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Mediation or Court???
- Thread starter OliverR
- Start date
Apply for a court order to make arrangements for a child or resolve a dispute about their upbringing: Form C100
Use this form to apply for a 'child arrangements', 'prohibited steps' or 'specific issue' order under the Children Act 1989. You might be able to apply online.
Have you got the sign off from the Mediator? You need this pronto since MIAM was in June.
They should not inform Ex that you have signed off, only cancel the 23rd appt.
SS.
hi Oliver, hope you are well. just giving you my insight although you have had alot of useful information from the members already, but i thought i would give you my view and experience. My daughter was 3 years old and my son was 11months old when i left their mum and started mediation. I can only speak for myself but to put an age on a child and saying he/she is too young is a matter of opinion. in my eyes i was an equal parent and the child equally needs me there. when i started my mediation EX wanted to move the date (informally told me), my response knowing it would delay matters was that i was not going to extend any further time and that i would attend the meeting with or without her knowing i would then get the clearance needed to apply to court with my C100. in my opinion when parents split it is EXTREMELY rare that both parties can be amicable and if they can then hats off to them but in my view matters will always have to go to court just to get everything in black and white so there can be no grey areas and bending over the barrel so to speak. my advise to you is as members above have said apply to the court with your C100. The courts will already see you have tried to mediate and that unfortunately is now costing you more time without your son so you have no choice but to progress matters with urgency.
what you have asked for is very reasonable given the circumstances. what i would say is do not stall matters and do what you can in terms of your application as quick as you can. EX's can become very sneaky and devious and whilst im not aware of the reason or cause of the breakdown between you and your ex, when the EX finds out you are challenging her set up and want to go legal, they will try and do all sorts such as making false accusations against you just one of many fake victim cards they may try. this again will go against you in the sense it is a very long process if she brought any allegations up, you would also then have the added stress of cafcass and investigations etc. not to scare you just letting you know be smart with your approach and dont let your heart think your EX is reasonable to mediate with. get your application sent off, get it done by the court in black and white so you know how the next 16 years of your sons life will pan out to a degree. more importantly your EX cannot do as she pleases when it comes to your time with your son.
best of luck remember there is plenty of support in this forum and many members who can give you guidance if you are unsure about anything.
what you have asked for is very reasonable given the circumstances. what i would say is do not stall matters and do what you can in terms of your application as quick as you can. EX's can become very sneaky and devious and whilst im not aware of the reason or cause of the breakdown between you and your ex, when the EX finds out you are challenging her set up and want to go legal, they will try and do all sorts such as making false accusations against you just one of many fake victim cards they may try. this again will go against you in the sense it is a very long process if she brought any allegations up, you would also then have the added stress of cafcass and investigations etc. not to scare you just letting you know be smart with your approach and dont let your heart think your EX is reasonable to mediate with. get your application sent off, get it done by the court in black and white so you know how the next 16 years of your sons life will pan out to a degree. more importantly your EX cannot do as she pleases when it comes to your time with your son.
best of luck remember there is plenty of support in this forum and many members who can give you guidance if you are unsure about anything.
This article in the legal resources section at the top tells you how to go about downloading and completing the C100. I would put that child lives with both parents. Because there are no orders in place currently that designate who the child lives with. Also look at the other resource on that tab above for filling out section 5b. You can download the form as a pdf, fill it in on computer, save it and keep going back to edit it till it's right. Then print out four copies (one to keep, three to send to court). The online option is quicker and easier but be very careful filling it in - the questions aren't quite the same.
The application sets the bar from the outset - it's hard to change what you've asked for later, so think about what to put/ask for in terms of an order that will last. Not something vague. Or you'll get a vague order. Cafcass read it and can form an opinion as to whether it, and the tone, is reasonable from the start. I have always written it as if I am directly addressing a Judge - because they read it too.
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
The application sets the bar from the outset - it's hard to change what you've asked for later, so think about what to put/ask for in terms of an order that will last. Not something vague. Or you'll get a vague order. Cafcass read it and can form an opinion as to whether it, and the tone, is reasonable from the start. I have always written it as if I am directly addressing a Judge - because they read it too.
How to complete the C100 Form
We thought a guide to completing the form could be useful. This is the C100 form for applying for a Child Arrangements Order, Specific Issues Order or Prohibited Steps Order. C100 form on .Gov website If you scroll down the page you will see...
