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Advice for complex case
- Thread starter Hobnob
- Start date
Would be interested to see what the others think, but that might change things. I think maybe tread carefully- when you do come to apply for an order it’s a safe bet that the reactions of the kids will be used to support the stance of ‘no contact’
Hard to hear I know, but it’s unlikely the situation is going to resolve itself in advance of this next call, I’d get that key message across and leave it if they don’t want to talk.
You can then present that you’re being sensitive to the situation and now looking for the court’s assistance to progress the relationship. Any unpleasantness on the calls and all that will get used against you to justify why you should have no contact.
That’s just my gut feel by the way, someone else might have a different view- just think that without an order in place you haven’t got anything to enforce, may be better to get the order then you have some leverage on the situation?
Sorry my mistake. You've had the Cafcass call and report and there was a safeguarding hearing and you don't have a date for FHDRA yet. So basically anything you're currently getting re time and phone calls is via agreement with the ex, is that right? Keep notes.
So whose idea was it for the phone calls? Did she suggest it or you. I'm actually surprised she's agreeing to it at all if it's not ordered. However, playing devils advocate for a moment:
She wants it to be on her phone and be there as you've applied to court and she is wary - and worried the kids might say something that doesn't do her any favours. (Not saying this is reasonable at all but it will be her stance). So the kids will feel in the middle. They can say one thing to one parent and one thing to the other parent - to try and keep both onside. Not lying exactly but just under pressure.
How often are the phone calls? Take positive feelings from the fact the visits were good even if the calls aren't. And good advice from other Dads re how to manage the phone calls.
Maybe for now focus on finding out a date for FHDRA - there should be a hearing date issued after the Gatekeeping hearing, so if you haven't heard anything by the end of this week, maybe phone the court again on Monday.
I am not sure (as Gatekeeping hearings seem to be a new thing) but I believe you should get some paperwork after that saying what's been recommended to happen next.
However, if they are taking the alienation seriously then they may be careful not to share documents with parents too much. But you should get something.
Hi Ash bit of background.
When we split there was the inevitable fallout which I expected. I also expected it to calm down after a time. Straight after the split I was seeing the kids daily and was able to talk to them on the phone whenever I wanted, I basically had unrestricted access whilst I was having contact with her.
When I moved country I was still having regular contact with my kids, again this was dependent on having contact with her.
At this point I didn't forsee any problems with contact. I returned to the UK after 6 weeks and spent 4 days with my kids at the house, again this was dependent on contact with her. After this I cut the daily contact with her as it was distressing my partner and I also knew that it wasn't the right thing to do.
A few weeks later she got my son to ask me to go to the house to collect a present for my mothers birthday. I went to the house with my partner (soon to be wife) and my step kids. She came out was acting all nice and friendly. When I returned home there was a heated telephone argument and she told me my kids hated me and never wanted to see me again. She's threatened many times that I would lose my kids if I remained with my partner.
Despite this I was still having pretty regular contact with my kids, although there is countless emails from me asking why they weren't available/distracted and so on.
When the travel restrictions came in to force I was simply unable to return to the UK, but again was having pretty regular phone contact. Once I was able to return to see my kids I contacted her to let her know. Her first response was along the lines of "That's great news" so I'm thinking this is all good I'll get back to see them and there will be no problems. How wrong I was. After a few days she started dictating, asking where I was staying, what I would be doing and so on. I kept my replies polite and to the point.
I only had my youngest on this occasion but we had an amazing time. I made the mistake of buying her a phone as she had said repeatedly she wanted to speak with me everyday. This was soon removed from her.
The ex sent me an email stating that all contact must now go through her phone and that she will monitor all calls and messages. She also stated that I have to let her know of my whereabouts at all times when I have the kids. Later she sent me an email stating that I can contact my youngest via email and gave me the email address. She also stated that she will not be checking them daily. She told me I could only have telephone calls on the 2 days we agreed. These calls are stressful for the kids and also me as she constantly interjects and speaks for the kids.
After having a wonderful time with both of my daughters at the weekend I'm now getting stonewalled again. Not even an hello. It's absolutely heartbreaking
Forgot to add ... On that first return visit I expected to have all of my children but as I said only my youngest agreed to come with me. I was allowed to have her overnight. Soon after that visit, the ex emailed to say she was "misguided" to allow it and refused any further overnight contact until she decides. She told Cafcass that one stay with me resulted in 6 weeks of bedtime problems for my daughter. I had no problems with getting her to sleep for me and she woke up happy and rested. (Bedtime problems have gone on with youngest since she was 18months old and ex admits this in a recent email. Only ever a problem when the ex is involved in bedtime, never a problem for me - I don't plan to say this though as that's negative about the ex 
).
Also, in relation to the telephone contact, she has stated to Cafcass that my calls cause her anxiety and cause the children to become angry and frustrated.
She has also stated my messages to the kids are not "child-focused" and vaguely accused me of harassing the kids - she told Cafcass I messaged my son 20 times in one day grilling him as to why he wouldn't speak to me. I can prove this is a lie. My messages are always "have a great day, how was school, love you and miss you", or sharing things with them I've seen, photos etc... always age appropriate. The messages she refers to were a rare exchange of about 20 messages when I managed to get him to engage with me, it was lighthearted and I ended it reminding him that I'm always there for him and he can talk to me if he wants to about how he feels but there's no pressure. I don't feel this was inappropriate. At that she warned me that if I continued to send messages she felt were "overwhelming" for the children she would put a stop to it.
I'm emailing the court today to ask for my hearing date to be listed as soon as possible and I need interim contact. Is it worth adding something about these phone calls because with the ex's constant supervision and insistence I go through her phone and not the kids phones (they wouldn't answer anyway anymore), the contact is non-existent and causes them so much distress and me so much anxiety.
I don't want to stop the calls, as you've all said, don't refuse any offer of contact, but she's using them as an opportunity for further abuse of me and the kids and further ammunition to justify limiting, or I fear, stopping my contact altogether...
Any further advice on this?
).Also, in relation to the telephone contact, she has stated to Cafcass that my calls cause her anxiety and cause the children to become angry and frustrated.
She has also stated my messages to the kids are not "child-focused" and vaguely accused me of harassing the kids - she told Cafcass I messaged my son 20 times in one day grilling him as to why he wouldn't speak to me. I can prove this is a lie. My messages are always "have a great day, how was school, love you and miss you", or sharing things with them I've seen, photos etc... always age appropriate. The messages she refers to were a rare exchange of about 20 messages when I managed to get him to engage with me, it was lighthearted and I ended it reminding him that I'm always there for him and he can talk to me if he wants to about how he feels but there's no pressure. I don't feel this was inappropriate. At that she warned me that if I continued to send messages she felt were "overwhelming" for the children she would put a stop to it.
