Mum wants to reduce my days

[SpaceT]

Replied with something similar to your suggested biff response.
This was her reply,

I refuse to make any agreements on arrangements for the girls without them feeling happy with the arrangements.
As it stands they still want to do fri-sun with you, Monday Tuesday with me then wed Thurs with you.
Friday - Wednesday with me Wednesday night with you Thursday night with me then back to your weekend. I will be flexible on times that's fine.
I'm not agreeing to them being away for a full week after Christmas as the girls have said they don't want to be with you for that full week. I think it's in the girls best interest that that week be split up as this is what they've expressed they wish to happen.
26/27 dad
28/29 mum
30/31 dad

As I said before this will be the plan going forward, I won't be discussing this any more unless the girls again being this up in conversation and want to change the arrangements.
Thanks

 

[Ash]

So she's not giving you every Wednesday and Thursday. Just Wednesday Thursday one week?

So she is cutting the time basically. And giving you, what, 2 nights over Christmas holidays? Or is it 4 nights?

 

[Ash]

It works out (for you) as every other week-end Friday to Sunday then wednesday and thursday night one week and only wednesday night the alternate week. So that's 5 nights a fortnight. But not half the school holidays.

Her emails could be useful as she is refusing to make arrangements between parents and claiming childrens wishes dictate the schedule. How old are they again? The argument against that is - children might think they want something (if encouraged as well) but don't always know what's best for them. It takes regular and significant time to keep up a relationship. She is offering something reasonable for midweek time - so hard to argue for much more - but not something reasonable in the holidays.

Basically she's preventing 5 consecutive nights with you by not allowing that second thursday - and she is so keen to prevent this that she thinks it's fine for the kids to have a single night in each home to achieve it! ie single night wednesday with you, single night thursday with her, then the week-end with you.

I think I would reply as follows:

"Thank you for your email. As parents we need to agree what is in the childrens best interests, in addition to explaining to them why we have made such decisions in their interests.

I am not in agreement with only the single wednesday night in week 2 and no Sunday nights. I agreed to the week-ends with me ending on Sunday at 6pm every other week-end, on the basis the children are with me every Wednesday and Thursday night.

I cannot see how you can possibly think it's in the childrens best interests to have a single night with me on a wednesday, a single night with you on the thursday and then back to me on the Friday.

Please can you confirm if the following schedule is agreed:

Wednesday and Thursday night with me, Friday to Wednesday with you, Wednesday to Sunday 6pm with me, Sunday 6pm to Wednesday with you. And repeat.

As regards the Christmas holidays - there are 18 days of Christmas holidays and the children should have plenty of quality time with both of us. If you prefer to break the time into 3 or 4 days each instead of a full week and a couple of days each, then I am fine with that, providing the children spend a full 9 nights with each of us.

Kind regards, you"

She will probably just say no. Check how many nights Christmas holidays are - it's two weeks but it usually works out at 16 to 18 nights with the week-ends included.

 

[SpaceT]

No to Thursday every week,
So gone from 13 days a month down to 10.

Xmas holidays have dropped now from 8 to 6 nights out of the 14 (Christmas falls on my weekend so lost a night anyway)

Holidays were agreed in may for the full year. (I say agreed, she dictated but i was mostly happy with them!) I have generally had them weds-sun every half term holiday, and actually had them for more than her over the summer! (Two full weeks on top of the usual pattern)
Madness

 

[SpaceT]

Kids are 4,9 and 12

 

[Ash]

It's tricky - she could carry on doing this once it's accepted the kids dictate everything! On the other hand she is cleverly giving you good time so not so much to argue about in court - except the holidays. She might be able to argue childrens preferences for the 12 year old but not the other two - maybe she thinks that dictates it for all of them.

What are you thinking? Applying to court for 50/50? And defined holidays? Is she changing all the other holidays as well? If you had both Thursday nights it wouldn't be so bad - it would be near 50/50 (6/14).

What she is basically seeming to be doing is not let them spend more than 2 nights at a time with you - meaning they can never fully relax into a homelife with you.

 

[Ash]

How long had the previous schedule been going? I think I'd be tempted to apply for 50/50 and be prepared to go back down to 6 out of 14, and have defined holiday weeks. But it's a lot of hassle and money - on the other hand it will be for her too and will send the message that she can't just keep shaving time off when she feels like it. There's a possibility of negotiations for a consent order at the first hearing.

