Advice for complex case

[StayStrong]

Quick responses:

This is not the email to be raising any future arrangements. Keep this business like and focused on the immediate needs.

There's on oe C100 and her response. She is the respondent, you are the applicant, it is a single case.

It's unfortunate you have already stated 'lives with', but water still has to flow under the bridge, Stay Strong.

 

[Ash]

It's frustrating but you need to keep most of that for a position statement for a hearing. Emailing the Judge at this stage needs to be very brief. As a kind of update on something to do with the situation that is very significant - and it may help speed up a hearing date. This isn't the stage to be asking to change your application unfortunately, and wouldn't go down well IMO.

When it comes to doing a position statement for a hearing, you could then say that in view of the way things have gone since you first applied, you respectfully request the court to make an order for "lives with both parents" on a 70/30 basis.

Now of course with the distance you can't be back and forth for week-ends and midweek overnights. So you'd may be asking for one week-end a month seeing them in the Uk and more than half the school holidays (staying with you) to make up for missed midweek time. Assume it means flights to be able to see you and long journey times? But I wouldn't worry about that right now.

At the moment your email is a brief thing - which will hopefully get things moving again. Maybe no more than a paragraph. You don't want to start annoying the Judge by trying to "jump the queue" so to speak but they do take notice when you mention the childrens welfare in the interim. And yes feel free to send me a draft. I'm sure C&A Dad will have some good pointers too.

 

[Ash]

Posted at the same time as Stay Strong who is spot on.

 

[Hobnob]

Update....

Hi guys, thanks for all the advice so far, after my gatekeeping hearing I now have a first hearing listed for the 10th of May. It will have taken 5 months almost to get to a first hearing since filing the c100 , and things have deteriorated significantly in that time. I did email the judge just before they listed for this, asking for a more urgent hearing but have had no reply yet.

A quick recap for you all, I live abroad with my partner, and since covid measures have been removed, I have tried to spend time with my children on my own for now, over a weekend once a month every month. There have been 3 of these visits agreed to, only the first was I allowed to have my children overnight and since then it's been unsupervised daytime contact. On the first and second visit only my youngest of 3 children agreed to come with me, and on my last visit my middle child came too. My 12 year old son has completely refused to spend time with me and I've only seen him once briefly at the door where he snubbed me. During the time I had to spend away from them due to the lockdowns and travel rules, my telephone contact with them has been increasingly disrupted to the point where now I have to call via the ex phone and I get silence from the children on the other end. I send messages to my elder 2 children who have their own phones, I get the occasional one word reply "yes", "no", "fine", "nothing", from my son and no replies at all from my middle daughter. When I had my girls they were so happy with me, we had such a fantastic time together, then after I've taken them home I'm completely stonewalled. Not my children's fault at all, they are being controlled and conditioned by the narcissist with various manipulation tactics and utter hostility towards me and my partner.

I've tried all the suggested things, appeals to co-parent, appeals to reinstate/promote their relationship with me to no avail, much of which is detailed throughout this thread.
In my initial c100 application (fired off very hastily after failed mediation attempt, and prior to joining this group). I did make allegations against my ex for PA, emotional and psychological abuse of myself and the children and also financial abuse of myself.
I gave very brief information on the form, not going into any detail at all. On the response ex stated she denies all allegations in their entirety and she said there was no domestic abuse from either side. She wrote she can dispute my allegations but doesn't feel she needs to do so yet.
Cafcass didn't ask me for any details around my allegations and wrote that the mother is promoting contact. But they did write in their report that I have alleged obstruction.
Now I have the letter from the court regarding the first hearing it states under safeguarding issues "domestic abuse". I can only assume this relates to my claims and nothing from the ex.

I already know that with hindsight I shouldn't have put PA on the c100 but what's done is done and now I have to represent myself in court to show the judge that my children are being manipulated and harmed whilst being completely child-focused and not negative about the mother.
Social services are involved too after I reported concerns to them about the children after recent phone calls.

My question is, what do I need to include in my first position statement? I've seen the template on here so know how it must be presented, but I'm unsure for the first hearing what I must include and set out. I also hastily sent a "framework of contact" to Cafcass which I need to retract. I wasn't asking for nearly enough time with my children and I also wrote "lives with mother", not knowing this would automatically give her a lives with order. Im hopeful I joined this group just in time to rectify my mistakes before we go to court.
Any ideas how this first hearing will unfold? I have many more questions and I'm reading all the posts to get as much insight as possible.

Wasn't sure if I should have started a new thread on this one or just keep adding updates here, I guess it could become very lengthy!

