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CAO and Financial Order - where to start?

man.united332 said:
at the moment daily contact is not a problem but i dont have a routine which is not good for me or kids, plus no holidays and you live under fear that at anytime mother can deny contact so a proper parenting plan is preferred., my two immediate quetions are

should i contact her solictor for out of court settlement for both CAO and Finances
should i buy a property from my savings, can judge order to give that property to my wife as kids are currently living with her.

thanks
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Ideally, divorcing couples should try to reach an agreement regarding property division. If that’s not possible, you can apply to the courts to decide for you. But you haven't bought the property yet, so contacting her through her solicitor to reach a financial settlement seems to me, the only way of really knowing where you stand.

She's got a home. You need one to facilitate overnight stays and a more consistent and undisturbed child arrangement.

The divorce court has the power to make a range of financial court orders, including:

  • Spousal maintenance
  • Payment of a lump sum
  • Sale of the family home and division of the equity in it
  • Transfer of the family home from joint names or one spouse’s sole name to the other spouse
  • Sale or transfer of investments
  • Sale or transfer of shares in a family business
  • Pension sharing
All you seem to have at the moment is a lump sum of savings. You haven't bought a house yet. If you can settle using that, it may free you to buy your own home unmolested.

Can she seek to claim half of that home as an asset during divorce after agreeing to settle based on the lump sum savings?
This needs further investigation, and/or a proper/better divorce law legal specialist.

There is such a thing as a Home Rights Notice.

Protecting your home ownership rights during divorce or dissolution​

You're going to have to cross this bridge at some point with the question to her; I want a formal child arrangement in place and a new home of my own to have the children in. This is what I propose. Can I please have your position on that proposal?
 
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Financials and Child Arrangements are separate. I don't know much about the divorce financials - others do.
I doubt her solicitors will agree an out of court settlement that is fair - they will want to fleece you and act in their client's best interests.

If you want to try and do things out of court then, for Child Arrangements, you try mediation. But you can't do mediation due to the NMO. Likewise with divorce finances, it can be cheaper to resolve via mediation and agreements drawn up - but you can't do face to face mediation due to the NMO.

Is there any rush to divorce? Your ex has her housing sorted. I would focus on getting a Child Arrangements order, then let your ex start the divorce financials if she wants to.

A progressing order is not a legal term exactly, but a term the courts use. So they will know what you mean if you ask for a progressing order. The point of it is, if it doesn't progress you'd be stuck with no overnights. So you want it to progress to overnights, once you have your own place.

Do you have any pension sharing to consider? ie do either of you have a pension? If not and the only assets are the savings - then I guess it might be possible to agree something with her - ie split the savings - and get a solicitor to draw up a clean break order,

CMS is totally different and is related to Child Arrangements. You're supposed to be paying that now anyway. Are you paying anything at the moment? If you are, make sure it's paid by standing order with a reference - the reference should be "Child Maintenance". Otherwise she could say the payments were for something else and you haven't paid any child maintenance. You can either use the CMS calculator to work out how much you need to pay, or you can open a case yourself with CMS and ask them to do an assessment - either way you can still pay by standing order.

So if CMS is sorted and there's just the capital to sort, then it's possible you could get a solicitor to draw up a clean break order, splitting assets 50/50 by agreement. But I'm no expert on this.
 
But yes, you could email her solicitors and say - you wish to draw up a clean break order, that the only assets are £x of savings. You propose sharing these 50/50 and enclose a copy of the statement showing the balance. And request they contact their client to ask if she is in agreement. This is assuming there are no pensions. If she/they agree, then her solicitor can draw up the clean break order and I believe it can just be sent to court for sealing. You would need to have had legal advice from a solicitor, otherwise the court may want to see you both, if you haven't both had legal advice. Also you'd need a solicitor to check the wording of the order drawn up is ok and no tricks or hidden clauses.

There's more information here.

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk

What is a Clean Break Order?

In this blog, experienced divorce and family lawyer Sian Winter breaks down the key things divorcing couples need to know about clean break orders.
www.family-lawfirm.co.uk
 
thanks guys, please keep guiding me as i post more queries.

I do have a pension, and i am happy to share it, but how does it work, like i dont get pension money now, i assume i'll get it once i retire, by that time, do i need to get in touch with my x-wife again? like hello here is you 50% pension or, do i need to pay her now, if now i dont have it now? so i am confused how it work, the easiest would way would be, that she keep her small pension and i keep my pension that way we dont need to contact each other again
 
Ash said:
Financials and Child Arrangements are separate. I don't know much about the divorce financials - others do.
I doubt her solicitors will agree an out of court settlement that is fair - they will want to fleece you and act in their client's best interests.

If you want to try and do things out of court then, for Child Arrangements, you try mediation. But you can't do mediation due to the NMO. Likewise with divorce finances, it can be cheaper to resolve via mediation and agreements drawn up - but you can't do face to face mediation due to the NMO.

Is there any rush to divorce? Your ex has her housing sorted. I would focus on getting a Child Arrangements order, then let your ex start the divorce financials if she wants to.

A progressing order is not a legal term exactly, but a term the courts use. So they will know what you mean if you ask for a progressing order. The point of it is, if it doesn't progress you'd be stuck with no overnights. So you want it to progress to overnights, once you have your own place.

