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Mediation or Court???

OliverR

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I currently have my son (now 21 months old) to the schedule below



Week 1 Saturday 9am – 9am Sunday

Week 2 Sunday 9am – 5pm

Repeat….



Ive had this access since he was 7 months and have been told its good access so im lucky to have got that but my ex keeps reminding me of that and is not looking to increase it anytime soon .



However I have gone 4 weekends in the past two months without seeing him due to my ex taking him away. With my son becoming 2 fast approaching im struggling to know which route to take as Im pretty sure she will keep this schedule as long as she can as it suits her. I did a MIAM back in June but at the time instructed the mediator to not contact my ex and left things as they were. I have this morning contacted the mediator and they told me I could either offer her the chance to mediate or get a court application. I’m unsure what is best to do , it almost seems like not giving her the chance to mediate would work against me down the line ( although I don’t think she will agree to me having him every other weekend and holidays etc once he is 2) Anybody been in this situation. Will the courts view me (The dad) in a better light if ive tried to mediate with her?
 
Given the child's age you are probably best with just mediation at this point.

Are you happy with the time you get, the pattern itself. If not what are you looking for
 
Yes it's always viewed favourably if you try and resolve matters out of court. (It's easier on your spirit and bank balance too!)

I take it your current arrangement is part of an informal Parenting Agreement or Plan seeing as you have no Child Arrangements Order issued by the Family Court?

How much detail is in the Parenting Agreement/Plan you currently have in place other than the schedule?

This link takes you to the Parenting Agreement template provided by the DWK's forum and provides really good detail regarding what is worth considering in such a Parenting Agreement/Plan. https://www.separatedfamilies.info/home/parenting-apart/parenting-agreements/

A section of it that may help you solidify yours better is the Management of the Agreement section.

  • Both parents agree to review the effectiveness of this agreement on an annual basis.
  • If either party believes that this agreement is breaking down, they will resolve the issues by communicating them and making arrangements to review the agreement.
  • You will resolve disputes of the workings of the agreement with brief and polite communication.
  • If either party wishes to vary this agreement they must briefly and politely communicate this to the other parent.
  • If variations either party wishes to make cannot be agreed both parties agree to seek and attend mediation to resolve.
 
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Has your mediation run out now? A MIAM lasts for 3 months. So even if it was late June, it's now late September - so you'd probably need to have another MIAM anyway if you were thinking about applying to court. Ask the mediator about that.

Ok so the schedule isn't too bad even though it's only one night a week. But you have now had a lot of missed week-ends and presumably she didn't offer any alternative days or make up time - which is not good enough.

Yes try mediation first - the mediator might persuade her this is unreasonable and you could also try asking her for every other full week-end and a midweek overnight instead - so she still gets the opportunity for week-ends away and you still get significant time with your child.

Just ask the mediator to contact her and invite her and also ask the mediator if you need to have another MIAM.

Meanwhile - how has communication been between you and your ex during this period? Avoid getting into arguments by text or email - anything in writing can be used against you (eg to say you';re hostile or aggressive or something). Likewise it can also be helpful for evidence if your emails or texts are worded politely and reasonably and hers are hostile. That can help a lot at a later stage in court, and also proves various things and keeps them recorded.

So if you haven't already, the first thing to do is send her a brief email or message along the lines of

"Dear Ex Name (or just Hi)

I'm just writing to ask if we can agree some better arrangements for "child name" to spend regular time with me. The ongoing schedule of 9am Sat to 9am Sunday one week and 9am Sunday to 5pm Sunday the next week appears to have broken down, with four week-ends in the past two months being missed - so I have seen much less of "child name" and don't think this is good for stability of his relationships. I understand that sometimes you might want to go away for a week-end, but in that case, perhaps we could agree alternative times - for example if you're away one week-end I could have "child name" with me overnight during the week and a bit more time the following week-end. Please let me know if we can agree this please.. I hope you're well and look forward to hearing from you".

Ok you might not feel like writing something like that and it's a bit formal but send something like that anyway. It doesn't matter if she agrees or not or if she replies or not. What matters is you have evidence to show you tried to resolve things reasonably and amicably before applying to court (which may well end up having to happen). If you don't need to apply to court - fine, print it out and file it - you might need it in the future.

In these situations it's a case of always building up an evidence file just in case you need it. Keeping records of when you see your child, anything significant you did each time (like visit family, take them to play with friends, go away somewhere, a day at the seaside, or whatever). Keeping all correspondence between you and ex. Keeping copies of any reports or whatever from nursery.

If she ignores you then just start the mediation anyway. If she replies argumentatively or just says no, then just start the mediation anyway. But print out the reply and file it.

