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JohnMark

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Back in November 2022 me and my girlfriend at the time had a baby girl. We’d got together around August 2021 and she moved it to my place around February time. My ex fell pregnant within the first month of moving in. Things were good at the time we was happy so we decided to keep the baby and start a family. Our relationship soon took the turn for the worse. The pregnancy was the worse 9 months of my life. This turned very toxic and wasn’t a healthy relationship. Our daughter was born and within a couple weeks when we come back down to earth things turned back to how they was before the birth. I had no choice to end the relationship as it was unfair on our daughter more than anything and I couldn’t live the rest of my life like this. The hardest decision I’ve ever had to make but I know deep down the right one.
Our daughter still very young made things difficult. She needed to be with her Mom at these early stages but also I needed to see her too. We met up at the park for an hour a couple times but then she put a stop to that. She wouldn’t let me see her. Then I was allowed to see her for an hour on a Saturday morning whilst my ex stayed in the room. Things slowly got better in terms of seeing my daughter.
9 months on the relationship between me and my ex is as toxic as ever. I see my daughter 8 hours a week on a Saturday. I was seeing her on a Tuesday after work 3:30-6:30 because I was working local and could get there on time but recently that had had to stop because of working up and down the country I simply cannot commit to it. She recently stopped me from seeing her for a month which I found very difficult. She stopped me from taking her to my niece’s christening cause she don’t like my family. I could right a book on the things she said and done. Never in the best interest of our daughter, just trying to spite me as much as possible.
Things weren’t getting any better so I contacted a mediation company. We’ve had on session and now I’m back to seeing my daughter after my ex had stopped me from seeing her. I’ve been asking for an over night stay for months but she comes up with excuses as to why not. I’ve asked for more time I.e Sundays but she says one Sunday a month is all because Sundays are our daughters day to spend with her grandparents. She has recently asked me to have our daughter back on a Tuesday night knowing full well it’s not possible for me because of work commitments. She told me that for the sake of seeing my child I should start having half a day on Tuesday. I work full time, I have a mortgage, pay my bills and also pay for my daughter. I’m not in a job when I can just pick and choose if I want half a day here and there. I’ve told her it’s not reasonable and to discuss it in mediation in our next appointment.
Unfortunately I know things are going to get better through mediation and I’m not going to be able to see my daughter any more than 8 hours a week. I know she is young but I know I’m more than entitled to be seeing her more.
I’ve spoken to solicitors but also heard horror stories about going to court. I need to go to court but I have my doubts. I’m stuck in what to do. It’d be great if there was someone I could talk to who has been in a similar position to see how they went about things.
The longer this goes on the worst it gets I need to kip it in the bud before she gets older.
 
Good morning and welcome.

Sorry to hear what you are going through. Do not feel like you are alone. A few questions first.

Where is mum living? How far from you? Are you on the birth certificate?

How are communications between you and the ex? It's crucial, if they haven't been already, that they are friendly and child focussed. Too many of us on here have experienced a pattern of behaviour from these women so get all the advice and experience from the men here before acting.

I promise you, a long term strategy and approach will work out best for you.
 
In the short term, whatever list of crappy behaviour you have about her will only eat away at you. If it isn't a major safeguarding issue, make a note of it with dates and file it away, emotionally and literally. Focus on what you can control and influence.

Out of interest, are your parents about? When is their grandparent day?
 
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Moms living back at her parents house. So her grandparents see her every day anyway. I’m only a 20 minute drive away and yes I’m on the birth certificate.
My parents are around yes but they don't have a day. My ex try’s her hardest to push them out of our daughters life. I have my daughter 8 hours Saturday. I like to take my daughter out and do all sorts of things to build our relationship but also want her to have a relationship with my parents, which is difficult to do in 8 hours a week.
When I take our daughter round to see them it’s because ‘you can’t even look after your own child for a day’. Can’t win
 
Your daughter is about 10 months is that right?

And you have her for 8 hours every Saturday?

For a child of such a young age you are seeing her a lot more than many men on here.

That's not saying what you have is perfect but it's a strong position to be in. Lots of men go months without any contact and it's an uphill battle for them.

