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The Final Hearing - Thoughts?

DadLad

Experienced member
Member
I have my final hearing coming up, the ex is trying to push for an extension and her reason is "a trial period then a review in 6 months" - I will dispute this.

Cafcass have recommended that proceedings need to conclude at the final hearing.

In her recent position statement the ex is still making accusations and refusing any direct communication despite Cafcass recommending it and basically telling her to grow up and draw a line behind.

I have remained child focused, this is supported by the glowing ICFA and Cafcass reports.

I am going for a shared care order which the ex is disputing. Cafcass have defaulted to lives with mother, spends time with father.

Ex is proposing weekly weekend stays and a midweek visit, then in September this switches to fortnightly because of school and she will have no quality time.

This doesn't make any sense our child lives with her and she will see our child every day. Everything has to be on her terms and not in the best interests of our child.

I also have a parental responsibilities application alongside this. Ex agrees to PR but I can guarantee on the day she will try to impose restrictions in the order which I will dispute with my own proposal.

What does a water tight PR order look like? What things should be covered?

My court order proposal has covered most things but if anyone can suggest anything I may not have covered it would be greatly appreciated.

DadLad
 
I have my final hearing coming up, the ex is trying to push for an extension and her reason is "a trial period then a review in 6 months" - I will dispute this.

Cafcass have recommended that proceedings need to conclude at the final hearing.

In her recent position statement the ex is still making accusations and refusing any direct communication despite Cafcass recommending it and basically telling her to grow up and draw a line behind.

I have remained child focused, this is supported by the glowing ICFA and Cafcass reports.

I am going for a shared care order which the ex is disputing. Cafcass have defaulted to lives with mother, spends time with father.

Ex is proposing weekly weekend stays and a midweek visit, then in September this switches to fortnightly because of school and she will have no quality time.

This doesn't make any sense our child lives with her and she will see our child every day. Everything has to be on her terms and not in the best interests of our child.

I also have a parental responsibilities application alongside this. Ex agrees to PR but I can guarantee on the day she will try to impose restrictions in the order which I will dispute with my own proposal.

What does a water tight PR order look like? What things should be covered?

My court order proposal has covered most things but if anyone can suggest anything I may not have covered it would be greatly appreciated.

DadLad
I'm following this id like to know how you get on I'm in a very similar situation regarding ex not wanting me to be involved and not wanting me to gain pr if you could keep me updated how you get on I would greatly appreciate it , wish you all the best in your upcoming hearing mined in roughly 5 months time
 
I'm following this id like to know how you get on I'm in a very similar situation regarding ex not wanting me to be involved and not wanting me to gain pr if you could keep me updated how you get on I would greatly appreciate it , wish you all the best in your upcoming hearing mined in roughly 5 months time

I think my proposal and the arguments I will put forward to dispute my ex's demands, along with Cafcass on my side will hopefully result in a favourable outcome.
 
Would greatly appreciate some some advice from experienced members or anyone who has knowledge on this 😃
 
sounds like you have the same ex as mine. A few things.

Your ex can't put restrictions on PR, it is either granted, or not granted and it is rare for it to be not granted. As you are agreeing with cafcass (and icfa report backs it), then the court CANNOT go against it, unless it can provide good reason and evidence in writing, and even then it would be grounds for appeal.

Your ex is playing the "superior parent" when in reality she will be seen as the captain going down in an empty ship.
The only thing you might want to fight over - try to get lives with order , not spend time with - and the court default is 50/50 shared care parenting and lives with order would be inline with that.

If you're ex's position is far away from the Cafcass recommendations, she won't have legal aid and will have to fund her own contested final hearing and provide the rationale and evidence as to why the court should depart from cafcass recommendations. Remember that cafcass is the organisation that the courts have entrusted this decision making to, so they are not in a position to depart from them unless it can be shown that the recommendations are legally faulty or have missed a safeguarding issue.

Make sure the court order includes provision for you to share the contents with social services, school, GP and anyone else who should know you have PR.
Also make sure that a communication process is in place, to ensure that communication occurs and promptly, this should be in the court order and explicit with it's instructions.
 
sounds like you have the same ex as mine. A few things.

Your ex can't put restrictions on PR, it is either granted, or not granted and it is rare for it to be not granted. As you are agreeing with cafcass (and icfa report backs it), then the court CANNOT go against it, unless it can provide good reason and evidence in writing, and even then it would be grounds for appeal.