Even if you don't use these things as evidence, they can be memory joggers for what happened when if you do need to write something for court at some point.

One night a fortnight isn't really enough for a child that age I agree. One day a week is not too bad but not enough to have a relaxed time with a child who is no longer a baby but a toddler. The routine is good with it being weekly though. I think I did one night and day per week-end until my son was almost four - but I also had one or two midweek nights as well. It did restrict week-ends but if my ex was going away I'd get a make up night. But there is no reason why it shouldn't be every other full week-end, as long as you get at least one midweek night as well.
 
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Just looking for advice on my situation . My son is coming 2 in January . I did an MIAM three months back but asked the mediator to hold fire with a letter to my ex . I was at that point and currently still am getting the following ....

Week 1 - Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am
Week 2 - Sunday 9am - 5pm

Repeats ....

While I understand this is good access for a child that age I have gone a fair few weekends without seeing him in the past two months due to holiday with no time back in return . My ex also is not looking to increase my time . I have told my ex my mum would be picking my son up on a Sunday in November as I'm travelling back from a night put for my 40th , she has refused and says I'm palming him off when in reality it's 2 hours I'm missing. She also says she would not hand him over to my mum .

She's really dictating now so I have contacted the mediator about sending a letter out to her this week . She does not know she's getting this but I have said to her mediation is the best way forward so it maybe won't come as a total surprise. She has said she is going to see her solicitor this week and they will be writing to me . If she refuses mediation can I apply to court ? I'd so how does this process work is it long winded , lots of pages to fill in . Is it something I can start now in anticipation of her refusing to mediate . I remember someone saying it's best to apply first so I want to make sure I do so I'm on the front foot. Any advice in this current situation would be welcome .

Thanks
 
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Did you get the chance to read our responses to your original post? https://dadswithkids.co.uk/threads/mediation-or-court.518/

Did you pursue the possibility of drafting a new Parenting Agreement using the template in parallel with Mediation? https://www.separatedfamilies.info/home/parenting-apart/parenting-agreements/

All you need to prove you have done to apply for a Child Arrangements Order is attend a MIAM (Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting) with a Mediator of your choosing. The ex doesn't need to attend this. You will be provided a Mediators Certificate to go with your C100 application form.
 
Thanks for your replies guys , apologies had no notifications of these for some reason . I will reply now ...
 
Yes it's always viewed favourably if you try and resolve matters out of court. (It's easier on your spirit and bank balance too!)

I take it your current arrangement is part of an informal Parenting Agreement or Plan seeing as you have no Child Arrangements Order issued by the Family Court?

How much detail is in the Parenting Agreement/Plan you currently have in place other than the schedule?

This link takes you to the Parenting Agreement template provided by the DWK's forum and provides really good detail regarding what is worth considering in such a Parenting Agreement/Plan. https://www.separatedfamilies.info/home/parenting-apart/parenting-agreements/

A section of it that may help you solidify yours better is the Management of the Agreement section.

  • Both parents agree to review the effectiveness of this agreement on an annual basis.
  • If either party believes that this agreement is breaking down, they will resolve the issues by communicating them and making arrangements to review the agreement.
  • You will resolve disputes of the workings of the agreement with brief and polite communication.
  • If either party wishes to vary this agreement they must briefly and politely communicate this to the other parent.
  • If variations either party wishes to make cannot be agreed both parties agree to seek and attend mediation to resolve.
Thanks Kyle , I currently don't have a plan or anything in writing as she wouldn't do that . At the drop of a hat she can say she's going away for a weekend and I have to go without seeing him .

Her response when I said "our son needs a good amount of time with both parents and more time with me than once a week" was ..... nah he is OK thanks .

She is pretty childish and I don't see her agreeing to any type of plan but I guess I could raise this in mediation .
 
I merged the two threads so it's easier for people to follow.
 
Thanks Kyle , I currently don't have a plan or anything in writing as she wouldn't do that . At the drop of a hat she can say she's going away for a weekend and I have to go without seeing him .

Her response when I said "our son needs a good amount of time with both parents and more time with me than once a week" was ..... nah he is OK thanks .

She is pretty childish and I don't see her agreeing to any type of plan but I guess I could raise this in mediation .

Well that's not fair on you or the little one. It does sound like there's some maturity missing on her part. But it's not uncommon for women to incorrectly assume they are the universal power in a child's life. Anyway, rant over. Always be the sensible, calm, polite, professional one in this situation. Don't do anything that may come back to bite you.

