It's understandable. You mean you think she could do worse than turn your child into a spitting hater?
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Advice What can I do???
- Thread starter DB2021
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I know I do think it’s going to end up back at court very soon. Tbh if she refuses to let me pick her up from school next week then I’ll be putting in an application to vary straight away. School have already said they will support this and that they don’t believe our daughter will have any issue with it even if she has said she doesn’t want me to.
No I know when you put it like that what’s the worst that can happen. I think with me it’s more I’ve fought so hard to get what I did at court I’m allowing the fear of losing that by upsetting mam override everything else.
No I know when you put it like that what’s the worst that can happen. I think with me it’s more I’ve fought so hard to get what I did at court I’m allowing the fear of losing that by upsetting mam override everything else.
You're not weak. You're in a catch 22 situation.
I'm really sorry it's gone bad again for you. As you've read my post, you know me and my partner know exactly how you feel and have our full sympathy.
Your ex will have ramped things up after the nice time you had with your daughter.
You have Social services coming up again so fingers crossed for that.
Thanx Peanut it is a huge comfort knowing there’s people out there that can offer support and advice I’d have crumbled if it hadn’t been for this forum.
I know sadly the social worker won’t be around much longer after next weeks meeting she will close the case as she was only involved for 6 months after court order and that’s nearly up. Also not sure she will do anything as she expects us to resolve things ourselves which I agree with but sadly there’s only me that has our daughters best interests at heart.
Ash made a great point earlier about it’s her way of showing the control she has she lost at court but can manipulate things as and when it suits her
It's the stress. It makes you feel terrified of further nastiness and abuse or what else she might do. Sometimes you need to find a way to deal with those feelings and then just bite the bullet. I've been there myelf. But what became very clear after my first order was - my ex would continually be disruptive and try to keep my son away with any excuse she could, and try and alienate him - so the only solution was back to court for a much tighter worded order and scare the pants off my ex with the fear of losing residency.
The only way to deal with bullies is have someone more powerful than them dealing with things, and taking some of their unlimited power away. The first way to do that is have a better order. Even if it's only one more day or school pickups - it means the ex has lost somethng. That's a deterrant - if she doesn't follow the next order she might lose more.
Thanx ash I’ve never looked at things that way. The damage my ex has done to my mental health has hit me very very hard and since then I’ve constantly tread on egg shells and let her as you’ve said bully me.
But I do know that I have no other option but to either just accept things as they are or get stronger and take her on no matter what that causes her to do.
I need to be stronger for my little girl and the accept things is not an option.
I will see how the meeting goes next week and if school pick ups are refused then I’ll put my application in to vary the very same day well if this can be done online that is.
I also know i need to get my order worded a lot better than it is so I’ll be back for advice on what I should be asking for.
The pain I feel I need to use to fight not let it drag me down like I have been.
Sorry to read you are going through this again DB. The point here is simply that arrangements for such a young child are not decided upon by the child. It is our responsibility as parents to make these decisions. If we fail, and rely upon a court to settle the issue, it becomes our responsibility to comply with what the court decides.
I fear you are, through no fault of your own, becoming complicit in Mum's decision to burden the child with this decision. Would it be possible to tell the child it is time to come with you? Asking her what she wants is not appropriate to the situation.
I had an occasion where my child said they did not want to come with me on collection from school. It was shocking and heartbreaking, but a little digging with the headmistress revealed that her hesitance came from Mum's foul play.
I agree with Ash that your ex is pulling strings. I would take this issue head on with Mum. Something along the lines of:
Dear Ex,
Our daughter is not old enough to make independent decisions on what she does and with whom she spends time. As her parents, it is our job to provide instruction. The time she is ordered to spend with me is not subject to her preference and we should make this clear to her. Following our meeting with professionals, our daughter demonstrated that she is very happy with me, if given the correct guidance.
When I next come to collect XXXXX, please tell her: "it is time to go with daddy now." She will greatly appreciate not being burdened with the decision you have explicitly been asking her to make, i.e. "do you want to go with daddy?"
Please let me know if there is anything you think I could do to help things go smoothly when our daughter is next scheduled to be with me. I want to work with you to make things go as smoothly as possible for her.
Yours...
That might not be the right thing to write for your situation, but I think you need to find a way of changing the emphasis here. At present, it seems like you are lacking if handover fails.
I've had times that my little one cried saying "I miss Mummy" when handed over to me. I got her away from Mum and sympathised with her: I know you miss Mummy, you should miss the people you love when they are not there, she misses you too, you'll be with her soon to give her a big hug so she knows how much you love her, its ok this is normal... Giving her permission to find handover difficult worked wonders.
Sorry if I'm rambling, just trying to share some thoughts from times I've been in a similar situation. Hope some are relevant.
I fear you are, through no fault of your own, becoming complicit in Mum's decision to burden the child with this decision. Would it be possible to tell the child it is time to come with you? Asking her what she wants is not appropriate to the situation.
