Advice What can I do???

[DB2021]

This is not normal at all. I would suggest putting something in writing to the social worker, then follow up with it when you speak to them. If things are in writing they can't fob you off so much - and it's always evidence. I remember a Dad who was a social worker advising to always put something in writing if you have concerns and if they get more than five things they have to act on it. (This is just from memory, not necessarily 100% correct and relates more to when you're reporting concerns). But it's always good to politely put a concern in writing with reasons.

I’ve tried that a few weeks ago I emailed her listing my concerns and the reasons behind them and I got nothing it always reverts back to what’s happened in there lives recently and she always says well I’ve got a little girl telling me this ie she doesn’t want to spend time with me.

She is 100% saying that how my daughter is feeling and what she is saying is the most important thing and she’s only listening to that not anything I’ve got to say she said the same this afternoon when she called me.

Maybe I don’t write things the way they should be written and if I was better at putting my point across I may have gotten a better response.

 

[Resolute]

No peanut is correct she said she would be angry if I came to pick her up at all and she said the same when the social worker said well what if I come and get you and take you to daddy’s house she gave the same response.

I still think that is her saying how she feels about a situation rather than how she feels about you as a person. I think she already indicated that the root of this is a fear of losing her mum. I can see room for understanding this as something other than feeling angry with you per se, she could feel angry because of fears she is confronted by which are separate from you.

 

[Ash]

I'm probably a bit more cynical than that! I think it's directly related to time becoming unsupervised - the next stage of the order (ie the Mother's reaction). I have also had a child interviewed by a social worker who was adamant these were my son's actual wishes and feelings until I mentioned a few things that made her think twice and she changed her opinion. The SW told me - he doesn't love you. He only loves Mum. Yeah right. That was from a chart and a piece of paper and he was doing what he'd been told to do - primed in advance by Mum.

 

[Ash]

The reason I was asking if it was Cafcass or SS is if it was Cafcass you could ask for a different Cafcass officer. Not entirely sure if you can do this with a social worker. But what you can do is prove a SW report flawed in court.

 

[Resolute]

Here is something that has helped lots of kids in the type of situation your daughter is in, including my own:

The Invisible String: 1 https://amzn.eu/d/2iNZfOL

 

[DB2021]

I still think that is her saying how she feels about a situation rather than how she feels about you as a person. I think she already indicated that the root of this is a fear of losing her mum. I can see room for understanding this as something other than feeling angry with you per se, she could feel angry because of fears she is confronted by which are separate from you.

Yeah I completely agree with you there which is why I’m reluctant to go back to court because if I’m wrong and it is down to her fears etc then I could make things so much more worse.

But then as Ash has just said I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this has all happened right before unsupervised time was due. Especially since my ex has made it clear to Cafcass and The social worker that she never wanted that to happen but now supposedly is doing everything she can to encourage things.

It’s why I’m so torn with everything I feel like im stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Ash]

That is not good for your mind and sanity feeling stuck. And it's partly why orders are there to be enforced if they're not working. Court is also about resolving issues and reaching solutions and courts like people to try and reach reasonable agreements if possible and in an environment at court that is encouraged to happen. Also the court can assess for themselves what they think the Mother's attitude was.

The problem is if trying to decide what to do and getting distressed leads you to having problems coping, it does mean something needs to be done. Since you started giving the jiffy bags (great idea) it seems your ex is pushing back harder. Your daughter is rejecting you. Yes they could explain it away with anxiety over Mum grieving and losing grandma and the timing etc, and possible get a solution in place which the Mother is on board with - temporarily if they think that. But alarm bells should ring if a 5 year old child is rejecting a parent and showing hate or anger.

Obviously the SW has scared you a bit about the idea of going back to court. But you need a solution. What are you supposed to do - just go away? The other reason I think it needs to go back to court is - if you do nothing, it is as if you have accepted the changed arrangements and you went through all that to get an order for nothing and it end up being a worthless piece of paper.