 

[SpaceT]

Started the 3 nights a week schedule in September, I’d been battling for that since March. Seperated this time last year. We’ve only got one more holiday agreed, feb half term, weds to Sunday.
I think an expensive court thing (or at least a semi expensive couple of sessions and the threat of court) is the only option now. she’s done the same ‘I refuse to talk about it’ act with shared debt, possessions, rent deposit etc, so this is just more crap to add to the list.

My big issue with this is it basically means I can’t plan anything, I could book a weekend away of a holiday and she can just decide to change it with a weeks notice.

 

[Ash]

Yes that's why a defined order is needed. Feb half term sounds ok but she should be agreeing all half terms that way. You're now left with uncertainty over dates and plans if she can use this excuse. With a new man on the scene she will be wanting priority over dates for her family plans. But she'll have to work around things like the rest of us.

So the three nights a week hasn't been going long then. What was it between March and September? What she clearly has an issue with is the kids being away for 5 nights (never mind 3 nights). Do you think there's a particular reason for this? Other than wanting her own way. ie have you also recently started up with a new partner?

 

[SpaceT]

Feb half term was decided in may so fully expect it to change now, will wait and see because if it doesn’t and she is suddenly fine with them being with me weds-sun that works in my favour.

Previous pattern was
Wk1 weds night Friday after school until Saturday yea time
Wk2 weds night. Saturday morning until Sunday pm.


Her partner had been on the scene since about April. Pretty much moved in now, so I expect Christmas in particular has changed to match his childcare arrangements
. She doesn’t seem to do much with my kids unless his are also there.

No, new partner that she knows about, no one near introducing to my kids. No change, we’d had a fairly quiet couple of month since September, cms change is the only thing that’s happened recently.

 

[Ash]

Ok I agree - why should you give up Sunday nights anyway? Once they're gone it would be hard to get them back again. Ok so you only had one a month but that should go to every other week-end, not taken away. You tried to negotiate an alternative night instead of the Sunday night and she just shaved two or 3 nights off.

Just read back

And the only times they have been stressed is when she had left them to pack their own stuff, or she has forgotten their school shoes, school tie etc.

So they are not stressed about Sunday nights - she is creating the stress by being awkward about organising things in advance.

So the best way the Sunday night should work (as with any school night) is you both have your own sets of uniform. There is usually only one pair of school shoes (although believe me I ended up with two sets of those at one time!) but that is why the children should come to you from school on Friday night - then they already come in uniform with everything needed - and you can provide any other clothing needed when they're with you.

I think the court would see these are not relevant excuses. A question - can you do school pickups? Or are you picking them up from her house because you're working and not able to do school pick ups?

Just saw your last message - that makes sense - changing the schedule to fit around the one her partners kids have (my ex did that too although it worked to my advantage for a while).

 

[Ash]

If only she could be honest about that and say - look it would be better if the kids schedule changed to fit in with their step siblings so how about xyz and you can have extra time in holidays instead.

 

[Ash]

Re her comment about - when you have somewhere permanent to live (or whatever it was). Does she have a relevant point? Because just thinking there's no point applying to court if Cafcass decide she has a fair point (eg if there's four of you in a 1 bed flat or something). But assume it's not like that. And you could add you plan to move at some point.

 

[SpaceT]

Ok I agree - why should you give up Sunday nights anyway? Once they're gone it would be hard to get them back again. Ok so you only had one a month but that should go to every other week-end, not taken away. You tried to negotiate an alternative night instead of the Sunday night and she just shaved two or 3 nights off.

Just read back


So they are not stressed about Sunday nights - she is creating the stress by being awkward about organising things in advance.

So the best way the Sunday night should work (as with any school night) is you both have your own sets of uniform. There is usually only one pair of school shoes (although believe me I ended up with two sets of those at one time!) but that is why the children should come to you from school on Friday night - then they already come in uniform with everything needed - and you can provide any other clothing needed when they're with you.

I think the court would see these are not relevant excuses. A question - can you do school pickups? Or are you picking them up from her house because you're working and not able to do school pick ups?

Just saw your last message - that makes sense - changing the schedule to fit around the one her partners kids have (my ex did that too although it worked to my advantage for a while).

Yes to doing school pickups, I pick them up from their mums on a Friday, so they can bring some stuff, ipad, switch that kind of thing. normally in their uniforms which I wash ready for Monday, no drama my end sometimes there is pe or something so the kit comes with them, their mum lives about 15minutes from school (and works at the youngests!) so it made sense to drop the devices back in the morning so they had them Monday when they got home, no real stress, kids just don’t like packing

 

[Ash]

Taking ipads and switches etc is a pain. I ended up having our own gadgets (mainly because my ex wouldn't allow anything from there to come to my house and vice versa!). Ideally you'd pick them up from school in uniform and go straight to your house. How many gadgets do they have?! One each? You could have an ipad and a switch at your house instead (they can share progress between the gadgets if signed in with the same account). It's more money though. It kind of makes it a big deal coming to you if they have to go home to get stuff first. The eldest one should have a smartphone anyway presumably. And there's no reason they need to do the same things in both homes. The good thing about a Switch is you can connect it to the TV and more than one person can play.