Your ex is playing the "superior parent" when in reality she will be seen as the captain going down in an empty ship.
The only thing you might want to fight over - try to get lives with order , not spend time with - and the court default is 50/50 shared care parenting and lives with order would be inline with that.

If you're ex's position is far away from the Cafcass recommendations, she won't have legal aid and will have to fund her own contested final hearing and provide the rationale and evidence as to why the court should depart from cafcass recommendations. Remember that cafcass is the organisation that the courts have entrusted this decision making to, so they are not in a position to depart from them unless it can be shown that the recommendations are legally faulty or have missed a safeguarding issue.

Make sure the court order includes provision for you to share the contents with social services, school, GP and anyone else who should know you have PR.
Also make sure that a communication process is in place, to ensure that communication occurs and promptly, this should be in the court order and explicit with it's instructions.

She is refusing direct communication despite Cafcass recommending it. She is also refusing handovers despite Cafcass recommending this also.

She wants a 3rd party to be involved forever which is counterproductive and placing a personal preference over the childs actual needs.
 
As @NewcastleBrownAle says - "Also make sure that a communication process is in place, to ensure that communication occurs and promptly, this should be in the court order and explicit with it's instructions." Not sure if you do use a parenting app already @DadLad , such as our family wizard,
but my CAO states communication must only be through a parenting app, unless in genuine emergency, and only about child related issues. Make sure the CAO states who pays for the app too, should be 50/50 split cost, they're around £80 each year per parent. Best wishes with your final hearing.
 
**GOOD NEWS**

My proposal was accepted, I have full alternate weekends and a midweek.

PR granted with no disputes.

The only thing the judge objected was my shared care proposal. The judge went with the default Cafcass recommendation for a "Lives with mother/ spends time with Father" for now.

But the judge has granted me permission to apply for it to be varied in 12 months from now.

My proposal did the talking as I covered everything, the judge thanked me for it and due to pre-hearing discussions the actual hearing lasted no more than 15 minutes. The ex tried to pipe up but the judge put her in place.

Case closed. Now just waiting painfully for the court to issue to final orders.
 
@DadLad

Amazing news mate!

Can I ask how old your child/ren is/are? Did you get any holidays?

Also, a quick bit of advice for your finalising of the order - ALWAYS try and arrange your pick-up from school / nursery..

Because if it's from Ex's house, she will come to the door and say that child "doesn't want to come today" or whatever to kibosh the contact time, and unfortunately there's not much you can do about it - even with a court order, sadly.

But child will usually obey teachers.
 
**GOOD NEWS**

My proposal was accepted, I have full alternate weekends and a midweek.

PR granted with no disputes.

The only thing the judge objected was my shared care proposal. The judge went with the default Cafcass recommendation for a "Lives with mother/ spends time with Father" for now.

But the judge has granted me permission to apply for it to be varied in 12 months from now.

My proposal did the talking as I covered everything, the judge thanked me for it and due to pre-hearing discussions the actual hearing lasted no more than 15 minutes. The ex tried to pipe up but the judge put her in place.

Case closed. Now just waiting painfully for the court to issue to final orders.
That’s excellent news, I’m so glad you and your daughter have got the order you’ve worked so hard for. Enjoy and cherish bringing her up.
 
@DadLad

Amazing news mate!

Can I ask how old your child/ren is/are? Did you get any holidays?

Also, a quick bit of advice for your finalising of the order - ALWAYS try and arrange your pick-up from school / nursery..

Because if it's from Ex's house, she will come to the door and say that child "doesn't want to come today" or whatever to kibosh the contact time, and unfortunately there's not much you can do about it - even with a court order, sadly.

But child will usually obey teachers.

Child is 4
School pick ups
Holidays shared
Birthday shared
Christmas Day shared
Fathers day - mine
 
it is going to take me a while to adjust because for the best part of 2+ years I am expecting another hearing due to being conditioned that way. My life feels my own again now and she can't control me anymore.

My new life begins now.
 
Ex had her free barrister, I self represented again.

I felt liberated by doing it myself, but believe me it has taken its toll and it was not easy doing all the paperwork but I persevered and looked at the photos of my child to remind me why Im doing this.
 
Fantastic results @DadLad!

Any advice for those of us heading down the self rep route?

Could you confirm if the proposal was only for final hearing? And as your self repping, who does the wording of the final order lay with ?

Cheers
 
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