If it was me I would send the letter before action, giving the Mother the opportunity to make it happen and if it doesn;t on the next occasion, put the enforcement application in so the courts are aware their order is not being followed. At least then, even if the order is varied and supervised is extended a bit longer - you are not in breach of an order yourself. Sadly if no action is taken with breaches it becomes accepted as agreement and the order is changed. You can make suggestions and proposals and solutions in your court application and sound reasonable.

Some of the things you overheard your ex saying are outrageous - I am not sure if you're maybe just feelign sorry for her due to the bereavement. But your priority is ensuring your child doesn't lose a relationship with you.

At times like this - no decision leads to a downward spiral of stress, self doubt and uncertainty. So sometimes any decision is better than none. A decision to ask the court to try and help resolve the matter, or a decision to do nothing - while being fully aware of the consequences of doing nothing.

There is a middle ground - which I think you have tried already. Your ex has the power to keep your daughter at home. The only power you have is someone more important than your ex telling her what she must do.

 

[Resolute]

There are at least two layers here, the reason she is not coming with you certainly goes back to mum. That is obvious from your accounts of when you have gone to collect her, in that sense I agree with Ash.

But, there is also how she balances mum's influence in her head. It seems to me that she has directed her objection/anger towards potential events, rather than towards you as a person.

I would want to resolve things before time with dad becomes a distant memory.

 

[DB2021]

That is not good for your mind and sanity feeling stuck. And it's partly why orders are there to be enforced if they're not working. Court is also about resolving issues and reaching solutions and courts like people to try and reach reasonable agreements if possible and in an environment at court that is encouraged to happen. Also the court can assess for themselves what they think the Mother's attitude was.

The problem is if trying to decide what to do and getting distressed leads you to having problems coping, it does mean something needs to be done. Since you started giving the jiffy bags (great idea) it seems your ex is pushing back harder. Your daughter is rejecting you. Yes they could explain it away with anxiety over Mum grieving and losing grandma and the timing etc, and possible get a solution in place which the Mother is on board with - temporarily if they think that. But alarm bells should ring if a 5 year old child is rejecting a parent and showing hate or anger.

Obviously the SW has scared you a bit about the idea of going back to court. But you need a solution. What are you supposed to do - just go away? The other reason I think it needs to go back to court is - if you do nothing, it is as if you have accepted the changed arrangements and you went through all that to get an order for nothing and it end up being a worthless piece of paper.

If it was me I would send the letter before action, giving the Mother the opportunity to make it happen and if it doesn;t on the next occasion, put the enforcement application in so the courts are aware their order is not being followed. At least then, even if the order is varied and supervised is extended a bit longer - you are not in breach of an order yourself. Sadly if no action is taken with breaches it becomes accepted as agreement and the order is changed. You can make suggestions and proposals and solutions in your court application and sound reasonable.

Some of the things you overheard your ex saying are outrageous - I am not sure if you're maybe just feelign sorry for her due to the bereavement. But your priority is ensuring your child doesn't lose a relationship with you.

At times like this - no decision leads to a downward spiral of stress, self doubt and uncertainty. So sometimes any decision is better than none. A decision to ask the court to try and help resolve the matter, or a decision to do nothing - while being fully aware of the consequences of doing nothing.

There is a middle ground - which I think you have tried already. Your ex has the power to keep your daughter at home. The only power you have is someone more important than your ex telling her what she must

I do think your right I have to fight no matter the outcome as doing nothing only strengthens mams position.

The social worker really has knocked me down I agree with that her dismissiveness has really made me feel like I’m wrong for worrying and that how I feel and my concerns mean nothing.

 

[DB2021]

There are at least two layers here, the reason she is not coming with you certainly goes back to mum. That is obvious from your accounts of when you have gone to collect her, in that sense I agree with Ash.

