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Family Court Cafcas- Advise

He last posted on 28 November so maybe still in shock. Said he was in shock over it. Hope he sees the posts - he needs to apply for an urgent directions hearing I think - anyone else think so? Cafcass report is flawed as it recommends a non existent course and he needs the court to order an alternative course being acceptable.

This is when things can go so horribly wrong in family court - losing a fact find and it can be major shock and a mess - it was bad enough when people had to admit something they hadn't done to get an order. But a non existent course is a joke.
 
Ash said:
He last posted on 28 November so maybe still in shock. Said he was in shock over it. Hope he sees the posts - he needs to apply for an urgent directions hearing I think - anyone else think so? Cafcass report is flawed as it recommends a non existent course and he needs the court to order an alternative course being acceptable.

This is when things can go so horribly wrong in family court - losing a fact find and it can be major shock and a mess - it was bad enough when people had to admit something they hadn't done to get an order. But a non existent course is a joke.
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Urgent directions hearing might be the only option. But, I would also think about permission to appeal. I have read a few cases where it was given much later when justified. Slip rule has also occurred to me as an option. An order that requires the impossible on the basis of a faulty recommendation, surely cannot have been the intention.
 
I think slip rule is more for typos or accidental omissions in a sealed order.

But one way or the other this CAN be put right, it’s quite a clear error procedurally but even just on the facts.

If a final order was made (I did ask the poster but he didn’t reply) the recourse would be permission to appeal. But I experienced first hand how fluid courts can be and even a letter to the judge explaining the plain omission of the alternative options to DAPP might work in obtaining a directions hearing. Judges emails are not easy to find but they are not impossible to find.

Failing that and as Resolute said, I can see this being given permission to appeal out of time, again just because there has been such a grave error made.

Fingers crossed he will come back and see these messages.
 
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That is interesting - I had assumed it would be out of time - interesting to know it's possible to still appeal out of time. Appeal would be the best option of possible. I will message him. In case he's still around.
 
Hi all, Apologies for the late Response to this.
Cut a long story short my Eldest child has been extremely unwell so i have focused my time on this.

I started to explore trying to find a Provider that will take me me on a DAPP Course, Unfortunately everyone i contact gives me the below

we are not currently able to consider any referrals from parties that are in Family Court Proceedings, are planning to make an application or reapply to Family Court, or who have a court order to attend a domestic abuse program.

As you can appreciate this isn't a great sign, also on Cafcass website it even says

`Please note family court advisors can no longer recommend perpetrator programs to court.''

So i have decided today to fill in a C2 application to ask for further directions, i think im on month 32 now of this whole family court process
 
wassaw123 said:
Hi all, Apologies for the late Response to this.
Cut a long story short my Eldest child has been extremely unwell so i have focused my time on this.

I started to explore trying to find a Provider that will take me me on a DAPP Course, Unfortunately everyone i contact gives me the below

we are not currently able to consider any referrals from parties that are in Family Court Proceedings, are planning to make an application or reapply to Family Court, or who have a court order to attend a domestic abuse program.

As you can appreciate this isn't a great sign, also on Cafcass website it even says

`Please note family court advisors can no longer recommend perpetrator programs to court.''

So i have decided today to fill in a C2 application to ask for further directions, i think im on month 32 now of this whole family court process
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I'd strongly suggest to Cafcass and the courts to accept you attending the Caring Dads programme instead

caringdads.org

Caring Dads™

caringdads.org caringdads.org
 
Hi it’s wasn’t a final order no
Is this course a two day course and then it’s done? Or is it a weekly course
 
Hi Ash
Just spoke to them, the course this weekend is part two, its run over a weekend which starts again next month
Think im going to get this done, just want to check it will be the right course as dont want to do it for the clown at cafcass to say ohhh its the wrong course
 
Hey Wassaw,

I’ve just looked through all of this. You sound in quite a similar position as I have been and currently still am in. No further directions to spend time with my kid by Court unless I attend a DAPP recommended by Cafcass - which yes. Doesn’t exist. So I was given a final order with no progression to move forwards unless it is ‘that’ DAPP. To sum it up Cafcass really disliked me. Anyway, I appealed N161 (after much back and fourth with Ash on here about my proceedings - which once again I can’t thank him enough) I wasn’t aware I might have the opportunity of it being before a circuit judge and maybe something still might not align to be able too. But I sent my appeal on the 21st day. Court have contacted me after receiving it, it’s been sealed and going through the next steps to get it to a hearing.

