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Mum wants to reduce my days

SpaceT

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Hey all.
I’ve been having a near 50/50 split of childcare for a couple of months now, which took four months of me requesting more time with the kids.
Ex partner has said she has spoken to the children and they are upset at the amount of time they spend away from her (I have them for a max 3 nights in a row) so she is demanding I have them one night a fortnight less, immediately. Am I wrong for thinking that the kids just need to get used to it? They are 5,9,12 and I’m sure miss their mum, but 50/50 is generally a good thing right?
There are no welfare/safety issues at mine and I had a very active role in their lives pre separation
 
Hi

Yes 50/50 is a good thing.

You may want to concede on 1 night a week. The alternative may be mediation but then your ex may think you're looking to go to court.
 
Sorry its 1 less a fortnight isn't it not week. Are you paying maintenance?
 
Hi,
Considering it's only been 2 months, yes I agree they just need to adjust.
The fact she is demanding rather than suggesting makes me feel the there's some conflict. Is that right?
She should be suggesting mediation or the very least a chat to discuss this.
It sounds like it's her who can't cope, not the kids. Do they play up or say anything to suggest they're unhappy to be at yours 3 days in a row?
 
Are the children upset when they’re with you? If the answer is no. If they are completely happy and content with dad. It seems clear who is not enjoying the arrangement. And you have gauge at what level of selfish is the ex likely to reach.
 
If the 12 year old is likely to back up mum's story when asked, that could be an easy win for mum. 12 is just about the age where child's wishes and feeling are the biggest consideration.

Entering a conflict situation could result in allegations and be very drawn out. Mum may be preparing the ground for an application of her own, it is quite easy to get a MIAM without attending mediation or even inviting the other side to mediation. Your involvement prior to separation and the absence of safety/welfare concerns, may be obvious to you and any reasonable person. My experience was that the court is incapable of seeing the bleeding obvious.
 
Sorry its 1 less a fortnight isn't it not week. Are you paying maintenance?
Thanks for the replies,
Yes I pay maintenance, through the csa. My increase in days with them has jumped me a band (by one day) to 157 days for our assessment year, (our current agreed arrangements would be over 175 days in a full assessment year- don’t get me started)
I’ve already pushed for mediation, she refused to attend the second session, and this week I have received the Maim forms.
There is - due unfortunately to her being unwilling to discuss any aspect of our separation (she’s got the rented house, furniture, belongings, I’ve got the matrimonial debt) but I’ve been very careful not to communicate, either verbally or written in any way that could be taken as aggressive or abusive (I’m just trying to be a grown up)

The kids show no sign of upset really when they are here, she is constantly FaceTiming and messaging telling them how much she misses them, which isn’t helpful. And the only times they have been stressed is when she had left them to pack their own stuff, or she has forgotten their school shoes, school tie etc.
 
She is the one with the problem. She is guilting the children. A normal parent would say "have a great time with dad, see you in a few days." And reassure them they're fine as they have plans to meet friends etc. Even if the mother is sat sobbing into her wine, the kids don't need to worry about her.
My partners ex insisted both kids had phones (no discussion with dad) so she can hound them incessantly when they were with him. We've seen messages on his daughters phone where she's in touch all day when she's at school even! They have mental health problems.
 
What is the current schedule? Is the 3 nights over a week-end? Eg Friday, Saturday, Sunday? And one midweek night as well?

A 50/50 schedule would be the 3 night week-end mentioned above, plus 2 consecutive midweek nights. So if you had Monday Tuesday every week, then on alternate weeks, when it's your week-end, they would be tacked on to make 5 nights (eg Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues).

So no three nights is not too much. However, ideally a schedule has to work for both parents (the kids will usually accept it if both parents are ok with it but my son for example did say he didn't want to be away from either parent for more than 3 or 4 days and didn't like just one night here, he wanted two nights. So I did have him here every 3 or 4 days. But unfortunately got stuck with a single midweek night - he got used to it.

It does sound like she is emotionally manipulating them though and she shouldn't be calling them all the time.

It is better if you can sort it out without court or she might diss you to the children - if she's like this over them spending 3 nights with you, imagine what she'd be like if you applied to court - crying all over them and saying Dad is causing her problems etc.

If mediation hasn't worked, you could try a BIFF email trying to negotiate. BIFF = Brief, Informative, Friendly, Formal. Keep all personal tone out of it. With it being slightly formal as well it might make her decide to try and agree something as she might get the feeling that you could start doing something official, by the wording.

So you could maybe send something like this (but need to know what the current schedule is first).

"Dear Ex Name

Arrangements for the children

As we have been discussing recently at mediation, I'd like us to agree a suitable schedule for the children with both of us. I feel the current arrangement works very well - it means the children get a good week-end with both of us on alternate weeks, but get to see me midweek for 1 night a week as well. This is a fairly standard arrangement for children with separated parents and it's in the childrens best interests to have regular and significant time with both their parents.