I'm emailing the court today to ask for my hearing date to be listed as soon as possible and I need interim contact. Is it worth adding something about these phone calls because with the ex's constant supervision and insistence I go through her phone and not the kids phones (they wouldn't answer anyway anymore), the contact is non-existent and causes them so much distress and me so much anxiety.
I don't want to stop the calls, as you've all said, don't refuse any offer of contact, but she's using them as an opportunity for further abuse of me and the kids and further ammunition to justify limiting, or I fear, stopping my contact altogether...
Any further advice on this?
Sounds familiar. 
. It is very common for this to happen when you have a new partner. And all this controlling behaviour is probably because she doesn’t want your partner involved and fears the kids leaving her or something. Although no amount of reassurance makes a difference I found - so there’s jealousy and rage as well.
Sounds familiar as I didn’t see my son during the first lockdown but my ex also tried to prevent phone calls as well. She got to like having him there all the time and it was a massive struggle to get to see him again and see him regularly. And infuriated her that he wanted to come (horrible of her not thinking about him missing me). The only reason I managed the leverage was because I already had a good court order. However she is still messing about with holiday dates a lot even now. She really really enjoyed having carte Blanche and a “normal family life” for a while. But no excuse to try and amputate a parent!
Your ex is trying it on because she just doesn’t want it. And think the courts will help you.
Have you ever had staying over time since separation? It sounds like not. And from the start she shouldn’t have been making the time at your old home with her present. I think all along she has been controlling who was with you when you saw the kids.
Having said that, while I understand your partner not liking the regular contact between you and the ex, that is expected for co parenting about the children - but nothing more. So although some regular communication might be needed it’s ok as long as it’s about the kids. My partner also found it a bit much at first and it caused arguments until I shared the communications with her and we both decided of I should reply at various times and what to say and keep it brief and child focused. But at one point my ex was texting constantly and at antisocial hours and clearly trying to cause issues.
It settled down when she met her H but then later there were different problems (wanting to cut me out once she had a family life).
Do you have much communication with your ex now? Just wondering if there’s any chance of talking to her and trying to sort things out. Assume you’ve tried mediation.
Kind of calm her down a bit? Say you want to work together for the kids sake bit just have visits with them. Make the odd suggestion about their future schooling or something.
One thing a Judge suggested at my final hearing was that both parents send a positive email about the child once a week saying something good the child had done or enjoyed. To get communication child focused. Which in my case was a bit of a joke as my ex was incapable of anything like that and refused to communicate with me at all. It was necessary sometimes by email over holiday dates on occasion and even then it was a long rant and derogating me.
Not sure if it would work in your case. Although it can take a court to say it should be done.
To stop it being about hostility between parents. But she is clearly angry and threatened at your family life situation- assume she is still single. Could be worth trying to send her a conciliatory email but I guess you may have tried thst (but it can also be useful evidence for court and you need evidence to show you’ve tried and been reasonable - just shows up how unreasonable she is being).
When you applied to court, as well as claiming pa, what order did you ask for? Was it a specific schedule or just general time?
. It is very common for this to happen when you have a new partner. And all this controlling behaviour is probably because she doesn’t want your partner involved and fears the kids leaving her or something. Although no amount of reassurance makes a difference I found - so there’s jealousy and rage as well.Sounds familiar as I didn’t see my son during the first lockdown but my ex also tried to prevent phone calls as well. She got to like having him there all the time and it was a massive struggle to get to see him again and see him regularly. And infuriated her that he wanted to come (horrible of her not thinking about him missing me). The only reason I managed the leverage was because I already had a good court order. However she is still messing about with holiday dates a lot even now. She really really enjoyed having carte Blanche and a “normal family life” for a while. But no excuse to try and amputate a parent!
Your ex is trying it on because she just doesn’t want it. And think the courts will help you.
Have you ever had staying over time since separation? It sounds like not. And from the start she shouldn’t have been making the time at your old home with her present. I think all along she has been controlling who was with you when you saw the kids.
Having said that, while I understand your partner not liking the regular contact between you and the ex, that is expected for co parenting about the children - but nothing more. So although some regular communication might be needed it’s ok as long as it’s about the kids. My partner also found it a bit much at first and it caused arguments until I shared the communications with her and we both decided of I should reply at various times and what to say and keep it brief and child focused. But at one point my ex was texting constantly and at antisocial hours and clearly trying to cause issues.
It settled down when she met her H but then later there were different problems (wanting to cut me out once she had a family life).
Do you have much communication with your ex now? Just wondering if there’s any chance of talking to her and trying to sort things out. Assume you’ve tried mediation.
Kind of calm her down a bit? Say you want to work together for the kids sake bit just have visits with them. Make the odd suggestion about their future schooling or something.
One thing a Judge suggested at my final hearing was that both parents send a positive email about the child once a week saying something good the child had done or enjoyed. To get communication child focused. Which in my case was a bit of a joke as my ex was incapable of anything like that and refused to communicate with me at all. It was necessary sometimes by email over holiday dates on occasion and even then it was a long rant and derogating me.
Not sure if it would work in your case. Although it can take a court to say it should be done.
To stop it being about hostility between parents. But she is clearly angry and threatened at your family life situation- assume she is still single. Could be worth trying to send her a conciliatory email but I guess you may have tried thst (but it can also be useful evidence for court and you need evidence to show you’ve tried and been reasonable - just shows up how unreasonable she is being).
When you applied to court, as well as claiming pa, what order did you ask for? Was it a specific schedule or just general time?
Posted at the same time. At least it seems Cafcass ignored her rubbish. If emailing the court it needs to be brief and specific and quite businesslike as it’s only to ask for something due to something happening since Cafcass call. Something along the lines of my suggested one above but you know the situation better than me. Maybe PM me with it before you send it - anything in writing can help or work against you so you need to be careful what you put.
Forgot to add ... On that first return visit I expected to have all of my children but as I said only my youngest agreed to come with me. I was allowed to have her overnight. Soon after that visit, the ex emailed to say she was "misguided" to allow it and refused any further overnight contact until she decides. She told Cafcass that one stay with me resulted in 6 weeks of bedtime problems for my daughter. I had no problems with getting her to sleep for me and she woke up happy and rested. (Bedtime problems have gone on with youngest since she was 18months old and ex admits this in a recent email. Only ever a problem when the ex is involved in bedtime, never a problem for me - I don't plan to say this though as that's negative about the ex
Also, in relation to the telephone contact, she has stated to Cafcass that my calls cause her anxiety and cause the children to become angry and frustrated.
She has also stated my messages to the kids are not "child-focused" and vaguely accused me of harassing the kids - she told Cafcass I messaged my son 20 times in one day grilling him as to why he wouldn't speak to me. I can prove this is a lie. My messages are always "have a great day, how was school, love you and miss you", or sharing things with them I've seen, photos etc... always age appropriate. The messages she refers to were a rare exchange of about 20 messages when I managed to get him to engage with me, it was lighthearted and I ended it reminding him that I'm always there for him and he can talk to me if he wants to about how he feels but there's no pressure. I don't feel this was inappropriate. At that she warned me that if I continued to send messages she felt were "overwhelming" for the children she would put a stop to it.