But, there is also how she balances mum's influence in her head. It seems to me that she has directed her objection/anger towards potential events, rather than towards you as a person.

I would want to resolve things before time with dad becomes a distant memory.

Ohhh I don’t think for a second my daughter is angry at me personally or that she hates me I have thousands of pictures videos etc that show our love for each other which give me comfort.

I think ask is right that at least court gives me the chance to air my concerns and to at least ask for help which clearly isn’t going to come from the social worker who is supposed to be supporting the progression of contact.

I guess I’m just scared of court and what may come of it not only in court but my ex’s actions because I’ve taken it back there which is down to my own insecurity and lack of strength.

 

[Resolute]

I do not think what you need to achieve is going to get easier while you wait, quite the opposite.

Also, I cannot see that a parent who behaves as your ex has recently is going to change without imposition from the court.

But, if you need to take some time over doing this for your own wellbeing, you have to look after yourself first. If you ever do first aid training, the major point is to make sure you are safe before you try helping anybody else. If you are not safe and well, you cannot help those in need.

 

[Ash]

I think we all feel like that about going to court. All I can say is in my experience, it's better to get on with it than continue with the stress of the current situation. I was once advised to wait before reapplying to court. "Wait till she's done a few more bad things" - the theory being that I would have more to go back with and it would have been a year since the last application. My gut told me to do something straight away because of the effect it was having on my son. All I can say the stress of waiting with more and more pain, was worse than the stress of trying to get it dealt with in court. Every situation is different, but I regretted waiting. It got sorted in the end but she had already done enough to warrant going back to court. The only difference was I had a very stressful summer and it was making me ill.

Basically - we need help with these things. If we need a court order in the first place and it's not being followed - the court is the place to help get it followed. It is simply that - your ex is not following the court order.

I can see the concern about enforcement. For it to be a clear breach there has to be "no reasonable excuse" and she will probably say the death of her Mother is a reasonable excuse. There is no real punishment for breaching anyway. The aim is to make the order work whether that's by amending it so it works or telling the Mother to follow it or else.

Ignore the social worker. The point is - you are not getting to spend time with your child and you were doing perfectly fine.

One other thing - do you and your ex communicate at all? Have you tried persuading her (as in more than the letter before action?)

You know the old thing - feel the fear and do it anyway. Because it's better than living with the fear.

 

[Ash]

I think the letter before action is enough to show you have tried to resolve it before applying to court

"Dear Ex Name

I am just writing to ask you to fulfill your obligations under the Child Arrangements order dated xxxxxxxxxxxxx. It is a parent's responsibility to ensure the order is followed and our daughter spends time with me as per the court order. Please can you confirm that x will be available to collect at x time on x day, as per the court order, and that you will not discourage her from coming but instead, ensure she is ready with everything she needs and let her know that Daddy is going to spend some time with her and you are happy for her to go.

Kind regards, you"

 

[DB2021]

We don’t really communicate as she’s one of those that just won’t listen to reason.

It’s her view that it’s our daughters choice and she won’t make her spend time with me. She’s said give it time and if it takes 3/6 months a year then so be it.

I do think I need to email the social worker again at the very least to explain my views and also that it’s recorded that I’ve raised concerns with her. I just need to make sure it’s worded the right way.

I think my biggest fear is that I go to court and get a judge that feels sorry for my ex and that I end up being given less than I have now. I’ve read about fathers who have tried and tried at court and they end up with nothing because the court views it as causing the child damage when it’s clearly obvious that it’s the mother.

But I do agree I have to face it risks and all otherwise as resolute said time with daddy will become a distant memory.

 

[Peanut 21]

We don’t really communicate as she’s one of those that just won’t listen to reason.

It’s her view that it’s our daughters choice and she won’t make her spend time with me. She’s said give it time and if it takes 3/6 months a year then so be it.

I do think I need to email the social worker again at the very least to explain my views and also that it’s recorded that I’ve raised concerns with her. I just need to make sure it’s worded the right way.