I had an occasion where my child said they did not want to come with me on collection from school. It was shocking and heartbreaking, but a little digging with the headmistress revealed that her hesitance came from Mum's foul play.
I agree with Ash that your ex is pulling strings. I would take this issue head on with Mum. Something along the lines of:
Dear Ex,
Our daughter is not old enough to make independent decisions on what she does and with whom she spends time. As her parents, it is our job to provide instruction. The time she is ordered to spend with me is not subject to her preference and we should make this clear to her. Following our meeting with professionals, our daughter demonstrated that she is very happy with me, if given the correct guidance.
When I next come to collect XXXXX, please tell her: "it is time to go with daddy now." She will greatly appreciate not being burdened with the decision you have explicitly been asking her to make, i.e. "do you want to go with daddy?"
Please let me know if there is anything you think I could do to help things go smoothly when our daughter is next scheduled to be with me. I want to work with you to make things go as smoothly as possible for her.
Yours...
That might not be the right thing to write for your situation, but I think you need to find a way of changing the emphasis here. At present, it seems like you are lacking if handover fails.
I've had times that my little one cried saying "I miss Mummy" when handed over to me. I got her away from Mum and sympathised with her: I know you miss Mummy, you should miss the people you love when they are not there, she misses you too, you'll be with her soon to give her a big hug so she knows how much you love her, its ok this is normal... Giving her permission to find handover difficult worked wonders.
Sorry if I'm rambling, just trying to share some thoughts from times I've been in a similar situation. Hope some are relevant.
Morning Resolute.
Thank you for you reply it makes a lot of sense.
I agree I am complicit in allowing my ex to put the burden on our daughter but really because I don’t want our daughter thinking she is being forced to spend time with me even though that’s counter intuitive as when she is with me away from mum she is more than happy and has a lovely time and has never once said she misses her mum.
As I said to ash yesterday I know I’ve been weak for to long and I’ve allowed my ex to dictate and belittle me time and time again which has cost me a lot mental health wise. I just didn’t want to poke the bear as they say given that it seamed things had turned the corner finally but ash made a lot of sense about my ex using this as control and her showing me the control she has.
Sadly there is no way for me to tell her to come as when she is the way she is with me like the last couple of days there is no speaking to her I’ve tried many times but all I get is screaming to go away that she doesn’t love me then the spitting and kicking starts which breaks me to see the turmoil she is going through.
A little girl doesn’t go from the loving happy little girl she was last week to this without things happening in the background that I’m unaware of.
There is no reasoning with my ex either she just doesn’t care what I or the professionals think it’s my problem and she has no intentions of helping the situation and her statement “I’m not family” pretty much tells me all I need to know.
Even though I know a 5 year old shouldn’t be burdened with those decisions even the social worker seams to think she is old enough to decide as she has said more than once “I have a 5 year old saying this etc”.
I want to pick her up from school which will take away her mams influence during term time collections which I’m going to ask for next week at our meeting and if I’m refused then I will go back to court to vary the order and have that added as despite being told our daughter doesn’t want me to at an open day at the school as soon as mum left she was more than happy playing with me showing me round her classroom and came with me happily, and her teacher also believes our daughter would be fine if mum wasn’t there. I believe mum is trying to stop this as it takes away that control she has before I arrive. My biggest issue will be holidays so that’s something I need to look into as I think the only way forward is having collections and drop offs away from mum.
If you get the school collections going, I think that will make things easier for the holidays. Your daughter will start to see you as performing a role equivalent to the role her mum performs. You would no longer be the outsider coming to interrupt her normality, you would be a part of the normality to which she is accustomed. 'Contact Centre' handovers or handovers in a public place are the alternatives if collection from mum doesn't work during holidays.
Your daughter's hostility towards you is not normal, I think it would be worth looking to get some independent support for her. Something like an ELSA intervention at school if she does not have this already. I would also look into services for bereaved children. These are patchy, but there are charities that run sessions on a local basis. The service in my area brings kids together and helps them to cope with the loss.
I am glad to see you are starting to feel the strength and purpose needed to take this to court if necessary. Perhaps you could have been more assertive earlier on, then again, perhaps you would not have had that glorious week over Easter if you made an application.
From where this thread started, you have done an incredible job! Keeping on keeping on is a big part of the battle, and you have kept going whatever skulduggery has been thrown at you.
If the meeting next week does not help, it is a good moment for an application. You are in a good position with the services involved, have recent evidence your relationship with the child can work, and recent evidence that mum is the problem.
Your daughter's hostility towards you is not normal, I think it would be worth looking to get some independent support for her. Something like an ELSA intervention at school if she does not have this already. I would also look into services for bereaved children. These are patchy, but there are charities that run sessions on a local basis. The service in my area brings kids together and helps them to cope with the loss.
I am glad to see you are starting to feel the strength and purpose needed to take this to court if necessary. Perhaps you could have been more assertive earlier on, then again, perhaps you would not have had that glorious week over Easter if you made an application.