I'm emailing the court today to ask for my hearing date to be listed as soon as possible and I need interim contact. Is it worth adding something about these phone calls because with the ex's constant supervision and insistence I go through her phone and not the kids phones (they wouldn't answer anyway anymore), the contact is non-existent and causes them so much distress and me so much anxiety.
I don't want to stop the calls, as you've all said, don't refuse any offer of contact, but she's using them as an opportunity for further abuse of me and the kids and further ammunition to justify limiting, or I fear, stopping my contact altogether...
Any further advice on this?
your case is so similar to mine
You know- if there was one piece of advice that I'd say is more important than anything, its DO NOT DELAY. I was the same, I thought that rocking the boat would cause more stress as she was so angry & the kids were hearing & seeing all of it, so I just kept talking to the kids to and just tried to calm things down. Which failed. It was never going to work and I was an idiot for thinking it might. And eventually my lack of 'courteous firmness' was seen as weakness, so I got utterly trampled underfoot in the hope that I'd either top myself or disappear forever. I had 39 visits in 30 days after the split, and like you I could 'sense' something, but I had no idea how sudden the 'off switch' gets pushed, it took 48 hours for mine to go from asking me to take them out to saying they never wanted to see me again.
Anyway onto you, sorry for waffling about me! As you no doubt know, your only option is court now. Unfortunately its almost certain that the situation will never let up, there will never be any end to the rage, so you need someone to intervene.
Couple of things- never get emotional or personal with ex if you mail her- its likely that the days where some kind of sensible reconciliation are well & truly over. All communication should be formal & child-focussed, discussing them & plans around them. I also wouldn't be averse to also giving mum a polite but firm reminder that she needs to act in the kids' best interests, her issues with you must to be put to one side. That will probably generate a load more hostility but at least you then have your stance in writing- and its the right stance & will be seen as such in court. Any nasty responses to something like that would not be seen in a good light.
Ash makes a great point and its something the Woodalls etc highly recommend. You don't have to just use the phonecalls. What you're looking for here is a 'holding pattern' until you get your order. That could be a letter or a card once a week (not too much), with nothing heavy apart from "I love you, I'm proud of you and I'll always be here for you" etc, or a very brief lighthearted story- thats all it needs. That reassures the kids that you are thinking of them & would help. It could be an email for Mum for her to show them praising them (and if that never gets shown to the kids you have that on record, handy for court).
The phonecalls are likely now a major cause of stress, they've been built up into a huge event in the kids' mind, as they know that mum will go mad in the runup & during them, and they're now being hardwired that "phonecall with dad= massive stress and I have to act a certain way"- you could be well advised to take the heat off by using other means to tell them what they need & want to hear from their dad.
On the practical side- cafcass etc, you actually seem to be in a good position to get a decent order. I'd say.. Don't stop the calls but there are other ways to stay in contact while getting your court date through.
1. Maintain the calls but be sensitive to the kids. And be strong yourself- I know how horrendous these things are but its hopefully temporary.
2. Organise your application & email the court, exactly as Ash said- there is a knack to that.
3. Use other ways to show the kids you're there & will always be there, reducing the turmoil that the phonecalls bring at the moment.
4. Keep your nose clean with mum- formal, courteous & only about the kids. Your new life is none of her concern aside from how it relates to the kids. And vice versa.
5. If you're not already- document everything. Every mail, every text- maintain it daily because as I know to my cost trying to pull all that together in one sitting is quite the ordeal... and if you're using texts/ photos then make sure they show the date & time, otherwise a court can reject them. AT some stage this is going to be discussed in a courtroom, and you'll need all of this stuff to support your case.
Oh and once you get your order, prepare for a further increase in hostility, because her control over the situation will have been removed. But get there first! One thing I learned is don't look too far ahead, one step at a time.
"She's threatened many times that I would lose my kids if I remained with my partner.".... has she said that via email or text? I think it would be hard for a judge to look beyond that as the root cause of all the problems.
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My partner is really supportive about co-parenting, at the time I refer to it was soon after separation from the ex, and the contact with ex wasn't appropriate. She was leaning on me for emotional support that wasn't giving her closure and also refusing to let the kids know we had split and were divorcing. Phone calls were lengthy and frequent and very personal, often leading to arguments. Ex also triangulated with my partner and caused lots of issues trying to split us. It wasn't healthy for any of us. Typical narc behaviour manipulating and no boundaries. Ex was calling my partner at all hours of the day and night (often drunk) telling lies and pretending to be her friend to come between us.
As soon as I backed off from my ex and kept contact purely civil and child-focused that's when the first issues with contact arose, only she cited covid as the reason. Without a court order I couldn't see the kids anymore even though I was coming back to the UK every weekend for a few months and staying with my partner until full lockdown, (partner and stepkids now emigrated to live with me). I naively didn't see this was the start of the PA, but it's now escalated to like you say, me being amputated.
Since separation I've had my youngest a couple of times overnight for one night each time, that's it. Ex absolutely was controlling my time with the kids, and always has done, only now that I'm out of it I can see just what a control freak she is. I've always been excluded from being involved with their education, but now we are divorced I am in regular contact with the school. Ex hasn't kept me updated on much at all. Only occasionally when she felt like it. Then she's twisted that and said I'm not interested.
Communication-wise, after the incident when she rang me verbally abusing me and telling me my kids hated me etc I had to insist that all Comms were in writing, email only. Emails were civil, although she constantly tried to engage with me until becoming hostile in December 2021. Now emails from her fluctuate between very formal and curt (solicitor speak) or nonsensical and denigrating. They often come late at night after Dutch courage I suspect. Ex has also made accusations against my partner, suggesting reasons my kids can't meet her, so we sent a cease and desist letter from a solicitor this week to stop those. I was worried she would try to use false accusations against my partner to try to get a prohibited steps order to stop me introducing the kids, just another delay tactic. There are no safeguarding issues with my partner so we can defend any allegations. Ex told me in writing they can only meet when she allows it and I'm not to even talk about my partner or my stepkids to the kids (we get married in a few weeks though ex and kids don't know this!) The kids have known about my partner for over 2 years and my youngest two have told me they are fine to meet her on several occasions though this has never happened. My youngest has had phone and video call contact with my partner without any issues and has even bought my partner presents.
My ex isn't single, she's had 2 boyfriends she's introduced to the kids (only told me AFTER the event, I didn't react). She recently moved her boyfriend and his child into her home with my kids without telling me at all. My youngest informed me last month. I've made no complaint to her about this. She's accused me of only showing interest in the kids since she had a new partner, I didn't even know about him when I was able to start travelling to see the kids and nothing could be further from the truth. She clearly expects me to react, or is disappointed that I haven't, and that I'm genuinely happy that she's now moved on, or so she says.
