I just need advice

[dpatz]

I recently decided to apply for maintenance as my child is now over 6 years old and I got sick of knowing he was on exotic holidays with his wife (I will be 100% truthful and tell you, I only know this as my friends snooped). He has never contributed at all and seen my daughter only once ( I know it may be controversial to call her MY daughter but I feel it's fair given he hasn't been involved). I gave him many opportunities to see her and he was never interested and actually blocked me on every means of communication. I tried, I honestly did. I want some input from other dads out there to know if I am being unreasonable or not.
I applied recently when my daughter was 6 having had no contributions at all previously. He runs a business with his wife and he has said he makes 12k a year, yet has been on at least 4 exotic holidays this year, has a mortgage and a car. Surely that isn't right? I am just confused/disappointed for my daughter. I dont know how anyone could even live off 12k a year in these times?
Just looking for some input from fathers out there and will answer any follow up questions honestly.
And I just want to add, I wanted him involved. I myself grew up without a father and it HURT! I never wanted that for my daughter and would have done anything for him to have had some involvement

 

[Ash]

I'm a little confused there. Whose wife? Obviously not your 6 year old's wife Are you a Mother or a Father to the child?

 

[capa]

I'm guessing dpatz is the ex and mother and referencing her ex who's now got a new wife.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

If he isn't interested in his child then you can't force him. Applying for CMS isn't going to endear him to the idea either. Is there a reason he doesn't want to be involved ? Have you asked ?

 

[Ash]

You’re within yore rights to apply for CMS for your daughter. None of us know what someone else’s finances are. He may just have a wealthy wife and that would be her money rather than his - people are allowed to have separate finances.

Are you ok with him not seeing his daughter? Maybe life is easier than having a schedule of her coming and going. I think it takes some thinking about because if he has to pay CMS he might decide he wants to see his daughter if he’s having to pay.

I agree with you though -he should be involved with his daughter and be there for her.

I think some Dads want to start fresh and not want the hassle - depending on the circumstances. Some are afraid of court cases and bankruptcy if they get emotionally involved.

 

[capa]

I think some Dads want to start fresh and not want the hassle - depending on the circumstances. Some are afraid of court cases and bankruptcy if they get emotionally involved.

I agree, myself I want fresh start but want my son involved in that, however if the child doesn't want to be involved I think it's wrong to not want to pay CMS, cos that's exactly what I will be doing,cos then in time ypu can say,I fought I paid I missed you,still my flesh and blood regardless of which life path has been taken

 

[Resolute]

And I just want to add, I wanted him involved.

Do you still want him involved?

If he is doing something dodgy on the finances you can get to the bottom of that through CMS. It will take mandatory reconsiderations, investigations, stress, delay... I promise you from experience, you do not want to try and get CMS to do anything. The organisation is a total shambles.

Have you thought of something like this:

Dear Ex,

You will have seen my CMS application. Sorry it came out of the blue. I really wasn't sure how else to go about it with the separation between us.

We still have one very important thing in common - [insert name of child].

If you want to start being an involved father, that would be fantastic. We can discuss the right way to make that happen and I will facilitate your involvement. Even if you are not ready, it would be great if you got information from the school and stayed in touch with his progress.

I'm afraid that either way, we do need you to start contributing to [name of child]'s upbringing. Protracted CMS processes would only cause stress for us both. We could agree an informal arrangement instead of going through the rigmarole. Please propose a monthly amount you believe is fair. I'm happy to share receipts for what I spend it on and show you how the contribution you make benefits our child.

Please reply to let me know what you think and how you are feeling about things. I hope and believe we can find an amicable way forwards.

Yours...

 

[Resolute]

P.s. I grew up with a step father, he has been my 'dad' since before I was a year old. My biological father was useless - a self-obsessed, unreliable, alcoholic. He made contact a few times and let me down each time. I left the door open to him, he never took the opportunity. Three years ago he died. I declined the invitation to his funeral.

All the same, I am his son.

To me, the sense in which I am my 'dad's' son is much more important.

I do not presume to correct you using the phrase "my child". But, it is not something my heart or head can agree with. People are flawed, some tragically so. They are still parents though, and parents are important.