I think my biggest fear is that I go to court and get a judge that feels sorry for my ex and that I end up being given less than I have now. I’ve read about fathers who have tried and tried at court and they end up with nothing because the court views it as causing the child damage when it’s clearly obvious that it’s the mother.

But I do agree I have to face it risks and all otherwise as resolute said time with daddy will become a distant memory.

My partners ex was saying the kids can make their own decisions from a very young age. Wrong. At 5 they need guidance and strong boundaries to make them feel safe.
I totally understand your fear of the court set up but feel you need to take this risk in applying to vary/enforce (which ever one is apt) ASAP.
In 3-6 months time a kid doesn't suddenly say "right mum I'm ready to see dad now". That's classic stalling tactics to influence the kid more.
The SW sounds appalling. You have genuine concerns and she's dismissing them and getting into your head that you're wrong. You're not.
Have faith in yourself. There's no harm in sometimes losing mental strength, you're only human.

 

[DB2021]

My partners ex was saying the kids can make their own decisions from a very young age. Wrong. At 5 they need guidance and strong boundaries to make them feel safe.
I totally understand your fear of the court set up but feel you need to take this risk in applying to vary/enforce (which ever one is apt) ASAP.
In 3-6 months time a kid doesn't suddenly say "right mum I'm ready to see dad now". That's classic stalling tactics to influence the kid more.
The SW sounds appalling. You have genuine concerns and she's dismissing them and getting into your head that you're wrong. You're not.
Have faith in yourself. There's no harm in sometimes losing mental strength, you're only human.

Thanx peanut your words really are a comfort everyone’s are I’d be lost if I hadn’t found this group.

I’m going to email the social worker again with my concerns and reasons behind them not so she does anything as she clearly has made it clear she won’t but so that I can show that I’ve tried multiple times with her. I have a child in need meeting next week with her and my ex so I’m also going to raise things there and make it clear that my ex should be encouraging our daughter and letting her know she’s safe with me.

I have my down days where I really struggle with things but I know I won’t ever give up, I just need to stop worrying and overthinking everything.

I may lose at court and get less but at least I will be able to show my little girl that I tried everything if the worst is to happen.

 

[Ash]

I don't think it's as black and white as losing and winning or getting less time. Obviously the other side and your ex will take take take if they can. But it's about asking for the matter to be resolved and even a progressive increase in time. All you need is a judge to say. Unsupervised must start now and tell the Mother to do it - no excuses. Judges are used to excuses.

 

[DB2021]

I don't think it's as black and white as losing and winning or getting less time. Obviously the other side and your ex will take take take if they can. But it's about asking for the matter to be resolved and even a progressive increase in time. All you need is a judge to say. Unsupervised must start now and tell the Mother to do it - no excuses. Judges are used to excuses.

Yeah again I think my use of words is not the best.

I think the social worker really knocked my confidence yesterday so I’m just taking a bit of time to reset my head and get back to seeing clearly.

I want to get next weeks meeting out the way and I’ll gauge from there where everything is at, as knowing the social worker she will bang on about the significant loss and I don’t mean that as insensitive as it may seam but I’m pretty much being told that’s the reason suck it up.

 

[Ash]

I know that feeling. But the social worker doesn't make court orders. And social workers don't understand parental alienation (usually) and courts do. But don't use that term in any court papers (PA).

 

[Ash]

Yeah again I think my use of words is not the best.

I think the social worker really knocked my confidence yesterday so I’m just taking a bit of time to reset my head and get back to seeing clearly.

I want to get next weeks meeting out the way and I’ll gauge from there where everything is at, as knowing the social worker she will bang on about the significant loss and I don’t mean that as insensitive as it may seam but I’m pretty much being told that’s the reason suck it up.

Well putting something in writing in advance will help and she might pull her socks up a bit and start looking at the bigger picture.