Do you have any pension sharing to consider? ie do either of you have a pension? If not and the only assets are the savings - then I guess it might be possible to agree something with her - ie split the savings - and get a solicitor to draw up a clean break order,

CMS is totally different and is related to Child Arrangements. You're supposed to be paying that now anyway. Are you paying anything at the moment? If you are, make sure it's paid by standing order with a reference - the reference should be "Child Maintenance". Otherwise she could say the payments were for something else and you haven't paid any child maintenance. You can either use the CMS calculator to work out how much you need to pay, or you can open a case yourself with CMS and ask them to do an assessment - either way you can still pay by standing order.

So if CMS is sorted and there's just the capital to sort, then it's possible you could get a solicitor to draw up a clean break order, splitting assets 50/50 by agreement. But I'm no expert on this.
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The only rush is that i like to move on, and she will never apply for divorce because she knows i havent done anything wrong and she just want it and if she apply herself she wont be able to justify to anyone or kids that why she filled divorce.

I like to sort financial asap so that i can get a property and move to overnight stays

At the moment I dont pay any child maintenance officially, i thought it'll be sorted in mediation but she denied mediation. but i am bearing all the known child costs like tuition, extra curricular activities or anything i know, all the kids related direct debits are still on. i believe if we share kids 50-50 i dont need to pay her anything? anyway i am happy to cover all kids cost but she needs to engage first and agree first.
 
I really don't know how it works in the future with pensions. I assume there would be an option with the pension company, to automatically pay out to you both separately, if this is specified and they see a relevant court order to that effect.

Ok so pension sharing is a financial aspect of divorce yes - if your pension is worth more than hers. I believe an option some people go for is to give a greater split of capital to the ex, in lieu of not sharing their pension. If your pensions are about the same then you could try to go for a simple divorce whereby you both keep your own pensions and capital is split 50/50 and a clean break order. You would need a solicitor at some point, to draw up the clean break order.

Actually that might be your best bet. Get a solicitor to draw up a clean break order stating both parties keep their respective pensions and capital of x sum will be split 50/50. Then send it to her solicitors seeking agreement.

However your ex and her solicitors are unlikely to agree anything financial for the divorce, all the while Child Arrangements are up in the air. For example if you have a 50/50 child arrangements order then there is no CM to pay and they may want a different deal on the divorce finances.

I guess you could get your solicitor to also draw up a consent order for child arrangements- 50/50 and see if they'll agree to that too.
 
As divorce application is already in progress, i'll try my best to sort it asap but in the meantime can the divorce go ahead and can we get a final divorce order if child/finance are still in the air?
 
am i not exempt from MIAM because of NMO? or do i still need to go through the process, i already have a expired miam certificate, please advise. thanks
 
"can the divorce go ahead and can we get a final divorce order if child/finance are still in the air?" I was advised by my solicitor that yes, you can get divorced before CAO and finances are sorted, but if other parties pension is greater than yours, it's better to wait. This is because after divorce you lose automatic rights to pension, although you'd still have to agree a financial settlement , which may effect pensions- my solicitor was suitably vague on that point. Don't know about exemptions due to NMO, but I'm sure others with that experience will fill you in.
 
The other thing is - once the divorce and finances are completed, your ex has all the power with the kids and it might cost you money to get to see them. So there is the argument that - better to spend the money to get an order for the kids than give it to the ex (ie there’ll be less to give).
 
that is also one of my questions, whats the date by which finances will be divided, is it the date we emotionally separated, the date i had to leave the house due to bail conditions or would that be the date judge grant the order or the date we apply for finances order in the court.
 
man.united332 said:
that is also one of my questions, whats the date by which finances will be divided, is it the date we emotionally separated, the date i had to leave the house due to bail conditions or would that be the date judge grant the order or the date we apply for finances order in the court.
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It's usually a point that needs to be agreed.

For the majority who seperate, it tends to be point at which you moved out for those that manage to stay in the home, it has to agreed where you both think the relationship ended.

Do you feel there was a natural end to the relation earlier than when you left the house?
 
I thi k it should be the day you finalise the order, as in my mind, it will align with the clean break order if one is sought and agreed to be signed

Have you got your AIP for a mortgage?
 
capa said:
I thi k it should be the day you finalise the order, as in my mind, it will align with the clean break order if one is sought and agreed to be signed

Have you got your AIP for a mortgage?
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AIP is in my plan to sort asap but still thinking whether to sort the financial first

for me it'd be better to agree a date when i had to leave the house.
 
MagicJ said:
It's usually a point that needs to be agreed.

For the majority who seperate, it tends to be point at which you moved out for those that manage to stay in the home, it has to agreed where you both think the relationship ended.

Do you feel there was a natural end to the relation earlier than when you left the house?
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for a good period of time we lived under one roof but not as husband and wife.
 
man.united332 said:
AIP is in my plan to sort asap but still thinking whether to sort the financial first

for me it'd be better to agree a date when i had to leave the house.
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I'd get the AIP as soon as ,took me 10 mins on phone with bank who I bank with, and its required to send in with form e, as stated by the form c
 
Are you planning to go to court for financials? If you are then ypu need a form e and along with that a form c is attached, which stipulates add o s needed and the days for everything g to be submitted by
 
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