As for appealing to her better nature to sort things out, been there, tried that. Have asked to resolve things, invited to mediation (that's a whole other story and currently have a complaint in about mediator who made things a thousand times worse), that broke down at the beginning.
Things got really bad communication-wise at Christmas and I had to take a step back for mine and the kids sake, I was at breaking point. For 4 weeks I didn't call the kids but I still messaged - I explained to her why, I don't know what she told the kids - but this has been used against me also.
I've asked to use co-parenting app, have asked to work together with her to help the kids, she has refused. She's told me there is no issue, there is no conflict and the kids don't need anything other than what she provides them and they certainly don't need an extended family - all in writing. She constantly refers to herself in emails as the "sole, primary carer".
With mediation she has refused to do face-to-face and the same with court but has no problems trying to engage with me at the door on picking up and dropping off my youngest. I politely pointed this out to her as I genuinely don't understand her unwillingness to do face-to-face? Then when I last went to the house she hid behind the front door and didn't speak to me at all. Not sure what message this sends to the kids??????
Ex also told me in email that my contact with her isn't child-focused and is excessive (projection), and instructed me only to contact her with my travel arrangements from now on. It's safe to say, communication has completely broken down and I'm in danger of accusations of harassment if I contact her.
I've checked back on all my emails to her and I'm confident from my side they were all entirely child-focused apart from the odd reply to her about solictors and money - (another long story; I've also accused her of financial abuse in the c100 and that hasn't been mentioned by Cafcass to me at all).
As soon as I backed off from my ex and kept contact purely civil and child-focused that's when the first issues with contact arose, only she cited covid as the reason. Without a court order I couldn't see the kids anymore even though I was coming back to the UK every weekend for a few months and staying with my partner until full lockdown, (partner and stepkids now emigrated to live with me). I naively didn't see this was the start of the PA, but it's now escalated to like you say, me being amputated.
Since separation I've had my youngest a couple of times overnight for one night each time, that's it. Ex absolutely was controlling my time with the kids, and always has done, only now that I'm out of it I can see just what a control freak she is. I've always been excluded from being involved with their education, but now we are divorced I am in regular contact with the school. Ex hasn't kept me updated on much at all. Only occasionally when she felt like it. Then she's twisted that and said I'm not interested.
Communication-wise, after the incident when she rang me verbally abusing me and telling me my kids hated me etc I had to insist that all Comms were in writing, email only. Emails were civil, although she constantly tried to engage with me until becoming hostile in December 2021. Now emails from her fluctuate between very formal and curt (solicitor speak) or nonsensical and denigrating. They often come late at night after Dutch courage I suspect. Ex has also made accusations against my partner, suggesting reasons my kids can't meet her, so we sent a cease and desist letter from a solicitor this week to stop those. I was worried she would try to use false accusations against my partner to try to get a prohibited steps order to stop me introducing the kids, just another delay tactic. There are no safeguarding issues with my partner so we can defend any allegations. Ex told me in writing they can only meet when she allows it and I'm not to even talk about my partner or my stepkids to the kids (we get married in a few weeks though ex and kids don't know this!) The kids have known about my partner for over 2 years and my youngest two have told me they are fine to meet her on several occasions though this has never happened. My youngest has had phone and video call contact with my partner without any issues and has even bought my partner presents.
My ex isn't single, she's had 2 boyfriends she's introduced to the kids (only told me AFTER the event, I didn't react). She recently moved her boyfriend and his child into her home with my kids without telling me at all. My youngest informed me last month. I've made no complaint to her about this. She's accused me of only showing interest in the kids since she had a new partner
, I didn't even know about him when I was able to start travelling to see the kids and nothing could be further from the truth. She clearly expects me to react, or is disappointed that I haven't, and that I'm genuinely happy that she's now moved on, or so she says.As for appealing to her better nature to sort things out, been there, tried that. Have asked to resolve things, invited to mediation (that's a whole other story and currently have a complaint in about mediator who made things a thousand times worse), that broke down at the beginning.
Things got really bad communication-wise at Christmas and I had to take a step back for mine and the kids sake, I was at breaking point. For 4 weeks I didn't call the kids but I still messaged - I explained to her why, I don't know what she told the kids - but this has been used against me also.
I've asked to use co-parenting app, have asked to work together with her to help the kids, she has refused. She's told me there is no issue, there is no conflict and the kids don't need anything other than what she provides them and they certainly don't need an extended family - all in writing. She constantly refers to herself in emails as the "sole, primary carer".
With mediation she has refused to do face-to-face and the same with court but has no problems trying to engage with me at the door on picking up and dropping off my youngest. I politely pointed this out to her as I genuinely don't understand her unwillingness to do face-to-face? Then when I last went to the house she hid behind the front door and didn't speak to me at all
. Not sure what message this sends to the kids??????Ex also told me in email that my contact with her isn't child-focused and is excessive (projection), and instructed me only to contact her with my travel arrangements from now on. It's safe to say, communication has completely broken down and I'm in danger of accusations of harassment if I contact her.
I've checked back on all my emails to her and I'm confident from my side they were all entirely child-focused apart from the odd reply to her about solictors and money - (another long story; I've also accused her of financial abuse in the c100 and that hasn't been mentioned by Cafcass to me at all).
Couldn't fit my whole reply in lol....
I didn't say what I wanted in the c100 but I did send a framework of contact to Cafcass which with hindsight I didn't ask for enough contact so I want to revise this. Another hangover of being scared of asking and getting told no. Foolishly thought I'll ask for less and ex will see I'm not asking for much and will agree.
I originally suggested a very slow increase in contact with coming to the UK to see them one weekend a month building up to having them for holidays. This isn't enough.
Ultimately what I want is daily messaging and calls a few times a week to their own phones without her supervision on calls, overnight stays with me in the UK at least one weekend a month, but I'm trying to see if once every 3 weeks is doable financially, half of the school holidays in blocks (not a day here and a day there, she split the days I was due to see them after xmas), alternative special occasions, ie Xmas and birthdays and I want to be able to take them overseas for stays with me where I live in the holidays.
Ex is adamantly opposed to this, stating it's proposturous to think her kids could go to a foreign country where they don't speak English
Just to point out, the kids have been many times abroad for holidays and I live in a country not far from the UK with predominantly English spoken, not that that's relevant anyway, I don't live in a third world country! I want it written into the CAO that ex brings the kids to the airport for me to collect them and I also want some flexibility written into it if I have to change dates due to circumstances outside of my control. Ex used covid against me when travel was banned and said I chopped and changed on a whim and waltzed in an out of the kids lives, accusing me of abandonment when I couldn't travel and implied I'm unreliable. I've done my absolute best to maintain contact with them, I'm confident I can prove this to be the case. Since I've been able to return to see the kids I've only cancelled once due to Omicron, restrictions came back in and flights were cancelled! She wouldn't allow me to explain this to the kids myself and told them I didn't come because I live too far away then accused me of having a tendancy to please myself basically. I was absolutely gutted I couldn't go and see them at xmas
Anyway, hope that gives a bit more of a picture to where I'm at. I think I've tried most of the things you've suggested to reason with her and have realised there is no reasoning or the ability to co-parent! I will be absolutely stressing to the court my willingness to co-parent and the suggestions I've made to do so.