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
Thanks for your comments/ help chaps , it appears as though she is going to go through with mediation on the 23rd but in the meantime I will start to fill out thd form . It will then appear as I've at least tried to mediate with her? But I'm going to hold firm on what I'm looking for .
Or is it best to cancel mediation and apply to court , don't get me wrong if it doesn't happen on thd 23rd then I would be bothering anyway . Just wondered if it looked like I wasn't being reasonable by cancelling it .
Or is it best to cancel mediation and apply to court , don't get me wrong if it doesn't happen on thd 23rd then I would be bothering anyway . Just wondered if it looked like I wasn't being reasonable by cancelling it .
It won't matter one bit.
Don't 'start filling in the form'......fill it in now and file it!
You are not being unreasonable or acting aggressively, and your viewpoint regarding sharing care is excellent.
Get on with it!
SS.
Don't 'start filling in the form'......fill it in now and file it!
You are not being unreasonable or acting aggressively, and your viewpoint regarding sharing care is excellent.
Get on with it!
SS.
Afterthought:
Don't cancel it until just before cancellation charges apply and your application is already submitted. She may cancel/postpone it beforehand anyway.
And are you sure the 3 month sign off certificate is still valid? That's crucial for everything.
HTH, SS.
Don't cancel it until just before cancellation charges apply and your application is already submitted. She may cancel/postpone it beforehand anyway.
And are you sure the 3 month sign off certificate is still valid? That's crucial for everything.
HTH, SS.
My MIAM was in June I waited and contacted the mediator in Sept (just inside the three months) at the time she asked if I wanted to be signed off and at the time I said I would try to mediate . As the process has started and I have an appointment (although it's been over 4 months now since I did my MIAM ) would I need to do another?
Is it worth me emailing the mediator to check I can still be signed off? Assuming she will keep this to herself
Is it worth me emailing the mediator to check I can still be signed off? Assuming she will keep this to herself
You should email asap and she should act confidentially. I was sent a copy of the ex's sign off once it had been done, i.e. that's when the cat is let out of the bag.
SS.
I've started filling out the C100 , aim to have it finished over the weekend . I've not found the section where you put the schedule you are looking for but as I've previously mentioned I'm looking for.....
Everyother weekend Friday 5 o clock to Sunday at 4pm
1 night in the week (each week)
And various other things such as holidays etc .
With the night in the week my ex has a Wednesday off every week with her mother I'm thinking they will apose a Tuesday or Wednesday night because of this , saying they make plans for the day with Oliver . Therefore that kind of railroads me as to what night I pick .... for example if I pick a Thursday night then some weeks I would have him three consecutive nights (which she will kick off about ) likewise a Monday eve will almost be the same ...
Also when filling these out I'm guessing you have to be specific... every year I have a shut down at work during Christmas and aswell as sharing the Christmas and boxing day I'd like to have my son some of the days between boxing day and new year but obviously the days fall different every year so I'm unsure how this would be put on paper for example this year
Tuesday 27th of Dec - Friday 30th of Dec i could potentially only see him an evening in that time and the following weekend (31st &1st) might not be my weekend with him .
Everyother weekend Friday 5 o clock to Sunday at 4pm
1 night in the week (each week)
And various other things such as holidays etc .
With the night in the week my ex has a Wednesday off every week with her mother I'm thinking they will apose a Tuesday or Wednesday night because of this , saying they make plans for the day with Oliver . Therefore that kind of railroads me as to what night I pick .... for example if I pick a Thursday night then some weeks I would have him three consecutive nights (which she will kick off about ) likewise a Monday eve will almost be the same ...
Also when filling these out I'm guessing you have to be specific... every year I have a shut down at work during Christmas and aswell as sharing the Christmas and boxing day I'd like to have my son some of the days between boxing day and new year but obviously the days fall different every year so I'm unsure how this would be put on paper for example this year
Tuesday 27th of Dec - Friday 30th of Dec i could potentially only see him an evening in that time and the following weekend (31st &1st) might not be my weekend with him .
Don't overthink the C100.
Nature of application: Child Arrangements Order
Concerns about risk of harm: Domestic abuse, child abduction, substance abuse etc
Additional Information required: Leave of the court, urgent hearing, international elements, etc, etc
Section 1 - Details about the children: Names, DOB's, applicants relationship to child/ren, local authority involvement, children's parents, who they live with etc
Section 2 - Requirement to attend a MIAM: Emergency protection, care or supervision orders? Claiming exemption. Have you attended a MIAM?