 

[Ash]

Then you could just say - no need to pack and pick things up - they can come straight from school to me and we have everything needed. Your ex probably wouldn't like that. She might be using the gadgets as an excuse to see them before they come to you.

 

[DW81]

Yes to doing school pickups, I pick them up from their mums on a Friday, so they can bring some stuff, ipad, switch that kind of thing. normally in their uniforms which I wash ready for Monday, no drama my end sometimes there is pe or something so the kit comes with them, their mum lives about 15minutes from school (and works at the youngests!) so it made sense to drop the devices back in the morning so they had them Monday when they got home, no real stress, kids just don’t like packing

I pick up a bag from ex whilst my son is at school on Friday, with everything he needs, and then pick him up from school for the weekend and drop him off on Monday and then drop off bag to her.

The most natural thing for the children is to come to you straight from school and be taken to school on Monday. For you to mix with their teachers, parents etc. Not moved between parents at the end of the weekend.

My son’s things move between our homes smoothly. If it wasn’t smooth and easy I would have had to just buy extra set of everything to keep at my place.

Admittedly we do live quite close so the bag pick up/drop off isn’t that bad.

One last thing, you don’t necessarily need an extra set of school uniform, you can just wash/iron the one they are wearing, ready for the next day. Just an idea.

 

[Ash]

That is a good point - although I had some dramas getting things dry before next morning sometimes. With a single overnight. Which is why I got a spare set. Sometimes they don’t need washing for next day but sometimes they do! Covered in mud, grass stains and food! My ex then used to keep the spare set and send him back in a set that was too small though - so I had two spare sets - and ended up buying all the uniform - so if you can manage without a spare set it’s better. The only satisfaction I got from that was knowing my son always looked well turned out when I took him to school and looking a mess when my ex took him to school - this was noticed by the school.

 

[SpaceT]

I pick up a bag from ex whilst my son is at school on Friday, with everything he needs, and then pick him up from school for the weekend and drop him off on Monday and then drop off bag to her.

The most natural thing for the children is to come to you straight from school and be taken to school on Monday. For you to mix with their teachers, parents etc. Not moved between parents at the end of the weekend.

My son’s things move between our homes smoothly. If it wasn’t smooth and easy I would have had to just buy extra set of everything to keep at my place.

Admittedly we do live quite close so the bag pick up/drop off isn’t that bad.

One last thing, you don’t necessarily need an extra set of school uniform, you can just wash/iron the one they are wearing, ready for the next day. Just an idea.

DW81, this is exactly what I used to do on my full weekends, no drama no stress my end, if the girls were to walk, I live five more minutes away from the school than their mum, but i drive them, they like to meet their friends at the park, then walk the rest of the way in, so we actually have five more minutes to get ready at mine than their mums, none of the reasons why it cant work make sense unfortunately.

Ash, the gadget situation is frustrating, i probably will end up getting another Ipad, because i'm a geek, but the one they currently use, i paid for, same as their switch!

I've left this alone over Christmas, to relax and enjoy some time with them, and have been trying to plan my reply to her last email, basically something along the lines of i in no way agree with, or endorse this change to the childcare agreement, I'm not sure if i should mention my only option now is to apply to the courts, maybe she will see sense, or maybe she will see it as an act of agression? I've typed out and deleted some strongly worded replies, because it wont achieve anything.

The christmas split was actually fine, and i feel myself arguing over the principle of it, i just dont think one parent should be allowed to change already pre agreeed plans with such short notice.

I've had a text from the kids mum today, my eldest is 'stressed' about her stay with me on Wednesday night, thursday morning is back to school day and she wants to walk with her friends and not be rushing in the morning, as i say above, she's been going to school, on time, with no stress and no drama, walking with her friends for the last year now, so I've no idea what the issue is now, I said she will be absolutely fine, and I will make the morning even more stress free than normal, but mum is not budging, so looks like I am being refused an overnight visit, again.

I've also had notice that mum has reported the drop in nights to the CSA, as expected really promptly, When we changed from 2 nights to three, I had to report it, and she took the maximum time allowed to confirm, and when we change from three to two, she does it as quickly as possible, funny that.