Thanks for the offer to check what I intend to send to court Ash, I'll take you up on that. If you have anymore pointers now I've given a bit more detail I'm all ears...
I didn't say what I wanted in the c100 but I did send a framework of contact to Cafcass which with hindsight I didn't ask for enough contact so I want to revise this. Another hangover of being scared of asking and getting told no. Foolishly thought I'll ask for less and ex will see I'm not asking for much and will agree.
I originally suggested a very slow increase in contact with coming to the UK to see them one weekend a month building up to having them for holidays. This isn't enough.
Ultimately what I want is daily messaging and calls a few times a week to their own phones without her supervision on calls, overnight stays with me in the UK at least one weekend a month, but I'm trying to see if once every 3 weeks is doable financially, half of the school holidays in blocks (not a day here and a day there, she split the days I was due to see them after xmas), alternative special occasions, ie Xmas and birthdays and I want to be able to take them overseas for stays with me where I live in the holidays.
Ex is adamantly opposed to this, stating it's proposturous to think her kids could go to a foreign country where they don't speak English
Just to point out, the kids have been many times abroad for holidays and I live in a country not far from the UK with predominantly English spoken, not that that's relevant anyway, I don't live in a third world country! I want it written into the CAO that ex brings the kids to the airport for me to collect them and I also want some flexibility written into it if I have to change dates due to circumstances outside of my control. Ex used covid against me when travel was banned and said I chopped and changed on a whim and waltzed in an out of the kids lives, accusing me of abandonment when I couldn't travel and implied I'm unreliable. I've done my absolute best to maintain contact with them, I'm confident I can prove this to be the case. Since I've been able to return to see the kids I've only cancelled once due to Omicron, restrictions came back in and flights were cancelled! She wouldn't allow me to explain this to the kids myself and told them I didn't come because I live too far away then accused me of having a tendancy to please myself basically. I was absolutely gutted I couldn't go and see them at xmas
Anyway, hope that gives a bit more of a picture to where I'm at. I think I've tried most of the things you've suggested to reason with her and have realised there is no reasoning or the ability to co-parent! I will be absolutely stressing to the court my willingness to co-parent and the suggestions I've made to do so.
Thanks for the offer to check what I intend to send to court Ash, I'll take you up on that. If you have anymore pointers now I've given a bit more detail I'm all ears...
Unfortunately those threats were verbal. We did have a screenshot of this threat in a text to my partner but have lost the phoneyour case is so similar to mine
You know- if there was one piece of advice that I'd say is more important than anything, its DO NOT DELAY. I was the same, I thought that rocking the boat would cause more stress as she was so angry & the kids were hearing & seeing all of it, so I just kept talking to the kids to and just tried to calm things down. Which failed. It was never going to work and I was an idiot for thinking it might. And eventually my lack of 'courteous firmness' was seen as weakness, so I got utterly trampled underfoot in the hope that I'd either top myself or disappear forever. I had 39 visits in 30 days after the split, and like you I could 'sense' something, but I had no idea how sudden the 'off switch' gets pushed, it took 48 hours for mine to go from asking me to take them out to saying they never wanted to see me again.
Anyway onto you, sorry for waffling about me! As you no doubt know, your only option is court now. Unfortunately its almost certain that the situation will never let up, there will never be any end to the rage, so you need someone to intervene.
Couple of things- never get emotional or personal with ex if you mail her- its likely that the days where some kind of sensible reconciliation are well & truly over. All communication should be formal & child-focussed, discussing them & plans around them. I also wouldn't be averse to also giving mum a polite but firm reminder that she needs to act in the kids' best interests, her issues with you must to be put to one side. That will probably generate a load more hostility but at least you then have your stance in writing- and its the right stance & will be seen as such in court. Any nasty responses to something like that would not be seen in a good light.
Ash makes a great point and its something the Woodalls etc highly recommend. You don't have to just use the phonecalls. What you're looking for here is a 'holding pattern' until you get your order. That could be a letter or a card once a week (not too much), with nothing heavy apart from "I love you, I'm proud of you and I'll always be here for you" etc, or a very brief lighthearted story- thats all it needs. That reassures the kids that you are thinking of them & would help. It could be an email for Mum for her to show them praising them (and if that never gets shown to the kids you have that on record, handy for court).
The phonecalls are likely now a major cause of stress, they've been built up into a huge event in the kids' mind, as they know that mum will go mad in the runup & during them, and they're now being hardwired that "phonecall with dad= massive stress and I have to act a certain way"- you could be well advised to take the heat off by using other means to tell them what they need & want to hear from their dad.
On the practical side- cafcass etc, you actually seem to be in a good position to get a decent order. I'd say.. Don't stop the calls but there are other ways to stay in contact while getting your court date through.
1. Maintain the calls but be sensitive to the kids. And be strong yourself- I know how horrendous these things are but its hopefully temporary.
2. Organise your application & email the court, exactly as Ash said- there is a knack to that.
3. Use other ways to show the kids you're there & will always be there, reducing the turmoil that the phonecalls bring at the moment.
4. Keep your nose clean with mum- formal, courteous & only about the kids. Your new life is none of her concern aside from how it relates to the kids. And vice versa.
5. If you're not already- document everything. Every mail, every text- maintain it daily because as I know to my cost trying to pull all that together in one sitting is quite the ordeal... and if you're using texts/ photos then make sure they show the date & time, otherwise a court can reject them. AT some stage this is going to be discussed in a courtroom, and you'll need all of this stuff to support your case.
Oh and once you get your order, prepare for a further increase in hostility, because her control over the situation will have been removed. But get there first! One thing I learned is don't look too far ahead, one step at a time.
"She's threatened many times that I would lose my kids if I remained with my partner.".... has she said that via email or text? I think it would be hard for a judge to look beyond that as the root cause of all the problems.
We never thought at the time she meant it. We both thought it's just the aftermath of split and things will calm. How wrong we were...Thanks so much for the reply, it's good to know I'm not alone and I really appreciate the helpful pointers. Self-rep as all my funds are needed for visiting the kids so the more advice I can get the better my case will be.
If I send cards and letters how can I prove/disprove the kids were given them? Other than sending signed for, they still need to be passed to the kids from mum. Things I've given to the kids have mysteriously ended up at the "bottom of the drawer" or down the "back of the radiator" ...
Unfortunately those threats were verbal. We did have a screenshot of this threat in a text to my partner but have lost the phone
Thanks so much for the reply, it's good to know I'm not alone and I really appreciate the helpful pointers. Self-rep as all my funds are needed for visiting the kids so the more advice I can get the better my case will be.
