Parental alienation vs Emotional abuse

[Ash]

Counselling can help yes - in particular it's support and somewhere to get things off your chest - a regular appointment like that can help you deal with things week by week. The school are not the enemy It didn't help that you had a stroppy teacher phone you. It's usually best to only ever email or contact the Headteacher rather than a class teacher or individual teachers. But good they have the picture now and are being helpful.

I think your lawyer is right not to be keen on a psychologist being involved with your daughter. Ultimately it is the parenting that affects how the child behaves. If your ex was co parenting properly then your daughter wouldn't be having issues. Also it's just the way family courts work - they don't like either parent involving a psychologist or counsellor with the child, unless the court orders it (because it needs to be done carefully). It suggests you think your child has a problem and that can come across as blaming the child almost. I understand why you think that might help but not sure it's the right move.

So did you get the prohibited steps order? What was the outcome of that first hearing? Common advice has always been - patience, play the game, jump through the hoops to get to the end and get your court order. Not easy though. Especially if not seeing your child or worried about them.

 

[Jose]

The outcome is that the PSO is in place and ex cannot remove child. What I still don’t understand is first why this is allowed against fathers and why they think that forcing a pattern that follows their interest is going to work out in the moms favour in court

 

[Jose]

I have feeling that courts are already fed up with the abuse that’s going on by certain women

 

[Ash]

That sounds positive. So was the hearing for the prohibited steps also treated as the first hearing for Child Arrangements? Why is it allowed? Because there is no law protecting children after parents separate. The only legal status is equal parental responsibility - which doesn't specify how often, or how much time with each parent. Parents are supposed to agree it between them. In some cases people do put their kids first and agree reasonable arrangements. But society tends to see the Mother as the "main parent" and some Mothers see themselves as that too. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. So unless a Dad goes to court, no-one can make the Mother play ball. Some of these ex's hope that you won't have the energy or finances to take it to court, and will give up.

Assume the prohibited steps order is temporary until a further hearing? It's an adversarial system. Solicitors act in their clients best interests (not the child's best interests which is an issue). They want to get paid - they will probably say whatever the ex wants to hear and by delaying things and creating more adversarial situations, they get paid more and for a longer period.

 

[Jose]

That sounds positive. So was the hearing for the prohibited steps also treated as the first hearing for Child Arrangements? Why is it allowed? Because there is no law protecting children after parents separate. The only legal status is equal parental responsibility - which doesn't specify how often, or how much time with each parent. Parents are supposed to agree it between them. In some cases people do put their kids first and agree reasonable arrangements. But society tends to see the Mother as the "main parent" and some Mothers see themselves as that too. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. So unless a Dad goes to court, no-one can make the Mother play ball. Some of these ex's hope that you won't have the energy or finances to take it to court, and will give up.

Assume the prohibited steps order is temporary until a further hearing? It's an adversarial system. Solicitors act in their clients best interests (not the child's best interests which is an issue). They want to get paid - they will probably say whatever the ex wants to hear and by delaying things and creating more adversarial situations, they get paid more and for a longer period.

I think I needed to see first hand what this is about. I have always worried about my daughter and I didn’t understand why in her name there were all these strange things painted like it was helping when as you said it’s to serve an Exs interest solely. PSO is temporary as it should be

 

[Jose]

I think I needed to see first hand what this is about. I have always worried about my daughter and I didn’t understand why in her name there were all these strange things painted like it was helping when as you said it’s to serve an Exs interest solely. PSO is temporary as it should be

Next hearing is the first one. They made sure no arrangements were made before that.

 

[Jose]

Great so the first call with CAFCASS is done. They called me first then my ex. First positive result is that my daughter now says that her mom “allows her” to the swimming pool. My daughter is coming up with lots of weird things out of the blue that She said her mom said to her.
I am waiting for the safeguarding letter that will come next week. I explicitly asked them for help to regain access to my daughter. They don’t see any safeguarding issues. I am sure my ex would have explained in detail how bad I am
we are heading for the first hearing with a pso in place for not removing the child from the country. Do you guys have any experience on timings? Lawyer says it will take months before next hearing and there will be a section 7 report. Do you know what this consist of?

 

[blindex]

Great so the first call with CAFCASS is done. They called me first then my ex. First positive result is that my daughter now says that her mom “allows her” to the swimming pool. My daughter is coming up with lots of weird things out of the blue that She said her mom said to her.
I am waiting for the safeguarding letter that will come next week. I explicitly asked them for help to regain access to my daughter. They don’t see any safeguarding issues. I am sure my ex would have explained in detail how bad I am
we are heading for the first hearing with a pso in place for not removing the child from the country. Do you guys have any experience on timings? Lawyer says it will take months before next hearing and there will be a section 7 report. Do you know what this consist of?