Section 3 - MIAM exemption: Domestic violence, Child protection concerns, Urgency etc
Section 4 - Mediators Certificate Details: The applicant has attended a MIAM, mediators FMC Registration no, Family Mediation Service/Sole trader name, address, date.
Section 5 - Why are you making this application?: Permission to apply (For example, if you're a grandparent with no parental responsibility).
If permission to apply is not required, enter brief details. This is where you could enter your suggested schedule.
This is also the section that has the potential to be our undoing. If emotions are raw. The urge to use this section to let rip can sometimes be uncontrollable. But it cannot be understated how detrimental this can be. Remember that CAFCASS read the C100, so keep it calm, civilised, non critical, and professional. No calling the ex a f**** etc etc. Keep it simple and to the point.
I am applying for a CAO because the schedule I currently have in place for my son is in frequent dispute and the days/times that were initially agreed is failing and creating conflict. I currently have my son on X Y dates/times. In order to mitigate any further disputes, an order is sought to make child arrangements clearer and more binding which will hopefully prevent/bring an end to any further disputes. Or something to that effect.
The dates and times I would like are....X Y Z etc.
As your case progresses, this is were the opportunity to submit the Parenting Agreement that I shared with you when you first asked for help comes into play. And this is where you will be able to set out clear and specific dates and times, with special days like birthdays, Christmas etc, suggesting consideration and flexibility regarding working patterns etc.
Nature of application: Child Arrangements Order
Concerns about risk of harm: Domestic abuse, child abduction, substance abuse etc
Additional Information required: Leave of the court, urgent hearing, international elements, etc, etc
Section 1 - Details about the children: Names, DOB's, applicants relationship to child/ren, local authority involvement, children's parents, who they live with etc
Section 2 - Requirement to attend a MIAM: Emergency protection, care or supervision orders? Claiming exemption. Have you attended a MIAM?
Section 3 - MIAM exemption: Domestic violence, Child protection concerns, Urgency etc
Section 4 - Mediators Certificate Details: The applicant has attended a MIAM, mediators FMC Registration no, Family Mediation Service/Sole trader name, address, date.
Section 5 - Why are you making this application?: Permission to apply (For example, if you're a grandparent with no parental responsibility).
If permission to apply is not required, enter brief details. This is where you could enter your suggested schedule.
This is also the section that has the potential to be our undoing. If emotions are raw. The urge to use this section to let rip can sometimes be uncontrollable. But it cannot be understated how detrimental this can be. Remember that CAFCASS read the C100, so keep it calm, civilised, non critical, and professional. No calling the ex a f**** etc etc. Keep it simple and to the point.
I am applying for a CAO because the schedule I currently have in place for my son is in frequent dispute and the days/times that were initially agreed is failing and creating conflict. I currently have my son on X Y dates/times. In order to mitigate any further disputes, an order is sought to make child arrangements clearer and more binding which will hopefully prevent/bring an end to any further disputes. Or something to that effect.
The dates and times I would like are....X Y Z etc.
As your case progresses, this is were the opportunity to submit the Parenting Agreement that I shared with you when you first asked for help comes into play. And this is where you will be able to set out clear and specific dates and times, with special days like birthdays, Christmas etc, suggesting consideration and flexibility regarding working patterns etc.
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Just an update , my ex messaged a few weeks ago saying she is breaking contact until mediation is done so that I don't try and bully her apparently? Anyway it suits me not to have contact with her unless it concerns our son directly obviously (if there was a problem) . A week later after she broke contact she messaged saying she'd booked there family holidays next year , cruise in Feb, long weekend in April and two weeks in Sept...no dates . I just ignored it . She has messaged this morning asking if it's OK? I asked for dates she gave me them. With mediation less than a couple of weeks away now finally... I said we could talk about it in mediation . Her reply was it won't get sorted there and she will get a court order to take him away . I'm quite happy to let him go away I have never stopped him however I've lost time that hasn't been replaced so rather than agree today over text I said mediation is the place to discuss these things .
Am I right to do this , opinions are appreciated .
On another note I will have my C100 firm completed today , there's a part about my solicitor . Is it recommended to get a solicitor to check it over before I send, which will likely be straight after mediation a week Wednesday
Am I right to do this , opinions are appreciated .