If I send cards and letters how can I prove/disprove the kids were given them? Other than sending signed for, they still need to be passed to the kids from mum. Things I've given to the kids have mysteriously ended up at the "bottom of the drawer" or down the "back of the radiator" ...
You can't really prove it, but you can clearly show that you sent them. At some stage it will come out (probably in court) that she never showed the cards to the kids, which wouldn't look particularly good.
My honest assessment here is that your main problem is what looks like 'alienation' (I know thats a dangerous word but I'm using it to summarise the things you're seeing)- at some stage mum is going to be pulled up for all this if you handle the case right, it doesn't sound like she has serious grounds for concern around you being safe to see & speak to the kids. With that in mind remember the most important, critical thing- your kids need you most. Your ex has her own issues, yes, but she's a grownup. Do not be sucked into that world of aggression and hostility, or you will lose focus on the important things. Do not let it divert your attention from securing good access.
My take on it is that mum has never gotten over the split, and she can't come to terms with it, which is resulting in these wild behaviours. And thats fine, she is entitled to feel that way, its understandable and I am not for one minute looking down on her for that. But what she is not entitled to do is suck the children into her pain and end up harming them emotionally and psychologically. Its a tough thing to distance yourself emotionally from mum, but I think you must.
I agree she hasn't gotten over it and seems she never will. I believe she sees me and my partner as a threat and there's definitely jealousy going on. A solicitor told me she could see so much anger and hostility in ex's email to me, I hope the judge will see that too and realise what's happening. Distancing myself suits me fine, I only want to have contact with the ex to sort out arrangements and to co-parent where necessary. I will show to the court my willingness to communicate amicably about the children. I have to limit my contact for now due to the ex relentlessly trying to push my buttons and her threats that my contact with her is harassing.
My children and I don't deserve this, it's so frustrating that no one has heard my side or seems interested. Cafcass didn't even mention the parental alienation accusation to me in my safegaurding interview and wrote that I said ex is a brilliant mum. I never said this. I said mum provides routine and stability.
I don't plan to slate her in court as I know that will do me no favours, but I've already stated alienation in my c100 so it undermines my allegation to say I've praised her so highly. I have to stick by that now and somehow get support for ex and the kids to make it stop. Otherwise a court order won't be worth the paper it's written on. In the meantime I have serious concerns about my kid's mental health and the lomg-term damage she is doing to them. I'm not sleeping and the stress is killing me.
I'll do the timeline Ash suggests and the before, since, and now examples of what's happened with contact to the court at the appropriate times. I have mountains of emails I need to prepare for evidence.
It's a mammoth undertaking...
My children and I don't deserve this, it's so frustrating that no one has heard my side or seems interested. Cafcass didn't even mention the parental alienation accusation to me in my safegaurding interview and wrote that I said ex is a brilliant mum. I never said this. I said mum provides routine and stability.
I don't plan to slate her in court as I know that will do me no favours, but I've already stated alienation in my c100 so it undermines my allegation to say I've praised her so highly. I have to stick by that now and somehow get support for ex and the kids to make it stop. Otherwise a court order won't be worth the paper it's written on. In the meantime I have serious concerns about my kid's mental health and the lomg-term damage she is doing to them. I'm not sleeping and the stress is killing me.
I'll do the timeline Ash suggests and the before, since, and now examples of what's happened with contact to the court at the appropriate times. I have mountains of emails I need to prepare for evidence.
It's a mammoth undertaking...
It sounds so much like my ex (and my circumstances were different - we only dated for a few weeks and she dumped me for someone else!). But as the baby's Dad she seemed to think I should behave like a surrogate husband and run around after her (and I think was keeping me in reserve in case her new relationship didn't work out lol!). That was many years ago but I have had just the same stuff you've had. The anger in my case was what she perceived as "not putting her first" by daring to have a partner. Plus probably fear that my child might "prefer" my partner. Which is irrational. Children love people differently. I think it's called "golden uterus syndrome". But along with the anger at you is also this other thing where I think they truly believe they are the only "proper" parent and have little respect for a Dad as a parent after separation. This attitude is not helped by a large chunk of society who assume children live with "single Mums" and Dads who "leave" are all deadbeat.
And the law does nothing to change those attitudes - there is no legal precedent that both parents share the care of kids at time of separation. There was a half hearted thing to say both parents have equal parental responsibility but that doesn't include schedules - which have to either be agreed or attained via the court process if not agreed.
That phrase her being the "sole parent with care" I had many many times and she even stated it in documents! Including one where she wanted to change my son's surname (which is double barrelled as we weren't married, so part mine, part hers). Hers was on the end and when her name changed she wanted to change the end bit. I just agreed to that. But she knew full well she wasn't the "sole parent with care" because she couldn't get the deed poll without my consent and signature! It's kind of playing it both ways. Her motivation there was to hope I believed it and was deterred into believing I had no rights.
So as well as the anger, she now has a new partner herself (and as you say, one rule for her, one for you) so will now be wanting to have this uninterrupted family life and do the "replace and erase" thing (that's mentioned in Amy J Baker's PA book which helped me a lot - have a look at it - it's really good for helping with "on the ground" behaviour by the kids - helping them through it and avoiding things worsening).
Her view being - I have a new man now, the kids have a home here and a family life - I'm angry with him, I don;'t like him having a partner - it's not what I want so I will do what I can to get away with it.
They also delude themselves a bit I think (and I know C&A Dad thinks that too). Believe their own propaganda - so they can feel perfect and a good Mum!
Anyway - you are not alone. It's about control and wanting her own way. Doesn't really matter what it's about actually, it's the fact she's doing it and not encouraging healthy happy relationships with both parents. I also had allegations made against my partner (very serious ones - affected her choice of career ongoing). Which were also dealt with robustly - so after that she just made them about me. But not as serious as some on here have had (and this was years after I'd been having a regular schedule so they didn't stand up).
It can help to have exactly what you want ordered in the initial application, but don't worry you can put it in a position statement for the hearing. One reason I think it helps to have it in the initial application is to also sound confident about how important it is and that sets a tone with Cafcass as they read the application at the start and already form a view.
But I was the same at first application - lacked confidence and was kind of asking for not enough thinking I wouldn't get anything much. It's sad isn't it, how we feel we have to grovel for crumbs as so marginalised.
Since then I learned - best to go in for 50/50 and have a confident argument about why it's best for the kids. Very unlikely you'd get that in your situation but it's a point to negotiate down from. (Rather than trying to negotiate up). They do make 50/50 orders for people living in different countries - not that common - but a lot of that depends on history. Ie if you'd had a really good staying over schedule originally and then it was stopped.
So in a position statement you could say, on reflection and in view of the children being under so much pressure and having no say, you feel it would help their situation enormously if they were to spend more time with you, to help ameliorate the negativity your ex so clearly impresses upon them. And ask for the court to make an order as follows: And then set it out. It can include increasing time, leading to a scheudle of say one week-end a month but additional time in school holidays, on a 70/30 shared care basis.