 

[Ash]

Hi. One step at a time. Your ex has been clever saying there is no domestic abuse on either side. If she had made allegations back it would be seen as conflict between parents. When only one parent is making allegations then it is seen as one parent being hostile against the other. That's probably why they had the gatekeeping hearing.

The positives are - as the process goes along, the initial application can sometimes get overlooked somewhat and the situation at the present time dealt with. So from now on you have the opportunity to have a different stance in terms of use of language and tone in position statements, to persuade and keep it child focused.

There is so much negative press right now about "abusive Dads" accusing parental alienation that it's a tricky area for a Dad to bring up. And one reason is - it's a bit like going to the Doctors. If you go to the Doctors and tell them what's wrong with you, they don't like it. They think they are the experts who should decide what's wrong with you, after you've explained the symptoms you're having. So think of it a bit like that. Give them the symptoms - let them work out what the problem is. And gently drop hints along the way,

I wouldn't email the court again now. You have a hearing date. Did Cafcass make any recommendations in the report? A section 7? Sounds like they didn't. They are clearly slightly negative towards you by saying you "allege" obstruction. But try not to worry about that. How you present yourself in person and on paper from now on will help. your ex of course will be being perfect and saying how she tries to encourage the children but they just don't want to go.

Just keep making notes and records. too soon to write a position statement yet. You need to be sending one in about two weeks before the hearing.

The idea of the first hearing is that an interim order is made pending a final hearing. I would not ask for a fact finding hearing. Because the allegations are only on one side and you don't have enough evidence. I would try and let it calmly go through to a final hearing sounding child focused the whole time.

 

[Hobnob]

Hi Ash,

Thanks for the reply. I get what you're saying. I have lots of evidence of the ex's hostility towards me and her written refusal to co-parent, multiple emails telling me I am not needed, she is the sole parent and to stop asking her for more time with the children, that I have all the contact I need etc. Cafcass recommended shuttle mediation, but we already tried this once before and got no further than the intake meetings as she pulled out. Cafcass did say perhaps the children would benefit from a child impact report and this is what I would like to push for, so their voices can be heard. Someone has to connect the dots and see what the mother is doing to the children to cause them to reject me in between visits, and/or refuse to come out with me. Without that, and without proper support support for the children, an order won't be worth the paper it's written on. She's already told me that Cafcass and the court will not make her force the children to see me.

The ex has also intimated with veiled threats that she "will not hesitate" to bring to the court's attention the reasons she believes the children are rejecting me. Blaming me for everything from my own suffering at the hands of my own alienating mother, to my supposed abandonment of my own children, again I can disprove this.

I wonder if they will order a section 7 although Cafcass haven't recommended it. I am actually exempt from mediation and as I've already tried once and failed, I'll have to tell the court I don't believe it is in the children's best interests to risk further delay with a second attempt.

So I'll hold off on a position statement for now. Like you say the situation could vastly change (most likely for the worst) between now and then.

 

[Ash]

She's already told me that Cafcass and the court will not make her force the children to see me.

Ignore what she says, she's just trying to get to you and make you believe she and Cafcass are best pals. Mine does that.

We don't actually know what they mean by "domestic abuse" in their report - because it isn't clear! As your ex has said there wasn't any by either parent, then for all we know, they could be referring to her as an alienator. But then they comment on you "alleging" she is being obstructive, which kind of says you're making accusations against her which may or may not be true.

To be honest it sounds like a typical non committal Cafcass letter where they're sitting on the fence and don't know whats what. Or they do suspect the Mother is alienating but are sitting on the fence because they will never say anything against a Mother!

The fact they haven't ordered a Section 7 has pros and cons. The pros are - it suggests they don't see you as a risk. The cons are - they don't seem to be taking the alienation seriously. And it all suggests they aren't going to speak to the children. Although they can do that without a section 7,

This process is tough, uncertain and prolonged for all of us. But basically you just need to try and stay sane, have patience, and jump through hoops and wait till you get to final hearing. Once there, you can present all your evidence. But what's also important is that you ask for an order that will work to prevent her continuing such things. No point proving what she's doing if an order doesn't stop her doing it.

So try and stop worrying for now.

1) You have a first hearing date next month
2) Cafcass letter doesn't claim welfare issues or recommend a section 7.

What that means is the case is proceeding as a normal case where parents can't agree arrangements or the Mother is witholding the kids. They might try to get you to agree at the first hearing - or they might not - they might order mediation at the first hearing (to try and resolve some issues before final hearing), they might not. They will make an interim order at the first hearing, if you ask for that in a position statement. So from the point of final hearing you should have a regular schedule of the continuing one week-end a month, until it gets to final hearing.

She may breach this and claim she can't make the kids come still. You keep records of this. You see how things go. In a way the more bad stuff she does between now and the final hearing, the more things will be in your favour.