On another note I will have my C100 firm completed today , there's a part about my solicitor . Is it recommended to get a solicitor to check it over before I send, which will likely be straight after mediation a week Wednesday
You have done the right thing referring vacation matters to mediation. Please ignore the vacuous business about her getting a Court Order, it's totally irrelevant.
I am happy to check the application over, I'm sure Ash would be too, if this helps pm either of us for an email address.
SS.
I am happy to check the application over, I'm sure Ash would be too, if this helps pm either of us for an email address.
SS.
Thankyou for your reply . I sourced a mediator did my MIAM in June and invited her in Sept as at the time she was off signed off work sick (mental health) I respected that bided my time but as I was messed around over a midweek access (1 week only ) as she'd been away the weekend previous I contacted the mediator to invite her. She agreed but said she couldn't mediate for two weeks then tresheduked a few days before it was meant to happen today she is saying she wants to change the mediator and do shuttle mediation and that her doctor will provide a letter due to her illness and that she will have a representative there.
I'm thinking of just getting my c100 in now and skipping mediation , the court process is likely to be long and trying to arrange another mediator for her to not agree is just a waste of time , but please let me know your thoughts ?
I'm thinking of just getting my c100 in now and skipping mediation , the court process is likely to be long and trying to arrange another mediator for her to not agree is just a waste of time , but please let me know your thoughts ?
Ok so she knows you might apply to court because you started mediation, she has delayed mediation and meanwhile booked up loads of holidays to keep your child away from you. Yes, get the application in and don't wait for mediation. They sometimes order mediation between first and final hearing anyway. Don't agree to anything. No you don't want her taking all these holidays - because in between those holidays she will be dominating your child's time as well and you won't get a regular routine. Of course she is entitled to have holidays - but it should be half the holidays with each parent because otherwise you won't be able to keep up the bond without enough time and it can lead to estrangement.
Have you seen the guides under legal resources? To filling in the C100?
This one is the suggested wording for 5b (sample) - the bit where you say what you want
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
This is the guide to completing the form
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
Are you doing the online application or the paper download?
Have you seen the guides under legal resources? To filling in the C100?
This one is the suggested wording for 5b (sample) - the bit where you say what you want
Sample wording for C100 application
Attached are two versions of sample wording for section 5b of the C100 form. The sample wording assumes it's for a Child Arrangements Application. One version is more of a straightforward application. The other version is more for if...
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
This is the guide to completing the form
How to complete the C100 Form
We thought a guide to completing the form could be useful. This is the C100 form for applying for a Child Arrangements Order, Specific Issues Order or Prohibited Steps Order. C100 form on .Gov website If you scroll down the page you will see...
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
Are you doing the online application or the paper download?
Thanks Ash , on page 1 "nature of application" i have ticked both boxes for Child Arrangements Order and specify issue order. Due to the amount of time im asking for (not 50/50) would this be correct otherwise i would give her residency would i not? I am at section 5b and the sample wording you gave me a link to suggests putting it all on a separate sheet rather than try and fit it all in the small box available.
I was going to do a paper copy? rather than download ? Would you recommend one over the other?
I was going to do a paper copy? rather than download ? Would you recommend one over the other?
I haven't used the online application. It's easier but I've tended to do the paper copy and take it to court myself. It's slightly more hassle as means photocopying it all three times and stapling it together (and it's thick to staple together). I understand from others, there's an option to add more on the online copy as well (for 5b - if it's called 5b on there).
If you're asking for less than about a third of the time then you would only be able to ask for your child to "spend time with" you and yes that would mean the Mother has "residency" - ie the lives with order.
You can ask for lives with both parents without it being 50/50 time but then it usually needs to be at least 5 nights a fortnight - which would be every other week-end (3 nights - Friday to Monday morning) and one midweek overnight plus half the holidays.
Personally I would ask for more than you want so you have room to negotiate down. I learned the hard way not wanting to seem to ask for too much. Don't ask, don't get and if you do ask you may get less than you asked for.
I think it's a good idea to ask for "lives with both parents" if you can do 5 nights a fortnight. It can help avoid some issues later if your ex is going to be a bit dictating. It makes you more equal in that neither of you is the "parent with care" - you both are. If the Mother has the lives with order she is also the "parent with care" and some Mothers can abuse that (eg tell schools not to include you in info or let you come to the school etc). The parent with care card can be quite powerful.