And the law does nothing to change those attitudes - there is no legal precedent that both parents share the care of kids at time of separation. There was a half hearted thing to say both parents have equal parental responsibility but that doesn't include schedules - which have to either be agreed or attained via the court process if not agreed.
That phrase her being the "sole parent with care" I had many many times and she even stated it in documents! Including one where she wanted to change my son's surname (which is double barrelled as we weren't married, so part mine, part hers). Hers was on the end and when her name changed she wanted to change the end bit. I just agreed to that. But she knew full well she wasn't the "sole parent with care" because she couldn't get the deed poll without my consent and signature! It's kind of playing it both ways. Her motivation there was to hope I believed it and was deterred into believing I had no rights.
So as well as the anger, she now has a new partner herself (and as you say, one rule for her, one for you) so will now be wanting to have this uninterrupted family life and do the "replace and erase" thing (that's mentioned in Amy J Baker's PA book which helped me a lot - have a look at it - it's really good for helping with "on the ground" behaviour by the kids - helping them through it and avoiding things worsening).
Her view being - I have a new man now, the kids have a home here and a family life - I'm angry with him, I don;'t like him having a partner - it's not what I want so I will do what I can to get away with it.
They also delude themselves a bit I think (and I know C&A Dad thinks that too). Believe their own propaganda - so they can feel perfect and a good Mum!
Anyway - you are not alone. It's about control and wanting her own way. Doesn't really matter what it's about actually, it's the fact she's doing it and not encouraging healthy happy relationships with both parents. I also had allegations made against my partner (very serious ones - affected her choice of career ongoing). Which were also dealt with robustly - so after that she just made them about me
. But not as serious as some on here have had (and this was years after I'd been having a regular schedule so they didn't stand up).It can help to have exactly what you want ordered in the initial application, but don't worry you can put it in a position statement for the hearing. One reason I think it helps to have it in the initial application is to also sound confident about how important it is and that sets a tone with Cafcass as they read the application at the start and already form a view.
But I was the same at first application - lacked confidence and was kind of asking for not enough thinking I wouldn't get anything much. It's sad isn't it, how we feel we have to grovel for crumbs as so marginalised.
Since then I learned - best to go in for 50/50 and have a confident argument about why it's best for the kids. Very unlikely you'd get that in your situation but it's a point to negotiate down from. (Rather than trying to negotiate up). They do make 50/50 orders for people living in different countries - not that common - but a lot of that depends on history. Ie if you'd had a really good staying over schedule originally and then it was stopped.
So in a position statement you could say, on reflection and in view of the children being under so much pressure and having no say, you feel it would help their situation enormously if they were to spend more time with you, to help ameliorate the negativity your ex so clearly impresses upon them. And ask for the court to make an order as follows: And then set it out. It can include increasing time, leading to a scheudle of say one week-end a month but additional time in school holidays, on a 70/30 shared care basis.
It’s like having two full time jobs to be honest..
It is a mammoth undertaking, and it can help to start getting things organised into folders bit by bit so it's less of a scramble at a final hearing. Maybe set aside a week-end to go through all the emails and texts and print out anything remotely useful. Then sort them into groups - I had a section for emails about holidays, a section for emails with threats, a section that showed her attitude to not encouraging relationships with me - that kind of thing. It wasn't easy. Get a big lever arch file and some dividers. In thatr I had a section for Cafcass letters and reports, a section for court papers and orders, a section for any letters (eg from a GP or other professional), and umpteen sections re evidence re ex. I also highlighted sections on certain emails and texts and annotated them. To say something like "this is untrue (highlighted bit) - see email of x date attached which contradicts".
By the time of final hearing you select a few that support your case and work with your final statement (which is your evidence). But don't worry about that yet. Just start getting things organised. And think about any other evidence you can get. For example I got a letter from my son's GP which contradicted a fake claim my ex had made (accusing me of being unsafe by allowing an activity when he had a medical condition). GP letter confirmed he didn't have it! That was really strong evidence of fabrication.
From what you say of the Cafcass report, I suspect they are sweeping the PA claim under the carpet - picking up on the positives you said about the ex and highlighting those, and taking the lazy approach that this is "conflict between parents". Which it isn't - it's one sided conflict, and you have evidence to show that. However you will get brownie points for saying positive things about the ex so that should work in your favour and them see you as not hostile towards her. But it's hard to know, if they're having a gatekeeping hearing. Cafcass can slip into thinking children are just being loyal to Mum or believe things like children don't like Dad's partner - they really don't get the subtleties of alienation - but Judges do. Yes it's jumping through hoops until final hearing.
The Cafcass letter was positive so there is no reason for you not to have an order and see your kids. Maybe they are taking the PA seriously, I don't know, but my experience is they just see Mum as hostile and "anxious". The distress and anxiety argument gets used a lot.
So it's frustratign being in limbo right now but it's like that until the final hearing - when you can present your evidence. Showing her hostility in evidence is not the same as "dissing her". You keep the statement child focused but highlight the concerns for the children by showing your ex's emails and hostility towards you.
Completely agree. It’s a lot of work getting a ‘bundle’ ready for court, but if you maintain it regularly it takes a load of the work out.
One tip- take a break every now and again. Just from my own situation, when you go back & look at all the info with a fresh pair of eyes you invariably find something you hadn’t spotted before.
It really is a mental game at your stage- not getting sucked into aggression, child focussed & not going under when the calls go badly.
But you will get your day, that’s for sure.
Hi Ash,It sounds so much like my ex (and my circumstances were different - we only dated for a few weeks and she dumped me for someone else!). But as the baby's Dad she seemed to think I should behave like a surrogate husband and run around after her (and I think was keeping me in reserve in case her new relationship didn't work out lol!). That was many years ago but I have had just the same stuff you've had. The anger in my case was what she perceived as "not putting her first" by daring to have a partner. Plus probably fear that my child might "prefer" my partner. Which is irrational. Children love people differently. I think it's called "golden uterus syndrome". But along with the anger at you is also this other thing where I think they truly believe they are the only "proper" parent and have little respect for a Dad as a parent after separation. This attitude is not helped by a large chunk of society who assume children live with "single Mums" and Dads who "leave" are all deadbeat.
And the law does nothing to change those attitudes - there is no legal precedent that both parents share the care of kids at time of separation. There was a half hearted thing to say both parents have equal parental responsibility but that doesn't include schedules - which have to either be agreed or attained via the court process if not agreed.
That phrase her being the "sole parent with care" I had many many times and she even stated it in documents! Including one where she wanted to change my son's surname (which is double barrelled as we weren't married, so part mine, part hers). Hers was on the end and when her name changed she wanted to change the end bit. I just agreed to that. But she knew full well she wasn't the "sole parent with care" because she couldn't get the deed poll without my consent and signature! It's kind of playing it both ways. Her motivation there was to hope I believed it and was deterred into believing I had no rights.