Is mum engaging in mediation fully?

In my view you have some good options.

Keep going with the mediation and see if mother will agree to some sort of stepped increase in family time as your daughter ages. This does.nt have to be long term.

You could suggest the 8 hours on a Saturday continue for the next 4 weeks. Then to have 8 hours on a Saturday and 4 on alternating Sundays?

Then an overnight Saturday and family time Sunday to handover daughter at an agreed time late afternoon?

Then suggest a midweek dinner to be scheduled each week?

The grandparent excuse is a non starter for her.

Has she raised any safeguarding concerns?
 
This will then give you a string base and history of shared care if mother does then decide to restrict time.

You could agree a schedule with the mediator which, sadly, would not be binding. I do believ you could then have it formalised for a cost.

If she refuses to negotiate or propose additional time then you can have your mediation signed off and begin court proceedings. This is not a cheap option so I would go all out and try and settle matters via mediation.
 
Northernsoul has made really good points above. I am in full support of his take on the situation.

First, I want to reinforce one of the points already made. Sick though it is, 8 hours a week unsupervised time with the baby is a pretty strong starting point. In fact, I would say it is gold dust and should be maintained in just about any possible way. Frequency is kinda low, but 8 hours non-stop shows you are a capable father. Are you napping the baby in that time? Have you communicated with your ex about routine? Have there been any issues relating to how the baby is after time with you? Is feeding going well during time with you? Do you feedback to your ex when you handover to her? Do you document what happens?... These questions, and others, relate to defending against moves your ex might make to problematise the current arrangement.

I get the impression that you have gone from an hour a week under your ex's direct supervision, to 8 hours a week unsupervised. Is that correct? If it is, progression has been pretty significant. Perhaps not in terms of what you want. But, in terms of what it demonstrates about your ability, your relationship with the baby, and your ex's confidence in you.

My experience is very different in some ways. The toxic relationship and an ex that was infuriating beyond imagination feels similar. It took a while for me to realise that if my ex managed to get me fighting, it was a win for her.

Court may turn out to be necessary in your situation. In some ways you are lucky you got away so soon. This should mean that any allegations against you are easily dismissed. A read of the threads on here will show that allegations are the oil that gets our family law machine turning. In my view, the first victims of this absurdity are parents and children who have suffered genuine abuse. They are undermined by all the tactical allegations at play in the system. Parents who face false allegations, and the children who are robbed as a result, suffer hard as well.

If your ex comes to be advised by a legal aid solicitor and a domestic abuse agency. Allegations are the first move in their playbook. I have seen this both as the person allegations are made against and as the person being advised to make allegations.

It might be wise to think over all your ex has said to or about you and try to find anything that could be inflated into an allegation. Here are some candidates:

Drugs;
Alcohol;
Health;
Mental health;
Criminal behaviour;
Controlling behaviour;
Financial disputes;
Sexual impropriety;
Neglect of the child;
Shouting;
Violence against objects (punching the wall or whatever);
Disputes regarding her family or friends, i.e. attempts to isolate her;

When I saw my ex's first application to court, everything fell into place. She had been collecting points of contention to use against me. Picking fights post separation to get her ammo.

All of this may well be irrelevant to your situation. All of the many solicitors I spoke to said it would be irrelevant to mine. Once the gloves come off, anything is possible.

EDIT
I just reread my post and I should make a couple of things clear:

1) I am not saying allegations will stick
2) they can knock you back a long way even when they don't stick.
 
Last edited:
8 hrs a week for a baby is actually a solid start .

I really would push your employer to enact family friendly rota to allow you to have a mid week morning or afternoon off . If you could get two prolonged stints with baby a week that would be a good precedent going forward.

Ignore the nasty comments from ex but keep a note.

Don’t communicate with mum except absolutely necessary and only child centred.

I personally would stick to mediation and not consider court as off yet.
 
mva said:
8 hrs a week for a baby is actually a solid start .

I really would push your employer to enact family friendly rota to allow you to have a mid week morning or afternoon off . If you could get two prolonged stints with baby a week that would be a good precedent going forward.

Ignore the nasty comments from ex but keep a note.

Don’t communicate with mum except absolutely necessary and only child centred.