Not sure if my story really helps you. But I’m experiencing exactly the same problem. Don’t give up - I wanted to too.
 
That was a useful link for me DW81 given by Ash. Really clear on your route and options to appeal. It also allowed me to dig a little deeper on points made elsewhere.

Only thing I’m not sure of is about appealing (non final hearings). You have stated that it was not a final hearing…

Just from research (in my case) I could appeal as I was given a final hearing and order. I wouldn’t know where to go if you are appealing prior to a final hearing. I am pretty sure it would not be a N161/FP161 path that I took. But begs the question, is there no final hearing listed until you do the course???
 
Hi
No final hearing is listed for me
I have to do the dapp first then a hearing can be listed
Contacted temper today - suggestion from ash
Hopefully I can do that course
Problem is I want to know if this course will be accepted by the court
It will just be my luck that I do it and it’s not accepted by cafcass or court
 
When the nonexistent course was being thrown around court to me a few weeks ago. Cafcass insisted it can only be a ‘RESPECT’ accredited course. Cafcass used to have a list of ‘RESPECT’ accredited courses on their website - during my proceedings since they have been removed from their website.

Also vocalised by Cafcass to court - they cannot recommend any course to undertake in the meantime. Essentially you can find a course but it’s not recommended by Cafcass.

I spoke to Temper and they believe the wait for Cafcass’ course is a longer wait than two years from now.

I think any course is beneficial in our case as it shows a willingness. But that’s as far as it goes for me. Because what they want you to do doesn’t exist and there is no alternative for Cafcass to accept. So it’s mind blowing that it can be recommended and listened to by a judge.
 
Well I spoke to a few of the respect course
This is the same response I got from them All

Unfortunately, it has been confirmed that we not currently able to consider any referrals from parties that are in Family Court Proceedings, are planning to make an application or reapply to Family Court, or who have a court order to attend a domestic abuse programme. This is due to the withdrawal of Ministry of Justice/Cafcass’ funding for domestic abuse programmes and changes to the level of involvement Cafcass Family Court Advisors now have in cases where a DAPP has been court-ordered.
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jafranks said:
When the nonexistent course was being thrown around court to me a few weeks ago. Cafcass insisted it can only be a ‘RESPECT’ accredited course. Cafcass used to have a list of ‘RESPECT’ accredited courses on their website - during my proceedings since they have been removed from their website.

Also vocalised by Cafcass to court - they cannot recommend any course to undertake in the meantime. Essentially you can find a course but it’s not recommended by Cafcass.

I spoke to Temper and they believe the wait for Cafcass’ course is a longer wait than two years from now.

I think any course is beneficial in our case as it shows a willingness. But that’s as far as it goes for me. Because what they want you to do doesn’t exist and there is no alternative for Cafcass to accept. So it’s mind blowing that it can be recommended and listened to by a judge.
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It’s actually quite embarrassing really
Imagine losing you license and then saying you can get it back but you have to do a retest, but sorry no one offers this

There would be outrage but because it’s family court seems anything goes and no common sense is ever applied
 
it’s criminal. We all agree

Must be some statement made by the ministry of justice to Cafcass and these respect accredited courses that just say keep handing it to the non-resident parent at court and we will get something going again in ….. 2024/25. So us who are in the middle of it are essentially served nothing, with no timescales or alternatives as options. What you do offer to Cafcass and Court as an alternative they don’t want to know? God knows what happens in their systems. Just need to keep fighting for the child

I wish I could say my appeal might change that, but it won’t change it for everyone it might not even do anything for me. So hopefully someone can have some alternatives for you. I don’t know how you appeal against something that isn’t a final hearing.
 
By all means correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not think an appeal can only be made on a final order.

For instance plenty of case law on appeals against finding of fact hearings and I’m quite sure I’ve read appeals against directions judgements/orders.

Now, appeals against directions are almost certainly to fail as they’re simply directions unless it really prejudices somebody.

In this case, my opinion is that the circumstances are so blatantly unjust and against the overriding principle of maintaining the parent-child relationship that I genuinely can not see how an appeal judge can not allow it and/or offer a solution (ie use their discretion and alter the order and the directions).

It’s an exceptional situation that the legislation doesn’t really allow for.

However, given that is plainly unjust and absurd, and would affect many fathers in family proceedings, I feel it would be given permission to apply out of date and appeal would succeed, at the very least in obtaining further directions.

Always bearing in mind that the allegations were of such low level that this result is just plainly wrong.
 
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