So as well as the anger, she now has a new partner herself (and as you say, one rule for her, one for you) so will now be wanting to have this uninterrupted family life and do the "replace and erase" thing (that's mentioned in Amy J Baker's PA book which helped me a lot - have a look at it - it's really good for helping with "on the ground" behaviour by the kids - helping them through it and avoiding things worsening).
Her view being - I have a new man now, the kids have a home here and a family life - I'm angry with him, I don;'t like him having a partner - it's not what I want so I will do what I can to get away with it.
They also delude themselves a bit I think (and I know C&A Dad thinks that too). Believe their own propaganda - so they can feel perfect and a good Mum!
Anyway - you are not alone. It's about control and wanting her own way. Doesn't really matter what it's about actually, it's the fact she's doing it and not encouraging healthy happy relationships with both parents. I also had allegations made against my partner (very serious ones - affected her choice of career ongoing). Which were also dealt with robustly - so after that she just made them about me
It can help to have exactly what you want ordered in the initial application, but don't worry you can put it in a position statement for the hearing. One reason I think it helps to have it in the initial application is to also sound confident about how important it is and that sets a tone with Cafcass as they read the application at the start and already form a view.
But I was the same at first application - lacked confidence and was kind of asking for not enough thinking I wouldn't get anything much. It's sad isn't it, how we feel we have to grovel for crumbs as so marginalised.
Since then I learned - best to go in for 50/50 and have a confident argument about why it's best for the kids. Very unlikely you'd get that in your situation but it's a point to negotiate down from. (Rather than trying to negotiate up). They do make 50/50 orders for people living in different countries - not that common - but a lot of that depends on history. Ie if you'd had a really good staying over schedule originally and then it was stopped.
So in a position statement you could say, on reflection and in view of the children being under so much pressure and having no say, you feel it would help their situation enormously if they were to spend more time with you, to help ameliorate the negativity your ex so clearly impresses upon them. And ask for the court to make an order as follows: And then set it out. It can include increasing time, leading to a scheudle of say one week-end a month but additional time in school holidays, on a 70/30 shared care basis.
Thanks for the advice so far, it really is helping me.
I called the court today and still no outcome to give me on the gatekeeping hearing, they said it could be 1-2 weeks. Explained the increasing urgency of getting to a first hearing and that I'll be emailing today and they assured me it will go straight in front of the judge. I'll compose my email based on what you've advised and send to you to check if that's ok?
Before I do, I do have one more question relating to the framework of contact...
Is this something I can add in my email to the judge to say in view of the ongoing pressure on the children and their increasing suffering that on reflection I now want to go for a shared care order with 50/50?
As I'm in another country I can't realistically have my children either in the UK (I have to pay for accomodation, flights, car hire, and other expenses each time I have them) or in my country due to unfeasible travel time for the kids, their school, plus my work commitments (I'm self-employed contractor - no work, no pay) for 50% of the time. I pay a lot in child maintenance over £1k a month, and the costs of seeing my children too are really increasing the financial pressure on me. Obviously I'm committed and making sacrifices to prioritise seeing them as often as I possibly can...
So is it realistic to ask for 50/50? Would I be expect to show a plan of how I'd make that work?
A solicitor told me that a CAO has to be enforceable on both sides so you can't just ask for more than you want to keep time "in reserve" in case you can fulfil it - ex could take me back to court and argue to have time reduced?
Also, ex has repeatedly told me she will only do things "if the court order it", that includes even speaking to me
so... I already know there'll be no flexibility on her side, even before any breaches.If I have no work or have extra funds to see my kids, then with reasonable notice, I'd like to be able to do so, or is this just a pipe dream..?
Anyway, is there anything in relation to the framework of contact I should be putting in this email to the judge now to give me a better case when I go to first hearing?
Unfortunately, I also put in my first framework of contact with Cafcass that the children are to remain living with mother. Does this mean she automatically gets a "lives with" order and does it make it harder for me? She's already put on the c100 response that she intends to apply for this, but she hasn't yet done her own c100? Will that part of it be decided within my application?
How likely do you think the court is to grant me being able to have my children overseas with me during contact?
The court also told me I can ask the judge to keep the hearings remote where possible so I'm not having to travel to the UK unless it's a full day hearing. That gave me some hope that they don't see my application as being "proposturous" because I live in a different country!
Sorry I know that's more than one question, I just want to get this email to the judge absolutely right.
Sensible questions. You’re thinking the right way in my opinion. I’m gonna PM you with one thing I did that got a judge’s attention on the alienation side.Hi Ash,
Thanks for the advice so far, it really is helping me.
I called the court today and still no outcome to give me on the gatekeeping hearing, they said it could be 1-2 weeks. Explained the increasing urgency of getting to a first hearing and that I'll be emailing today and they assured me it will go straight in front of the judge. I'll compose my email based on what you've advised and send to you to check if that's ok?
Before I do, I do have one more question relating to the framework of contact...
Is this something I can add in my email to the judge to say in view of the ongoing pressure on the children and their increasing suffering that on reflection I now want to go for a shared care order with 50/50?
As I'm in another country I can't realistically have my children either in the UK (I have to pay for accomodation, flights, car hire, and other expenses each time I have them) or in my country due to unfeasible travel time for the kids, their school, plus my work commitments (I'm self-employed contractor - no work, no pay) for 50% of the time. I pay a lot in child maintenance over £1k a month, and the costs of seeing my children too are really increasing the financial pressure on me. Obviously I'm committed and making sacrifices to prioritise seeing them as often as I possibly can...
So is it realistic to ask for 50/50? Would I be expect to show a plan of how I'd make that work?
A solicitor told me that a CAO has to be enforceable on both sides so you can't just ask for more than you want to keep time "in reserve" in case you can fulfil it - ex could take me back to court and argue to have time reduced?
Also, ex has repeatedly told me she will only do things "if the court order it", that includes even speaking to me
If I have no work or have extra funds to see my kids, then with reasonable notice, I'd like to be able to do so, or is this just a pipe dream..?
Anyway, is there anything in relation to the framework of contact I should be putting in this email to the judge now to give me a better case when I go to first hearing?
Unfortunately, I also put in my first framework of contact with Cafcass that the children are to remain living with mother. Does this mean she automatically gets a "lives with" order and does it make it harder for me? She's already put on the c100 response that she intends to apply for this, but she hasn't yet done her own c100? Will that part of it be decided within my application?
How likely do you think the court is to grant me being able to have my children overseas with me during contact?
The court also told me I can ask the judge to keep the hearings remote where possible so I'm not having to travel to the UK unless it's a full day hearing. That gave me some hope that they don't see my application as being "proposturous" because I live in a different country!
Sorry I know that's more than one question, I just want to get this email to the judge absolutely right.