I think what you were saying earlier was you didn't think your ex would agree to a Wednesday night. So just ask for "a midweek night" and sort that out later. You have time to propose something more detailed later and tbh it really doesn't matter what your ex does midweek - she can change it. It's about what is the best schedule for the child. You're worrying that your ex won't agree to xyz. No she probably won't agree to anything but the court process will help. There can be negotiations before hearings (usually only if you use lawyers) and during those parents can both be pressured into compromising and reaching a reasonable agreement. If there are no negotiations and she doesn't agree to anything, the court will decide and the standard a court will order is every other week-end, a midweek night (usually Wednesday) and half the holidays.
So are you worried your ex will think you're trying to steal the child from her? One way round the Wednesday night issue would be if you ask for 50/50 - that would be two midweek nights and it would be the same two each week - either Monday and Tuesday or Wednesday and Thursday. Problem solved
. You have Monday and Tuesday each week. But I think you're not wanting 50/50 time is that right?
One option is what I have which is alternate Monday and Thursday nights. That was so my son didn't go more than 3 or 4 days without seeing me. So the Thursday night follows his week-end with me, then he comes on the Monday (after his week-end with ex) then to me on the Friday again for the week-end, then back on Thursday again.
That is not something that is usually ordered - they usually order the same night each week - it's more likely to get the alternate Mondays and Thursdays by agreement (but it's possible the court might order it if you give a good enough explanation and even say you're aware Wednesdays aren't good for the Mother). And your ex might even agree to those midweek nights if it suits her for it not to be wednesdays.
Before you can submit your application you need a mediation sign off that shows you've had a MIAM within the last 4 months signed by the mediator. So you might need to ask them if they can sign you off.
If you're asking for less than about a third of the time then you would only be able to ask for your child to "spend time with" you and yes that would mean the Mother has "residency" - ie the lives with order.
You can ask for lives with both parents without it being 50/50 time but then it usually needs to be at least 5 nights a fortnight - which would be every other week-end (3 nights - Friday to Monday morning) and one midweek overnight plus half the holidays.
Personally I would ask for more than you want so you have room to negotiate down. I learned the hard way not wanting to seem to ask for too much. Don't ask, don't get and if you do ask you may get less than you asked for.
I think it's a good idea to ask for "lives with both parents" if you can do 5 nights a fortnight. It can help avoid some issues later if your ex is going to be a bit dictating. It makes you more equal in that neither of you is the "parent with care" - you both are. If the Mother has the lives with order she is also the "parent with care" and some Mothers can abuse that (eg tell schools not to include you in info or let you come to the school etc). The parent with care card can be quite powerful.
I think what you were saying earlier was you didn't think your ex would agree to a Wednesday night. So just ask for "a midweek night" and sort that out later. You have time to propose something more detailed later and tbh it really doesn't matter what your ex does midweek - she can change it. It's about what is the best schedule for the child. You're worrying that your ex won't agree to xyz. No she probably won't agree to anything but the court process will help. There can be negotiations before hearings (usually only if you use lawyers) and during those parents can both be pressured into compromising and reaching a reasonable agreement. If there are no negotiations and she doesn't agree to anything, the court will decide and the standard a court will order is every other week-end, a midweek night (usually Wednesday) and half the holidays.
So are you worried your ex will think you're trying to steal the child from her? One way round the Wednesday night issue would be if you ask for 50/50 - that would be two midweek nights and it would be the same two each week - either Monday and Tuesday or Wednesday and Thursday. Problem solved
. You have Monday and Tuesday each week. But I think you're not wanting 50/50 time is that right?One option is what I have which is alternate Monday and Thursday nights. That was so my son didn't go more than 3 or 4 days without seeing me. So the Thursday night follows his week-end with me, then he comes on the Monday (after his week-end with ex) then to me on the Friday again for the week-end, then back on Thursday again.
That is not something that is usually ordered - they usually order the same night each week - it's more likely to get the alternate Mondays and Thursdays by agreement (but it's possible the court might order it if you give a good enough explanation and even say you're aware Wednesdays aren't good for the Mother). And your ex might even agree to those midweek nights if it suits her for it not to be wednesdays.
Before you can submit your application you need a mediation sign off that shows you've had a MIAM within the last 4 months signed by the mediator. So you might need to ask them if they can sign you off.