However I understand you are not happy with them being away from you for three consecutive nights. I am concerned your anxieties about this are going to affect the children, and it's important that we discuss and agree this between us, in their best interests. The children will be happy in either home with either of us. It is not easy for us to not see them every day of the week- I would also like to see much more of them, but accept that their care needs to be shared between us as they need both of us.

We could adjust the schedule slightly if that helps but I propose the following:

Every other week-end with me on alternate week-ends from school on Friday through to school drop off on Monday (and the same with you the alternate week-end). Alternate Monday nights and Thursday nights with me. So the Thursday night would follow their week-end with me and the Monday night would follow their week-end with you. This would mean they spend 3 out of the 4 midweek nights with you each week, but would only go 3 or 4 days between seeing me - so they see both of us regularly each week.

Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed agreeement. I don't agree that 3 nights away is too long for the children. When it comes to holidays it will be longer than that, and if it was a 50/50 shared care arrangement, the children would be away for 5 consecutive nights fortnightly.

Kind regards - you"
 
Hi,
Considering it's only been 2 months, yes I agree they just need to adjust.
The fact she is demanding rather than suggesting makes me feel the there's some conflict. Is that right?
She should be suggesting mediation or the very least a chat to discuss this.
It sounds like it's her who can't cope, not the kids. Do they play up or say anything to suggest they're unhappy to be at yours 3 days in a row?
What is the current schedule? Is the 3 nights over a week-end? Eg Friday, Saturday, Sunday? And one midweek night as well?

A 50/50 schedule would be the 3 night week-end mentioned above, plus 2 consecutive midweek nights. So if you had Monday Tuesday every week, then on alternate weeks, when it's your week-end, they would be tacked on to make 5 nights (eg Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues).

So no three nights is not too much. However, ideally a schedule has to work for both parents (the kids will usually accept it if both parents are ok with it but my son for example did say he didn't want to be away from either parent for more than 3 or 4 days and didn't like just one night here, he wanted two nights. So I did have him here every 3 or 4 days. But unfortunately got stuck with a single midweek night - he got used to it.

It does sound like she is emotionally manipulating them though and she shouldn't be calling them all the time.

It is better if you can sort it out without court or she might diss you to the children - if she's like this over them spending 3 nights with you, imagine what she'd be like if you applied to court - crying all over them and saying Dad is causing her problems etc.

If mediation hasn't worked, you could try a BIFF email trying to negotiate. BIFF = Brief, Informative, Friendly, Formal. Keep all personal tone out of it. With it being slightly formal as well it might make her decide to try and agree something as she might get the feeling that you could start doing something official, by the wording.

So you could maybe send something like this (but need to know what the current schedule is first).

"Dear Ex Name

Arrangements for the children

As we have been discussing recently at mediation, I'd like us to agree a suitable schedule for the children with both of us. I feel the current arrangement works very well - it means the children get a good week-end with both of us on alternate weeks, but get to see me midweek for 1 night a week as well. This is a fairly standard arrangement for children with separated parents and it's in the childrens best interests to have regular and significant time with both their parents.

However I understand you are not happy with them being away from you for three consecutive nights. I am concerned your anxieties about this are going to affect the children, and it's important that we discuss and agree this between us, in their best interests. The children will be happy in either home with either of us. It is not easy for us to not see them every day of the week- I would also like to see much more of them, but accept that their care needs to be shared between us as they need both of us.

We could adjust the schedule slightly if that helps but I propose the following:

Every other week-end with me on alternate week-ends from school on Friday through to school drop off on Monday (and the same with you the alternate week-end). Alternate Monday nights and Thursday nights with me. So the Thursday night would follow their week-end with me and the Monday night would follow their week-end with you. This would mean they spend 3 out of the 4 midweek nights with you each week, but would only go 3 or 4 days between seeing me - so they see both of us regularly each week.

Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed agreeement. I don't agree that 3 nights away is too long for the children. When it comes to holidays it will be longer than that, and if it was a 50/50 shared care arrangement, the children would be away for 5 consecutive nights fortnightly.

Kind regards - you"
Really like the email, sounds good.

Our current agreement is,
Week 1 - weds,Friday,Saturday
Week2 Tuesday, weds, Thursday
Every four weeks I have them for the full weekend, so Sunday night also.
She wants to drop the Tuesday out of week 2.

I’m more than happy to look at changing days rather than duration,
 
So that's basically 3 nights a week but 13 nights a fortnight. I think it seems that what she doesn't like is the 3 consecutive midweek nights. So if you can politely propose something that means you don't lose a night but has a better midweek schedule for both then you might be able to get it all sorted.