In the long term, an agreement on parenting will be expected to be reached in the Family Court if you do decide to take things down that road. A Parenting Agreement should form a part of your court papers, something called a Bundle, which I am currently in the process of.

A typical Parenting Agreement should contain a section titled, Holidays and Other Special Times that sets out the conditions for going on holiday and birthdays. It should state that both parents should be able to arrange a holiday with the child to a holiday destination for a defined period. Once this is agreed, neither parent will obstruct the other parent from such arrangements. But both parents agree to provide the other with as much notice as possible. Both parents will agree on a temporary rescheduling of the Parenting Agreement to accommodate booked holidays. Essentially being reasonable and adult-like about things.

If you can't agree on these things in court the court will decide for you. That may not go down too well with her. But at that point she had the opportunity to negotiate with you and didn't take it.

But getting to work on this plan during the mediation process will better solidify your position as dad and hopefully give your feelings some consideration because at the moment they are not and she is disrespecting you.

If you can present a good, clear and fair Parenting Agreement it may be enough to keep things out of court and a resolution can be found during mediation.

https://www.separatedfamilies.info/home/parenting-apart/parenting-agreements/
 
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Has your mediation run out now? A MIAM lasts for 3 months. So even if it was late June, it's now late September - so you'd probably need to have another MIAM anyway if you were thinking about applying to court. Ask the mediator about that.

Ok so the schedule isn't too bad even though it's only one night a week. But you have now had a lot of missed week-ends and presumably she didn't offer any alternative days or make up time - which is not good enough.

Yes try mediation first - the mediator might persuade her this is unreasonable and you could also try asking her for every other full week-end and a midweek overnight instead - so she still gets the opportunity for week-ends away and you still get significant time with your child.

Just ask the mediator to contact her and invite her and also ask the mediator if you need to have another MIAM.

Meanwhile - how has communication been between you and your ex during this period? Avoid getting into arguments by text or email - anything in writing can be used against you (eg to say you';re hostile or aggressive or something). Likewise it can also be helpful for evidence if your emails or texts are worded politely and reasonably and hers are hostile. That can help a lot at a later stage in court, and also proves various things and keeps them recorded.

So if you haven't already, the first thing to do is send her a brief email or message along the lines of

"Dear Ex Name (or just Hi)

I'm just writing to ask if we can agree some better arrangements for "child name" to spend regular time with me. The ongoing schedule of 9am Sat to 9am Sunday one week and 9am Sunday to 5pm Sunday the next week appears to have broken down, with four week-ends in the past two months being missed - so I have seen much less of "child name" and don't think this is good for stability of his relationships. I understand that sometimes you might want to go away for a week-end, but in that case, perhaps we could agree alternative times - for example if you're away one week-end I could have "child name" with me overnight during the week and a bit more time the following week-end. Please let me know if we can agree this please.. I hope you're well and look forward to hearing from you".

Ok you might not feel like writing something like that and it's a bit formal but send something like that anyway. It doesn't matter if she agrees or not or if she replies or not. What matters is you have evidence to show you tried to resolve things reasonably and amicably before applying to court (which may well end up having to happen). If you don't need to apply to court - fine, print it out and file it - you might need it in the future.

In these situations it's a case of always building up an evidence file just in case you need it. Keeping records of when you see your child, anything significant you did each time (like visit family, take them to play with friends, go away somewhere, a day at the seaside, or whatever). Keeping all correspondence between you and ex. Keeping copies of any reports or whatever from nursery.

If she ignores you then just start the mediation anyway. If she replies argumentatively or just says no, then just start the mediation anyway. But print out the reply and file it.

Even if you don't use these things as evidence, they can be memory joggers for what happened when if you do need to write something for court at some point.

One night a fortnight isn't really enough for a child that age I agree. One day a week is not too bad but not enough to have a relaxed time with a child who is no longer a baby but a toddler. The routine is good with it being weekly though. I think I did one night and day per week-end until my son was almost four - but I also had one or two midweek nights as well. It did restrict week-ends but if my ex was going away I'd get a make up night. But there is no reason why it shouldn't be every other full week-end, as long as you get at least one midweek night as well.
Thanks Ash,

The mediator said my MIAM was still valid so she offered me an application to court or to invite my ex for mediation I choose the mediation approach as its sensible and seems less aggressive although she seems to want to get solicitors on board . In reality she is happy with how things are and will drag her heels to delay /prevent any change .

I have ingaged with her through text but haven't got nasty or said anything that could be seen as threatening I've just said she's not been reasonable and put my point across . I have plenty of messages from her that could work against potentially. An example of this is I asked her how he was doing at his new nursery and my ex responded by saying yes great he likes it there . She went on to tell me they send her pictures etc . I asked why she didn't send them on or if I could contact them to get sent the same stuff and she said they wouldn't tk to me . I asked her the name of the nursery and she said she couldn't remember. I have gh. She is just trying g to be awkward .