I personally would stick to mediation and not consider court as off yet.
Click to expand...

Yep, there are plenty of reasons to avoid court if you can maintain and progress by other means.
 
Agree that 8 hours a week on a Saturday is a good start. And that you need to accept things are not good with your ex but keep things amicable from a distance, for your child's sake. Sometimes this means gritting your teeth or detaching from unpleasant things said.

A child that young needs to see a parent regularly - so every other week-end would be too long a gap. A full day every week-end is good - although ideally it would be overnight as well. Other than that a court might order a midweek tea time. What time do you finish work? Do you get flexitime at all?

Just to add also you need to be careful if thinking about entitlement. That's not the case really. It's about the child's rights - to have regular and significant time with, and a relationship with, both parents. But I know what you mean.
 
nothernsoul said:
Your daughter is about 10 months is that right?

And you have her for 8 hours every Saturday?

For a child of such a young age you are seeing her a lot more than many men on here.

That's not saying what you have is perfect but it's a strong position to be in. Lots of men go months without any contact and it's an uphill battle for them.

Is mum engaging in mediation fully?

In my view you have some good options.

Keep going with the mediation and see if mother will agree to some sort of stepped increase in family time as your daughter ages. This does.nt have to be long term.

You could suggest the 8 hours on a Saturday continue for the next 4 weeks. Then to have 8 hours on a Saturday and 4 on alternating Sundays?

Then an overnight Saturday and family time Sunday to handover daughter at an agreed time late afternoon?

Then suggest a midweek dinner to be scheduled each week?

The grandparent excuse is a non starter for her.

Has she raised any safeguarding concerns?
Click to expand...
She will be 10 months this week yes. I agree I’m in a better position than a lot of Dads out there but still finding it hard and very frustrating. After reading a few posts on this forum it has opened my eyes as to how many heartless women are out there.
She is engaging in mediation but requesting it to be staggered. Where we can’t see or hear what each others saying and it’s passed on through the mediators. Which is frustrating as it makes things 10x slower. Not to mention it’s a 6 week wait in between each session. But I’m certainly going to stick with it atm and like you say suggest an increase in time seeing my daughter.
There’s no safe guarding concerns no.
 
Good man.

6 weeks between sessions seems like a very long time.

Who suggested that?

It might be 10 times slower in the short term mate but could end being 10 times faster and considerable times cheaper in the long run.

You're doing well.

Keep at it.
 
Resolute said:
Northernsoul has made really good points above. I am in full support of his take on the situation.

First, I want to reinforce one of the points already made. Sick though it is, 8 hours a week unsupervised time with the baby is a pretty strong starting point. In fact, I would say it is gold dust and should be maintained in just about any possible way. Frequency is kinda low, but 8 hours non-stop shows you are a capable father. Are you napping the baby in that time? Have you communicated with your ex about routine? Have there been any issues relating to how the baby is after time with you? Is feeding going well during time with you? Do you feedback to your ex when you handover to her? Do you document what happens?... These questions, and others, relate to defending against moves your ex might make to problematise the current arrangement.

I get the impression that you have gone from an hour a week under your ex's direct supervision, to 8 hours a week unsupervised. Is that correct? If it is, progression has been pretty significant. Perhaps not in terms of what you want. But, in terms of what it demonstrates about your ability, your relationship with the baby, and your ex's confidence in you.

My experience is very different in some ways. The toxic relationship and an ex that was infuriating beyond imagination feels similar. It took a while for me to realise that if my ex managed to get me fighting, it was a win for her.

Court may turn out to be necessary in your situation. In some ways you are lucky you got away so soon. This should mean that any allegations against you are easily dismissed. A read of the threads on here will show that allegations are the oil that gets our family law machine turning. In my view, the first victims of this absurdity are parents and children who have suffered genuine abuse. They are undermined by all the tactical allegations at play in the system. Parents who face false allegations, and the children who are robbed as a result, suffer hard as well.

If your ex comes to be advised by a legal aid solicitor and a domestic abuse agency. Allegations are the first move in their playbook. I have seen this both as the person allegations are made against and as the person being advised to make allegations.