Does this schedule work like that to fit round some kind of work pattern you have? Ideally it would be

Week 1 Wednesday Thursday
Week 2 Wed Thurs, Fri, Sat Sun

Then repeat. That is 2-2-5-5. The same two midweek nights each and every other week-end each through to Monday morning. She's unlikely to agree to that as it would give you 14 nights per four weeks (ie an extra night). So to keep the same number of nights you could have the wed thursday nights the first week - then just the wed the following week - then the Fri Sat Sun fortnightly.

Or -as that would mean a single night with each parent (eg the single wed night with you then a single thursday night with her - it would be better to have the alternate midweek nights like I mentioned.

So I would suggest the following:

Week 1 Wed and Thursday nights
Week 2 Tues night then Friday through to Monday morning

and repeat. That is 2-4-1-2-3-2 over four weeks. More evenly spaced out and she has more midweek nights.

Of course she still might not agree if she doesn't like them being away Sunday nights either.

Or - you could just agree to drop the tuesday night but say you want to exchange it for the Sunday night over your week-end instead.

It's not a bad schedule even if you did end up dropping a night even if that's annoying but I think I would adapt that email to say something like

"Dear Ex Name


Arrangements for the children


As we have been discussing recently at mediation, I'd like us to agree a suitable schedule for the children with both of us. I understand you are not happy with them being away from you for three consecutive nights midweek one week. I think it's important that we try to discuss and agree this between us, to avoid the children feeling anxious about the situation and disagreements - so everything is in their best interests. The children will be happy in either home with either of us. It is not easy for us to not see them every day of the week- I would also like to see much more of them, but accept that their care needs to be shared between us as they need both of us.

I propose the following adjustment to the schedule, in line with your comments about not including the tuesday night one week, but I am also mindful the children need a schedule that is consistent and gives them quality time with both of us:

Week 1 Wednesday and Thursday nights with me
Week 2 Tuesday night with me then Friday night to Monday morning with me.

This is the same number of nights as before, but means you have more midweek time with them, and they also get a full week-end with each of us every other week-end

This works out as 2-4-2-2-3-2 over a four week period and a stable schedule for the children with both of us, both midweek and at week ends.

Please let me know your thoughts on this proposed agreeement. I don't agree that reducing the childrens time with me is in their interests, but that adjusting the schedule as proposed above, is the solution

Kind regards - you
 
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I would just send that. If she's awkward and just says no just drop the tuesday then it's tricky. Is it worth going to court over 1 night when you'd be getting the equivalent of 5 nights a fortnight and a better schedule.
 
If she did reply saying no to that then I would follow it up with another email asking why she will not agree to the same number of nights with a better schedule for all, as proposed?

Then think about applying to court for the children to live with both parents 50/50 on a 2-2-5-5 basis (she might then agree to a consent order for 6 nights a fortnight rather than risk you getting a 50/50 order). Or - she might do what some ex's do when a Dad applies to court, and make allegations of abuse about you to Cafcass, dragging things out for over a year and possibly with only supervised time with the kids until the allegations are investigated. You know best whether she is the type to resort to such tactics out of anger or whatever.
 
Hey guys, thank you for the advice so far, I haven’t made any contact with the children’s mother yet, I’ve had this email tonight. Any advice on how to respond would be really appreciated.

The girls have come back tonight and I had a chat to them before cracker night about arrangements with days they come to you and days they're with me. I thought you'd have had a talk to them about it last night but I don't think that happened from what the girls have said. They're still very much wanting to drop the Tuesday with you after they have been to for a weekend. So I would like this to start from next week as they have been very clear that this is how they want to do things going forward. They also want to do the arrangements that I sent you for the week after Christmas I think that's playing on their minds a bit.
So just to make it clear they will now come to you on a Wednesday Thursday after a weekend with you and a Wednesday after a weekend with me.
Thanks “
Really stressing out about this.
 
Did you get your email sent first or not? Basically she is now dictating when you can have them.
 
If you didn't send your email then I'd sent it now - it fits with her dropping the tuesdays anyway. I'd also add "I think it's important these arrangements are agreed between us, as parents, so the girls don't feel in the middle of conflicting views.
 
No, I’ve not replied at all yet, I was going to wait and try and speak to the kids this weekend, but you’re right about making sure they don’t feel in the middle!
 
Yes that is what she is doing - putting them in the middle - so something like that in an email could be good evidence later if you do go to court. I would just send the email. The kids will already be under pressure to say what she’s told them. And they don’t have the emotional maturity to understand the concept of how schedules work and what time differences can make. So these are “adult matters”
 
Awesome, I agree so I think I’m not going to raise it with the kids, I’ve sent the email, will update when she replies
Thanks ash
 
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