I was pretty good with logging events dates and screenshotting text messages. I have logged a all the times I've had my son . I will update that in the next few days, just a case of going through my phone .

I'd like the following ideally


Every other weekend Friday 5pm - Sunday 5pm

1 weeknight every week 5pm - 8am (nursery drop off)

2 weeks (not consecutively) that I can take him on holiday a year

Shared access on his birthday

My birthday off with him

Christmas 2022, Christmas day 12pm - Boxing day 5pm

Christmas 2023 Christmas eve 9am - Christmas day 12pm

II christmas 2024 (as 2022)

pattern repeats ......

I also have a Christmas shutdown , which this year for example is from the 23rd of Dec- 3rd of Jan . She also gets similar . I would like to spend of some of that time with him (days between Christmas and New year ) but it's difficult to agree that as the days change each year and where Christmas falls etc .

The way I expect this to go given I know what she's like is that she will receive a mediation invitation (her MIAM ) but she tells me she is going to her solicitors this week ( she thinks the solicitors say is final and she can hide behind hers ) I'm guessing her solicitor will advise her to try to mediate but she won't agree to the above .

Her angle will be that she feels I'm asking for more time but I palm him off . This all stems from me asking her if its OK for my mum to get my son on the sunday morning of the 20th of November as I will be celebrating my 40th birthday the day/evening before and would be travelling back on the Sunday morning so would be 2-3 hours later .

She also is making out my mum and her partner are not fit/safe to look after my son as my mum has apparently got a bad arm and can't lift him and her partner has a heart condition ( this is very rich as her family are big drinkers and although I can't prove anything he will have been left in vulnerable situations before while in there care)

So I fully expect a letter from her solicitors during thd mediation process with some nasty stuff in . I'm unsure whether I can reply myself or seek a solicitor of my own , guess I cross that bridge when I come to it ? Paying 175 an hour for mediation and solicitors fees will certainly mount up .

From a previous comment on here some time ago I understand I will have a better chance if she has to reaxt to my court application rather than the other way around , being on the front foot rather than the back foot I guess.


Due to how she is unwilling to be fair I expect this to go to court and hopefully this will be after Jan 21st as my son will be 2 then and I should have his age more in my favour.whether I use a solicitor or a mckensie friend or just represent myself I'm unsure ? Jumping the gun abit I guess but I do think this will end up in court.
 
So she’s going to see a solicitor to get advice on what she can and can’t do? What you can and can’t do? In other words, getting advice on how to continue to be domineering and obstructive to you? It can’t be all on her terms I’m afraid.

With regards to nurseries and schools, if you have parental responsibility, the nursery/school have a legal responsibility to communicate all things about your child with you. This area forms an important part of a Parenting Agreement too.

By all means keep texts for future reference but don’t go into the court process with a vengeful mind aimed at criticising your ex as the courts don’t like this. You could be seen as the conflict maker and kept at arms length to protect your child from being caught in the middle. The court process is supposed to be child focused. What’s best for them not what’s best for the parents.

There’s every opportunity to negotiate a more robust and fair agreement here through the Mediator. But you could be right. Things will need to go to court. And this is sometimes where things get ugly. Is she likely to avenge your Child Arrangements Order application to the court by stopping your access to your child completely?

The C100 Court Form and application for a Child Arrangements Order is another document that requires completing with due care and attention. This is sometimes the place where cut-off dads pour their souls out, and not for the better. What goes in this application needs composure. Criticisms won’t go down well.

There’s also the matter of lead times for hearings. Once you’ve applied to the court (if you decide to apply) there could be a good 4 month wait for a First Hearing.

All things worth considering as you move forward. But hopefully she comes to her senses and agrees to mediate with an amicable result.
 
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This might just be a side point, but I have not seen what has happened for "make up time" regarding the missed weekends. The four missed weekends must add up to at least 24 hours. If this missing time with you has not been made good, it would be good to agree more than one night with you consecutively. Going into a hearing or parenting plan/mediation with this under your belt would be useful. Proposing a longer weekend with you to allow something relating to extended family would be a good idea. It is a win win:

1) If she says yes, she cannot hold a child cannot be away from me for more than one night position.

2) If she says no, she gives you something unreasonable to justify/support your call for change.
 
So she’s going to see a solicitor to get advice on what she can and can’t do? What you can and can’t do? In other words, getting advice on how to continue to be domineering and obstructive to you? It can’t be all on her terms I’m afraid.

