other courses are enough to demonstrate meaningful change and how much your position as your child's father means to you then there's a solution.
Yes the Dapp not available now.
I have found children's services and cafcass an absolute shambles when it comes to courses.
Last year they told my partner to do another parenting course called The Nurturing Parent (something like that). When he googled it there was an old course from about 6 years ago. Cafcass had never heard of it. He logged on to an old Triple P course which he retook this year. The latest cafcass woman had never heard of it. So not only do they recommend obsolete courses, they don't even know about some courses.
I have found children's services and cafcass an absolute shambles when it comes to courses.
Last year they told my partner to do another parenting course called The Nurturing Parent (something like that). When he googled it there was an old course from about 6 years ago. Cafcass had never heard of it. He logged on to an old Triple P course which he retook this year. The latest cafcass woman had never heard of it. So not only do they recommend obsolete courses, they don't even know about some courses.
Effectively you could find a course run by a circus and if questioned on why you picked that one say "cafcass told me to choose one of my choice". They're too vague.
Push back goes without saying but as you say, you've done it so it's ticked off.
A very interesting read on the DAPP situation:
transparencyproject.org.uk
Where’s me DAPPs? (the end of perpetrators’ programmes)
(Excuse the title for this post. The writer is from Bristol.) When a father who is involved in proceedings concerning his child has been found to have perpet
transparencyproject.org.uk
Hey,
Yes I’m awaiting my appeal hearing in couple weeks and one of my main arguments is for the directions they gave me which was only a DAPP. Cafcass’ specific words to the judge. Nothing else is considered as they are not respect accredited… obviously everyone’s story is different and advisor. The judge went with Cafcass… so to simplify my case - no progressive arrangements with my child for infinity…
I’m also doing the ‘temper’ course.
Cafcass’ freedom of information response to a few of my questions out of interest. ‘They should not recommend (that dapp) as of June 2022’. And ‘there is yet to be an alternative advised by the ministry of justice’
Yes I’m awaiting my appeal hearing in couple weeks and one of my main arguments is for the directions they gave me which was only a DAPP. Cafcass’ specific words to the judge. Nothing else is considered as they are not respect accredited… obviously everyone’s story is different and advisor. The judge went with Cafcass… so to simplify my case - no progressive arrangements with my child for infinity…
I’m also doing the ‘temper’ course.
Cafcass’ freedom of information response to a few of my questions out of interest. ‘They should not recommend (that dapp) as of June 2022’. And ‘there is yet to be an alternative advised by the ministry of justice’
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Hmm. That article does mention the situation, but seems more concerned that not enough DAPP referals were made based on the number of domestic abuse accusations (funny old thing as accusations may be false). ie it seems biased and more complaining that courts must be making unsafe orders if there are no DAPPS taking place. What it doesn't say is that Dads are NOT getting anything more than indefinite supervised because there is no DAPP course available. I do feel this site quite often has a bias towards Mothers. Which isn't surprising perhaps based on who some of the contributors are (which no longer seems to be publicised).A very interesting read on the DAPP situation:
Where’s me DAPPs? (the end of perpetrators’ programmes)
(Excuse the title for this post. The writer is from Bristol.) When a father who is involved in proceedings concerning his child has been found to have perpet
HI all, id like a bit of advise if possible.
It was requested that a attend a Domestic abuse course & parenting course before my existing application can proceed any further.
I have completed these course.
I put in a C2 form friday, i have now been told that i need to put a fresh application in but the Judge who viewed this application.
On the basis that my last hearing was a final hearing.
First of all im confused as my order said it was a directions hearing and not a final (maybe they left there glasses at home today)
Plus the judge at the last hearing wanted me to put in a C2 once i had done these course, in typical Family court fashion, it seems there dont know there Ar*e from there elbow.
What is my best port of call now, can i make a complaint about this direct to the court with regards to this as i have been in the process now for three years and it seems the merry go round has to start all over again
And am i best actually putting in a C100 again? - Fingers crossed this will all be sorted for my current 4 years old 30th birthday party
It was requested that a attend a Domestic abuse course & parenting course before my existing application can proceed any further.
I have completed these course.
I put in a C2 form friday, i have now been told that i need to put a fresh application in but the Judge who viewed this application.
On the basis that my last hearing was a final hearing.
First of all im confused as my order said it was a directions hearing and not a final (maybe they left there glasses at home today)
Plus the judge at the last hearing wanted me to put in a C2 once i had done these course, in typical Family court fashion, it seems there dont know there Ar*e from there elbow.
What is my best port of call now, can i make a complaint about this direct to the court with regards to this as i have been in the process now for three years and it seems the merry go round has to start all over again
And am i best actually putting in a C100 again? - Fingers crossed this will all be sorted for my current 4 years old 30th birthday party