Hi Jose,

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but your solicitor is right. There is a long way ahead. This so called 'Safeguarding Call' is almost a joke and in hindsight I should not have told anything to them. It was later used against me and I was labelled a 'high conflicting couple'. All I said was that I suspected the mother had mental health issues, that I was the parent doing all the cooking at home and was concerned how the children were being fed, and that I denied all allegations.

Be prepared because the family justice system will allow your ex to lash out at you with a vengeance without any penalties or consequences. You need to leave the wrong with the wrongdoer and just focus on the relationship with your children.

The problem is not so much about the ex lying to her teeth. If this whole court process lasted for 3 months that wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that it doesn't and hearing upon hearing the ex is allowed to double down on the lies with impunity. It is a really tiresome process.

Once a section 7 report order is made, it will take 4 months for it to be prepared at least.

 

[Jose]

Hi Jose,

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but your solicitor is right. There is a long way ahead. This so called 'Safeguarding Call' is almost a joke and in hindsight I should not have told anything to them. It was later used against me and I was labelled a 'high conflicting couple'. All I said was that I suspected the mother had mental health issues, that I was the parent doing all the cooking at home and was concerned how the children were being fed, and that I denied all allegations.

Be prepared because the family justice system will allow your ex to lash out at you with a vengeance without any penalties or consequences. You need to leave the wrong with the wrongdoer and just focus on the relationship with your children.

The problem is not so much about the ex lying to her teeth. If this whole court process lasted for 3 months that wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that it doesn't and hearing upon hearing the ex is allowed to double down on the lies with impunity. It is a really tiresome process.

Once a section 7 report order is made, it will take 4 months for it to be prepared at least.

It’s interesting that everything that happens you as a father have all to lose and nothing to gain. I am exhausted of having to deal with an ex who is vindictive and badmouthing our 4 year old daughter as a sport

 

[Jose]

It’s interesting that everything that happens you as a father have all to lose and nothing to gain. I am exhausted of having to deal with an ex who is vindictive and badmouthing our 4 year old daughter as a sport

What do you need to focus on then? How is the section 7 report made?

 

[blindex]

It’s interesting that everything that happens you as a father have all to lose and nothing to gain. I am exhausted of having to deal with an ex who is vindictive and badmouthing our 4 year old daughter as a sport

And that is the whole tragedy of the system. It is a Public Health crisis in IMO.

In order to understand the system you need to a apply a 'risk v reward' equation

If you are the resident parent the equation works like this. For the resident parent, there are no consequences for lying (zero risk), but the rewards are huge. The more you lie, the more the system slows downs and the more this drives the other party to utter despair, thus helping to cement the resident parent position even further.

Being a non-resident parent is more like being a prisoner of war.

 

[blindex]

What do you need to focus on then? How is the section 7 report made?

Court will order either the Local Authority or Cafcass to write it. They will speak with your ex, the children and yourself.

I assume that if a section 7 report has been recommended, it is because there are allegations of domestic abuse. So this will have to be dealt first before the section 7 report. Either the judge will agree to a Fact Finding Hearing or not. If not it can go straight to Section 7. Once you know the dates for your section 7 I recommend you come to this forum to get advice on how to deal with the officer leading the report

 

[Jose]

Clearly this is a legal abuse, what can be done to change this?

 

[Ash]

And that is the whole tragedy of the system. It is a Public Health crisis in IMO.

In order to understand the system you need to a apply a 'risk v reward' equation

If you are the resident parent the equation works like this. For the resident parent, there are no consequences for lying (zero risk), but the rewards are huge. The more you lie, the more the system slows downs and the more this drives the other party to utter despair, thus helping to cement the resident parent position even further.

Being a non-resident parent is more like being a prisoner of war.

Your equation analogy is very good. Do you mind if I quote it on the Twitter page?

 

[Ash]

Jose - wait to see what the safeguarding letter says. That will give you an indication of what will happen next - Cafcass will recommendations. If there are no safeguarding concerns they will recommend it goes to a first hearing (although there might still be a gate keeping hearing first to order that). If your ex makes allegations and Cafcass feel they have to investigate (ie don’t ignore the allegations as ridiculous) then they could recommend a section 7 report. I think you’d have a hearing before that is ordered though.

Wait to see what the Cafcass letter says. There have been some cases recently where it’s gone straight to first hearing because the ex undermined herself while making allegations (ie wasn’t plausible).

 

[blindex]

Your equation analogy is very good. Do you mind if I quote it on the Twitter page?

go for it

 

[Jose]

I found this video in youtube that looks exactly what I have been done. The same pattern

 

[Jose]

Does CAFCASS get late with their safeguarding letter? whats your experience dealing with CAFCASS?

 

[Ash]

They can be slow but you should have it before your hearing. When did they do the phone interviews? There's a thread on Cafcass experiences.

CAFCASS Experiences

How long does it take roughly for the courts to reply back once they receive the cafcass report, my 1st hearing was a week ago and still not heard anything back When you say the first hearing was last week - do you mean a gatekeeping hearing, or a hearing you attended (even if by video link)...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

 

[Jose]

2 weeks ago