It might be wise to think over all your ex has said to or about you and try to find anything that could be inflated into an allegation. Here are some candidates:

Drugs;
Alcohol;
Health;
Mental health;
Criminal behaviour;
Controlling behaviour;
Financial disputes;
Sexual impropriety;
Neglect of the child;
Shouting;
Violence against objects (punching the wall or whatever);
Disputes regarding her family or friends, i.e. attempts to isolate her;

When I saw my ex's first application to court, everything fell into place. She had been collecting points of contention to use against me. Picking fights post separation to get her ammo.

All of this may well be irrelevant to your situation. All of the many solicitors I spoke to said it would be irrelevant to mine. Once the gloves come off, anything is possible.

EDIT
I just reread my post and I should make a couple of things clear:

1) I am not saying allegations will stick
2) they can knock you back a long way even when they don't stick.
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s a good starting point but still finding it frustrating as I can’t see it moving forward any time soon.
Yes baby napping and feeding fine with me. We’ve communicated about routines and I always feedback when handing back. I’ve documented things and screen shotted hundreds of texts.
I know I’m a very capable father and my daughter loves the time she spends with me. That’s what makes it so frustrating.
Yes that’s correct things have improved like you say but recently stopped from seeing her for a month, now back to 8 hours on a Saturday after a mediation session, I don’t know, feels like a bit of a step backwards.
Hopefully court isn’t needed but it always in the back of my mind that it’s going to end up there.
Quite scary at the thought of all these allegations that can be easily made up and listened to. If she’d be advised by a solicitor like you said she would be all over that. Luckily I’m quite laid back and took it all on the chin with no retaliation. Which has been hard at times but everything on my side said and done has been with my daughter in mind
 
mva said:
8 hrs a week for a baby is actually a solid start .

I really would push your employer to enact family friendly rota to allow you to have a mid week morning or afternoon off . If you could get two prolonged stints with baby a week that would be a good precedent going forward.

Ignore the nasty comments from ex but keep a note.

Don’t communicate with mum except absolutely necessary and only child centred.

I personally would stick to mediation and not consider court as off yet.
Click to expand...
That’s the thing I work full time up and down the country and don’t get back till 5ish most days. Every day is different I just can’t commit to anything midweek. There’s no way I can do half a day once a week unfortunately. I’d love to have her midweek but It is what it is.
Cheers for the advice mate appreciate it. Definitely will stick to meditation for the time being and hope it helps
 
nothernsoul said:
Good man.

6 weeks between sessions seems like a very long time.

Who suggested that?

It might be 10 times slower in the short term mate but could end being 10 times faster and considerable times cheaper in the long run.

You're doing well.

Keep at it.
Click to expand...
It’s just because they are so busy and it’s the next available slot. It’s a really long time but very true a lot quicker and cheaper than court. Just hope things improve
 
Absolutely the correct approach.

You will need to vent and puke all the bile that builds up inside of you at some stage. Do it on here. The frustrations, inequality and the horrendous unfairness of it all will get to you. But, and this will sound a bit feeble, it's the system and all of your 'pissedoffness' will not change it a jot.

Control the controllables - that's how you beat a system designed, encouraged and taken advantage of by these monsters.

I've got my final hearing approaching and, I've come to accept, I have done all I could possibly have done. Kept everything child focussed, kept my communications respectful and brief and all in writing, seen all of the traps and bait set for me and have been a man that I am proud of and one that I know my children would be proud of. I'll carry that pride and my head held high for ever - the other mob who have put their own needs before the wellbeing of two young children will have that cross to bare the rest of their lives. And, they wont need me to tell them.

deep breaths - and do everything you can so when you look back on this period in your life - you're simply proud of what you did.
 
nothernsoul said:
Absolutely the correct approach.

You will need to vent and puke all the bile that builds up inside of you at some stage. Do it on here. The frustrations, inequality and the horrendous unfairness of it all will get to you. But, and this will sound a bit feeble, it's the system and all of your 'pissedoffness' will not change it a jot.

Control the controllables - that's how you beat a system designed, encouraged and taken advantage of by these monsters.