From where this thread started, you have done an incredible job! Keeping on keeping on is a big part of the battle, and you have kept going whatever skulduggery has been thrown at you.
If the meeting next week does not help, it is a good moment for an application. You are in a good position with the services involved, have recent evidence your relationship with the child can work, and recent evidence that mum is the problem.
Hi Resolute.
Yes that’s exactly why I want collections from school as I know once my ex is taken out the equation my little girl will be fine. That’s the saddest part as when she is with me she is so happy and doesn’t even mention mum so to me there can only be on explanation for her sudden change in behaviour. I turn up at the door and as soon as she sees me through window she scowls which shows mum is doing nothing to help.
Thankfully the school has started support I’m not sure exactly what but I will be bringing this up at next weeks meeting as this needs ramping up and also bereavement counselling I think would be great funny that my ex supposedly was looking into this but has never bothered.
I definitely realise I should have been more assertive and not allow her to bully me the way she has and I’m certainly in the mindset now that enough is enough and I will do whatever is necessary to make sure I get the time with my daughter no matter how much it angers my ex. I didn’t want things to be like this but she leaves me no choice.
I am proud of where I’ve got to but frustrated that I haven’t stronger in dealing with the issues quickly enough. I think after last week I let my guard down thinking we had got there which was silly of me but in a way I’m glad as I can go back to court and get a better more air right order.
I suspect the meeting won’t help given the social worker just wants to close the case but at least I’ll know where I’m going afterwards.
Yes that’s exactly why I want collections from school as I know once my ex is taken out the equation my little girl will be fine. That’s the saddest part as when she is with me she is so happy and doesn’t even mention mum so to me there can only be on explanation for her sudden change in behaviour. I turn up at the door and as soon as she sees me through window she scowls which shows mum is doing nothing to help.
Thankfully the school has started support I’m not sure exactly what but I will be bringing this up at next weeks meeting as this needs ramping up and also bereavement counselling I think would be great funny that my ex supposedly was looking into this but has never bothered.
I definitely realise I should have been more assertive and not allow her to bully me the way she has and I’m certainly in the mindset now that enough is enough and I will do whatever is necessary to make sure I get the time with my daughter no matter how much it angers my ex. I didn’t want things to be like this but she leaves me no choice.
I am proud of where I’ve got to but frustrated that I haven’t stronger in dealing with the issues quickly enough. I think after last week I let my guard down thinking we had got there which was silly of me but in a way I’m glad as I can go back to court and get a better more air right order.
I suspect the meeting won’t help given the social worker just wants to close the case but at least I’ll know where I’m going afterwards.
Because she was only ordered to be involved for 6 months to help embed the order she has said for quiet a while that she was looking to close it as her boss has said she shouldn’t be involved anymore and that it’s down to us to solve issues etc, they don’t believe my ex is causing any of the issues I’m having I’m just told give it time she may be testing you etc etc.
The social worker has constantly said about the loss for them because of the death of my ex’s mam my daughters gran and her having a bad a couple of days after that happened. So I’ve been stuck a little in saying anything without coming across as uncompassionate and tbh my ex has used this as a way to get away with things hence why she said yesterday I don’t understand our daughter losing family which led to her pretty much saying I’m nothing to our daughter.
But now I don’t care I’ll be respectful but I won’t think twice about going back to court they either give me collections from school or I’ll apply to vary I’ve been patient and given so much lee way but now I’m allowing this to become the norm which I’m no longer going to let happen.
I’m lucky that the school has been really good not just with offering support to our daughter but saying collections should be happening and that they see no reason for our daughter to have an issue with it even saying if my ex is there our daughter obviously will go to her so she needs not to be.
No. I don't think it makes any difference whether she closes the case or not. Sorry if that was confusing. If she was appointed to make sure things were going ok and they now aren't then she should stay involved or tell you to re apply to court really.
She wasn’t appointed by the court she became involved instead of Cafcass due to allegations about my ex’s new partner. It was just agreed by them and us that she would remain involved for 6 months to help make things go smoothly.
But she has said many times when I’ve mentioned court that “what’s a judge going to do” and it would be her that writes a report for court etc as if in a way to scare me into not doing so.
She refuses to believe my ex is behind any of it saying with what has happened this behaviour is understandable etc
No I know it’s not but sadly what I’ve had to deal with since the beginning but I do have to give her some credit as she wrote a very fair s7 and has helped in many other ways.
I guess she just is blindly hoping we can solve things between us but that’s because she won’t look at my ex as the cause even though it’s obvious as a little girl doesn’t behave so happily when she’s with me to how she has been the last couple of visits for no reason
I think last time you mentioned court, the SW was actually strongly against it and saying she would say something wasn't she? So I can see you need to keep her onside but if it's time for her to close the case and things have reverted. When is your next meeting with SW? And will that be at the school?
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