 

[mainstay92]

Hi, I would ask the father for maintenance and ask if he would like a relationship with his child too.. if he declines both, then go through Cms. Even if he is only declaring 12k I presume he will still pay some sort of maintenance. I know your probably feeling hurt for your daughter seeing him on holidays and not paying out but that's up to him at the end of the day. When she grows up she will see who looked after her. His loss if he doesn't want to be in her life. I personally wouldn't go down the route to cause trouble by having them looking into his finances.

 

[Peanut 21]

So is this a mother asking advice?
If so why are you asking on a site for dad's?
It's not that woman again is it? Lol

 

[Resolute]

So is this a mother asking advice?
If so why are you asking on a site for dad's?
It's not that woman again is it? Lol

1. Yes
2. To discover their faults/weaknesses?
3. I was reminded of her as well - hopefully not!

 

[Ash]

I think Mainstay's suggestion is good, and Resolute's. Maybe just send him a short friendly email saying you're just getting in touch because you'd like to ask for his support by way of some Child Maintenance for his daughter, and also to say you think it would be great if he and your daughter could spend some time together regularly, after a gradual introduction. ie try the informal route first.

However, would you really want that? I thought you sounded angry and resentful about him and his wife and you may not handle the idea of your daughter having fun times with them, doing things you can't afford. I think a lot of that depends on how amicable things can be. Do you think you could be amicable with him and his wife, for your daughter's sake? It can be hard if people feel hurt after a relationship ends but many people manage to put aside personal feelings from the relationship ending and focus on putting their kids first.

Try offering an Olive branch.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

I think Mainstay's suggestion is good, and Resolute's. Maybe just send him a short friendly email saying you're just getting in touch because you'd like to ask for his support by way of some Child Maintenance for his daughter, and also to say you think it would be great if he and your daughter could spend some time together regularly, after a gradual introduction. ie try the informal route first.

However, would you really want that? I thought you sounded angry and resentful about him and his wife and you may not handle the idea of your daughter having fun times with them, doing things you can't afford. I think a lot of that depends on how amicable things can be. Do you think you could be amicable with him and his wife, for your daughter's sake? It can be hard if people feel hurt after a relationship ends but many people manage to put aside personal feelings from the relationship ending and focus on putting their kids first.

Try offering an Olive branch.

and, "be a dad or I go to the CMS" isn't an olive branch

 

[dpatz]

Hi,

I am sorry if I offended anyone by posting on here, I just wanted a male perspective on the matter. I have seen men have to fight to see their children and go through hell and think its awful. I would always back for both parents to be involved. But I have realised this probably isn't the best place to be, I respect you all having your own space to chat. So will delete asap.
A few things I will clarify...
He has seen daughter once when she was 10 months old.
There has been no contact for at least 5 years.
As I said I wanted him involved - he chose not to be!
I would never be resentful for my daughter having fun times with others.
I am not sure why the assumption would be that he could afford to do fun things with her and I can't
I am also not resentful about him and his wife, I did not want to be with him. It was a very brief thing and I think that may be why he doesn't want to be involved.
The only way I may be able to contact him would be by written letter to his business address, so that is a possibility. I probably would be apprehensive if he did want to suddenly be involved as daughter doesn't know him so it would have to be a very gradual process for my daughters protection.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Hi,

I am sorry if I offended anyone by posting on here, I just wanted a male perspective on the matter. I have seen men have to fight to see their children and go through hell and think its awful. I would always back for both parents to be involved. But I have realised this probably isn't the best place to be, I respect you all having your own space to chat. So will delete asap.
A few things I will clarify...
He has seen daughter once when she was 10 months old.
There has been no contact for at least 5 years.
As I said I wanted him involved - he chose not to be!
I would never be resentful for my daughter having fun times with others.
I am not sure why the assumption would be that he could afford to do fun things with her and I can't
I am also not resentful about him and his wife, I did not want to be with him. It was a very brief thing and I think that may be why he doesn't want to be involved.
The only way I may be able to contact him would be by written letter to his business address, so that is a possibility. I probably would be apprehensive if he did want to suddenly be involved as daughter doesn't know him so it would have to be a very gradual process for my daughters protection.

It sounds like he isn't interested and for all the will in the world you probably won't get him to start a relationship with his daughter after missing her early formative years. It would take lot of time with him before any bond would be established. We don't know why he has chosen not to, but that doesnt make him a bad person, he just may feel he has nothing to offer.