I've got my final hearing approaching and, I've come to accept, I have done all I could possibly have done. Kept everything child focussed, kept my communications respectful and brief and all in writing, seen all of the traps and bait set for me and have been a man that I am proud of and one that I know my children would be proud of. I'll carry that pride and my head held high for ever - the other mob who have put their own needs before the wellbeing of two young children will have that cross to bare the rest of their lives. And, they wont need me to tell them.

deep breaths - and do everything you can so when you look back on this period in your life - you're simply proud of what you did.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice mate really appreciate it. Found it quite difficult at time as I haven’t been able to speak to anyone in a similar position.
I’ve heard it all ‘if I was in your position I’d do this, I’d say this. Now way would I let anyone take my kids away from me’ etc. Which would wind me up as nobody knows what you’d do until put in this position. I’ve kept my cool at most times and felt like door matt. She’s walked all over me and dictated everything to do with our daughter since we’ve broke up and I’ve had to take it and not give her an inch. I know one day I’ll look back and be glad I acted the bigger person.
Like yourself, done all you can. I hope things go well for you mate and hopefully you get what you want in the end. Let us know how you get on
 
JohnMark said:
Yeah it’s a good starting point but still finding it frustrating as I can’t see it moving forward any time soon.
Yes baby napping and feeding fine with me. We’ve communicated about routines and I always feedback when handing back. I’ve documented things and screen shotted hundreds of texts.
I know I’m a very capable father and my daughter loves the time she spends with me. That’s what makes it so frustrating.
Yes that’s correct things have improved like you say but recently stopped from seeing her for a month, now back to 8 hours on a Saturday after a mediation session, I don’t know, feels like a bit of a step backwards.
Hopefully court isn’t needed but it always in the back of my mind that it’s going to end up there.
Quite scary at the thought of all these allegations that can be easily made up and listened to. If she’d be advised by a solicitor like you said she would be all over that. Luckily I’m quite laid back and took it all on the chin with no retaliation. Which has been hard at times but everything on my side said and done has been with my daughter in mind
Click to expand...

You are doing right by not letting things provoke you. It often feels like a thankless task. But the victory is not going backwards. Maintaining what you have is success in itself.

It sounds like you are doing "shuttle" mediation. This rings a slight alarm bell for me. It is a process that would often be requested in cases of domestic abuse. I wonder if your ex is conscious of this.

The baby being withheld for a month could be indication that your ex is not troubled by the idea of you applying to court. She might feel in quite a strong position for the time being. Consistency and progression for the baby's time with you will make your position even stronger.

Would you be able to commit to picking up at 5:30pm every second Friday? It would only be a tiny bit of flexibility from the job. This might allow overnights to get started with minimal impact. You have most of Saturday already. Your ex might be up for a couple of Friday nights free each month. It would be quite a minimal proposal that could get you over the overnight hurdle. If there is resistance, you could offer to handover earlier on every second Saturday to balance.

Just a thought
 
Resolute said:
You are doing right by not letting things provoke you. It often feels like a thankless task. But the victory is not going backwards. Maintaining what you have is success in itself.

It sounds like you are doing "shuttle" mediation. This rings a slight alarm bell for me. It is a process that would often be requested in cases of domestic abuse. I wonder if your ex is conscious of this.

The baby being withheld for a month could be indication that your ex is not troubled by the idea of you applying to court. She might feel in quite a strong position for the time being. Consistency and progression for the baby's time with you will make your position even stronger.

Would you be able to commit to picking up at 5:30pm every second Friday? It would only be a tiny bit of flexibility from the job. This might allow overnights to get started with minimal impact. You have most of Saturday already. Your ex might be up for a couple of Friday nights free each month. It would be quite a minimal proposal that could get you over the overnight hurdle. If there is resistance, you could offer to handover earlier on every second Saturday to balance.

Just a thought
Click to expand...
There has never been any domestic abuse. I feel as if she’s doing it knowing full well it slows the whole process down. The mediator said it’s pretty common that’s it’s requested but after a few sessions it’s done together. So hopefully that’ll happen.
The Friday night shout is a good call and something I’ll definitely think about asking for as I could be back for them times and it if it does mean a start on the overnights, then happy days. Thanks for that
 
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