With regards to nurseries and schools, if you have parental responsibility, the nursery/school have a legal responsibility to communicate all things about your child with you. This area forms an important part of a Parenting Agreement too.

By all means keep texts for future reference but don’t go into the court process with a vengeful mind aimed at criticising your ex as the courts don’t like this. You could be seen as the conflict maker and kept at arms length to protect your child from being caught in the middle. The court process is supposed to be child focused. What’s best for them not what’s best for the parents.

There’s every opportunity to negotiate a more robust and fair agreement here through the Mediator. But you could be right. Things will need to go to court. And this is sometimes where things get ugly. Is she likely to avenge your Child Arrangements Order application to the court by stopping your access to your child completely?

The C100 Court Form and application for a Child Arrangements Order is another document that requires completing with due care and attention. This is sometimes the place where cut-off dads pour their souls out, and not for the better. What goes in this application needs composure. Criticisms won’t go down well.

There’s also the matter of lead times for hearings. Once you’ve applied to the court (if you decide to apply) there could be a good 4 month wait for a First Hearing.

All things worth considering as you move forward. But hopefully she comes to her senses and agrees to mediate with an amicable result.
Thanks for your Reply Kyle,

No i certainly wont be bringing up texts and getting into tit for tat type stuff and have tried as much as possible to keep out of ingaging that way over text. A s you say the court will be child focused and that is all that im interested in.
This might just be a side point, but I have not seen what has happened for "make up time" regarding the missed weekends. The four missed weekends must add up to at least 24 hours. If this missing time with you has not been made good, it would be good to agree more than one night with you consecutively. Going into a hearing or parenting plan/mediation with this under your belt would be useful. Proposing a longer weekend with you to allow something relating to extended family would be a good idea. It is a win win:

1) If she says yes, she cannot hold a child cannot be away from me for more than one night position.

2) If she says no, she gives you something unreasonable to justify/support your call for change.
I missed a weekend in the middle of last month so asked to have my son overnight for one weeknight (Pick up at 5pm after work and take back at 9am in the morning to which she agreed . I asked to work from home the following day so i could drop my son back to her . However when i asked if all still ok she said could i bring him back at 8 that evening as he had a haircut at 9 in the morning , so i said i would have drop back to her 8,30. She then kept saying this is a one off only and told me not to play games??? An hour later she said i couldnt have him overnight and that i have to drop him back at 8 that evening . So i questioned that his bedtime is 7 and id have him settled by then , she said bring him back so i took him back at 7 rather than 8 (My decision) as he would be grumpy and tired that last hour so wasnt really fair.

I think she was worried that if i had him overnight in the week then i could do it again (prove that its happened ) and for her that would give me an advantage. When all i wanted was to spend time with my son.

That is my attempt at trying to get more time .
 
Thought I would share my current situation with mediation .

My ex has done an MIAM and agreed to meadiate however my ex has said she can only mediate in a Wednesday and although we both agreed to next weds the 9th of Nov she has moved it back to the 23rd . Its all games and although I'm seething on the inside I politely agree the date with the mediator. I'm unsure if she will put it off again in the next week or so ?

My question is would you let her play the games and be patient or apply for court ?

Also I've heard a few saying on here that after the age of 2 I would be initialled to a full schedule

Every other weekend (2 nights )

1 night in the week


Holidays etc .


However I don't think I will get her to agree to that in mediation and also if I ask for that would that sound demanding ?


If the above can be gained in court Settling for anything less in mediation wouldn't sound right?


I know everyones situation is different but I'm Not really sure how to play it , any advice would be welcome .
 
Get signed off and get your C100 application in. Yes, there's game playing, and yes, imo, in this instance, mediation is pointless.

And no, you are not being demanding nor unreasonable. However, to show your cards in mediation seems full of jeopardy.

Take care, SS.
 
You've had your MIAM. You've got the Mediators certificate required to kick-start the C100 application.

I remember my first session being delayed due to ex having a "hospital appointment." It was also at the other end of the month from the initial date and very frustrating.

I submitted my C100 anyway. Just as well as at the mediation session she played the usual games. So it achieved nothing. The next day she received the court notice with the first hearing date. I would of given anything to be a fly on the wall when she opened that.
 
Agree. Submit the C100. She is messing about and has delayed mediation unreasonably - and will probably use that time to put her own application in. Your son will be 2 very soon - you just ask for the full schedule to start from x date (his 2nd birthday) and for xyz schedule meanwhile, building up to it.

I can help with your wording for 5b if you like :-)
 
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