So this argument - she can't make the kids see you. The court will tell her she must follow the order they make and it's her responsibility to ensure she encourages time with both parents and makes sure the order is followed.

If you have a barrister at the final hearing who wipes the floor with her and turns her into a bag of jelly, she might actually follow the order. There could also be some particular clauses you ask to have in the final order, as a deterrant to her breaching.

I wouldn't be thinking about getting the kids involved in anything right now. It probably won't work if your ex is pressurising them. What your kids need is "permission" to see you and encouragement. Until you get to see them regularly they can't have a perspective and be loyal to both parents.

 

[Hobnob]

Hi guys,

Quick update on my case. After emailing the judge due to complete breakdown in the telephone calls between me and the children in between visits with the children, the judge has agreed to bring my FHDRA forward. I don't yet have a date but should find out on Monday. Hopefully it will be very soon.

I need to get my position statement written, it will be my first one. I also need to completely change the Framework of contact I initially sent to Cafcass. It asked for far too little time with the kids.

I live abroad and currently see the kids once a month for a weekend with overnight stays denied by my ex. I want to have the kids one weekend a month including overnight and then longer periods with me in the holidays.

As this is all quality time and I'm unable to see them midweek with travel, can I go for a shared care order or would it have to be lives with mum spends time with dad? What's the minimum I have to be with the kids to achieve a shared care order?
So far my ex is refusing to allow me to have them for holidays either in the UK or where I live. I absolutely need this to be written in to the order.

What do I ask for at this stage? The order absolutely will need to be defined because ex won't be flexible and will try to disrupt.
She's already ensured the children are not available for 3 weeks in June to include my son's birthday and both weekends either side of his birthday.
I've asked her, with 16 weeks notice for dates for July, and now almost 4 weeks later I'm still waiting for dates after several reminders sent.
So the weekends need to be defined with the possibility of moving them to fall on the kids birthdays on alternate years, or close to their birthdays when they fall midweek.

I also want to have the kids on alternate Christmas and to share all of the school holidays.
Any advice on how to set out the defined order I'm asking for and also at what point do I put this to the judge. I didn't ask for what I wanted on the c100, the contact I asked for via Cafcass was far too little - I was fearful of getting nothing.

Any advice appreciated....?

For background recap - Cafcass have identified safegaurding issues against the ex as I have alleged domestic abuse via PA and financial abuse, currently they have advised for either shuttle mediation and/or a child impact assessment, but I'm prepared for the court to want to order fact find in relation to my allegations.

 

[Hobnob]

Hi guys, bumping my post from my last question, if anyone can share some thoughts, would be much appreciated.

 

[Ash]

Hi. That's good you're getting an earlier hearing. Try not to worry too much about the details of the final order at this stage - that isn't going to happen quickly. I would think the directions hearing will do an interim order for the same time as now - one week-end a month. And if you ask for it, in a position statement, it may order interim holiday periods as well. So yes you need to put a position statement together. Have a look at the samplem one (which I think you already have previously). And change the details to fit yours. Explain the current issues and at the end say under the circumstances you wish to change your application to 50/50 shared care and in the meantime ask for an interim order for the children to stay over with you one week-end a month from x date, a week at May half term and a couple of weeks in the summer - while matters are proceeding.

It's really tricky when things take a long time. I am not sure how much remit the Judge has to make an interim order for holidays until a Cafcass section 7 is complete but I don't see why not when their letter found no welfare issues with you.

 

[Ash]

To answer your question, it is possible to have shared care while living in different countries - it's unusual but it has happened. You'd be needing to ask for most of the school holidays in that case, which they may not like as means the Mother would only get about two weeks holidays a year. It might be better to ask for 60/40 shared care. But - it depends - because if cafcass decide she is alienating the kids they may be thinking about change of residency (I think that is very unlikely as I've never heard of Cafcass recommending change of residency - it's usually Judges or psychologists who recommend that).

I don't actually think she has done enough yet to warrant that (strange as it may seem). At the moment it will be looked at as obstruction and witholding time with the kids.

There are 13 weeks school holidays a year and 52 week-ends a year. If you were only seeing them one week-end a month that would be 12 week-ends a year (24 nights). If you had eleven of the 13 weeks school holidays a year that would only make another 77 nights. Which is 101 nights a year - still not quite a third of the time (shared care usually needs to be at least a third of the time overall). But it's not far off.

I think what would be preferred would be every other week-end and all but four weeks holiday a year (so they were with your ex two weeks in summer, a week at Easter and a week at Christmas with all the half terms with you).

Presumably with the travel and distance, every other week-end wouldn't be possible.