 

[Resolute]

No offence caused, no need to apologise - as far as I'm concerned.

You wanted a male perspective, I think we gave you that. The softly, softly approach does not rob you of opportunity to be hard-nosed in the future. However, going in hard will likely destroy any chance of an easy solution. My suggestion was not about doing right by your ex, it was pure pragmatism. Why not start with the path of least resistance?

At the start you said you will answer questions honestly. Quite a few have been put to you.

If you hold your ex in contempt and would no longer want him involved, you can just say that.

It would be important to know as this would limit moves available to you.

 

[Ash]

Hi,

I am sorry if I offended anyone by posting on here, I just wanted a male perspective on the matter. I have seen men have to fight to see their children and go through hell and think its awful. I would always back for both parents to be involved. But I have realised this probably isn't the best place to be, I respect you all having your own space to chat. So will delete asap.
A few things I will clarify...
He has seen daughter once when she was 10 months old.
There has been no contact for at least 5 years.
As I said I wanted him involved - he chose not to be!
I would never be resentful for my daughter having fun times with others.
I am not sure why the assumption would be that he could afford to do fun things with her and I can't
I am also not resentful about him and his wife, I did not want to be with him. It was a very brief thing and I think that may be why he doesn't want to be involved.
The only way I may be able to contact him would be by written letter to his business address, so that is a possibility. I probably would be apprehensive if he did want to suddenly be involved as daughter doesn't know him so it would have to be a very gradual process for my daughters protection.

I don't think you have offended anyone. Some Dads on here have had very bad experiences with ex's so we can understandably be a bit suspicious! Nothing personal.

I apologise if it offended you to suggest you couldn't do fun things with her. I maybe misinterpreted this bit

I got sick of knowing he was on exotic holidays with his wife

If you contact the CMS and he actually is only on £12,000 a year, (gross as opposed to net) then what you receive in CM would be in the region of £119 a month.

However I would think carefully because that amount gets reduced depending on the number of nights your daughter spends with him. If he feels resentful about being asked to pay it, then he might decide he wants to see your daughter regularly, for the wrong reasons - ie just to reduce the CMS payment - which might not be good for your daughter either, if he wasn't actually interested in being a Dad.

The whole Child Maintenance system is an absolute mess and messes up peoples lives on both sides sometimes. In that kind of scenario, the child becomes a financial football - which is not a good situation for a child.

Although it's an "entitlement" and intended to help support a child growing up, it could be better to focus on your own life, how you can improve things and maybe meet a partner who creates a good life for you and your child.

I could never have walked away from my child (unexpected pregnancy with someone I hadn't known long) because I would always have worried if he was ok, and I was happy to pay child support voluntarily as well, and be involved.

 

[dpatz]

No offence caused, no need to apologise - as far as I'm concerned.

You wanted a male perspective, I think we gave you that. The softly, softly approach does not rob you of opportunity to be hard-nosed in the future. However, going in hard will likely destroy any chance of an easy solution. My suggestion was not about doing right by your ex, it was pure pragmatism. Why not start with the path of least resistance?

At the start you said you will answer questions honestly. Quite a few have been put to you.

If you hold your ex in contempt and would no longer want him involved, you can just say that.

It would be important to know as this would limit moves available to you.

Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it.
I may make an attempt to contact via written letter as its my only option.
I think I answered everything that was put to me, but apologies if I missed something.
Would it be easier and better for me if he wasn't involved at all? Absolutely.
However it's about my daughter and she always comes first, I always feel sad she doesn't have a relationship with him and if he wanted to and my daughter was happy then I would be very pleased for her to have a relationship with him and his family.

 

[dpatz]

Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it.
I may make an attempt to contact via written letter as its my only option.
I think I answered everything that was put to me, but apologies if I missed something.
Would it be easier and better for me if he wasn't involved at all? Absolutely.
However it's about my daughter and she always comes first, I always feel sad she doesn't have a relationship with him and if he wanted to and my daughter was happy then I would be very pleased for her to have a relationship with him and his family.

Sorry just to add, although I encouraged him to have a relationship with her. I was never forceful or had any expectations of him. I fully understood that given that it was an unexpected pregnancy he may not have wanted to be involved

 

[Ash]

Also see my post above About possible outcomes.