Had an enforcement hearing today. My son wants no contact with me. I went to the court to enforce the current court order. It was 50/50. The guardian thinks there has been an element of alienation. But her decision is that my son is 13 years old and he is adamant that he wants no contact with me. He has accused me of hitting him with a belt, name calling. All fabrication. Judge made an order that my son lives with mom but can see his dad if he wants. Judge said you cannot force a 13 year old to see his dad. The judge would not entertain a finding of facts hearing. So I have lost my son now. All this was because I set him boundaries. At his mom he does whatever he wants. Gutted is an understatement.
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Hearing Today
- Thread starter ste
- Start date
Gutted. Not going to see him now for a good few years.
Gutted for you - Great things should happen to the people who care so much
Judge told me even if he ordered that my son is to have counselling he can't force him to participate. Left feeling empty. A part of me died today. 13 years of hell. Now my son has to grow up with no dad. Now the CMS will be on my back. This was money motivated. Self represented today as I thought it would go to a fact finding hearing. Then i could get a barrister. The judge said even if he ordered this he would still say no contact. He followed what the guardian recommended. Just lost at the moment. Said this before, my son threatened to take a knife to school and kill someone then himself. Police had to bring him to my house as he was going to glass his mom in the face. Threatened suicide. Unfortunately, I can see him doing something serious now. Just hurts that I can't help him anymore. Going to take a while to get over this.
You could appeal. You'd get a different, more senior Judge. Ideally you'd also want an ISW report to contradict the Guardian and show the child's wishes have been manipulated. The difficulty is his age. It's lazy of them to say they can't make a 12 year old do something. If you can prove the Mother is making him say things then it might be a different view - but you'd need an ISW report for that and that costs money.
Thanks Ash. I think I have to walk away now. The guardians report is clear. All she recommended was I can send a Christmas and Birthday card. I wish I had representation today but I really felt it would go to a final hearing. The court ordered the guardians position statement to be filed 14 days prior to the hearing. I received it at 17:00 the day before the hearing. Had no time to prepare. The judge said he thought I was making the right decision. I told him it was his decision I don't see my son. Going to be so hard not being in my sons life. To top it all off my ex partner laughed all the way out of the court. But she already emailed me a while back stating that my son was out of control at her house. Now he will get a whole lot worse because she always used the threat of me to my son me by saying if you do that I will tell your dad. Well my son now knows that dad won't be in his life anymore. I really do fear what he will do now. The system is a joke. 6 years ago my ex accused me of rape. I got NFA. When the guardian went to see my son he told her that I had raped his mom. The guardian stated that my son was clear that his mom had told him this. What more evidence do they need that my son has been alienated.
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I'm so, so sorry to hear this.
I don't even know how to respond other than to wish both you and your son a speedy conclusion.
Try and take some time to heal and maybe circumstances will change sooner than you fear.
I don't even know how to respond other than to wish both you and your son a speedy conclusion.
Try and take some time to heal and maybe circumstances will change sooner than you fear.
I am so sorry to read your post. When parents fall out of love whether mutually or not I think it is very shortsighted to bring the children into the breakdown. There simply is no thought about how this will affect them in the long term .If I was in your shoes I would do all i can to be there for my child. Attend school activities, parent assessments whether on line or face to face. Keep intouch via social media. Does your son play online games? Meet him in his forum and play with him.ultimately children do thrive with boundaries. However if his mother is negative about you it makes it difficult. However, it sounds like your son is angry. I am surprised with the outcome of the hearing.I would also appeal as soon as you can.. In my case the Courts were very supportive that both me and my wife have shared care of our child . My wife tried to get full live in care with me seeing our child once a fortnight in a supervised environment.She claimed I was an alcoholic and I had to give hair strand test and blood test to support my argument that i was not. I am sure you son will will look at the bigger picture as he gets older. In the meatime you can only support him from a distance but make sure iti s constant and do persevere. Set up a savings account as well for when he gets older. Set up a planm for yourself. First thing is to apply to appeal and give reasons and ensure you have proper evidence to support your arguments. Refer to any legal inaccuracies/mistakes as well. Good luck!
So the Guardian said Christmas and Birthday cards, but the Judge said the order would say he could see you if he wants. He is 13 and appealing could take a long time with ISW reports etc.
So don't see it as walking away. Instead, just always be available in case he decides to come. Maybe just accept that it is up to him now. Things will change. Now the court case is over, your ex won't bother to keep trying to alienate him - she's won her battle so there's no more fight. He may start to get his head clearer and think for himself. And he may wonder about you and miss you.
In addition to that, 13 is a really funny age - they are hormonal. As I mentioned earlier, by 15 he will be very different. What has happened in some cases is, once it's all over, the ex actually offers you to have him sometimes - she might not be able to handle him. Or she might fall out with him.
So as mentioned above - keep an online presence. Don't bemoan in it though - post things about the good, interesting things you're doing in life. Start a new project, join a new club and post about new friends, hobbies, interests. Sound upbeat and cheerful and even jokey.
Because your son will probably look you up sometimes - and he'll see someone very different to the picture your ex has painted, and may decide to get in contact with you.
Uncertainty is not nice. I thought I'd lost my son when he was 14 - not only was the ex keeping him away and taking him away a lot but he had aligned with his family there. Once he realised he was hardly seeing me though he changed. Especially by 15. He ended up moving here eventually.
He has probably been under huge pressure from the ex throughout this process - threats, promises and all sorts. To agree with her. Threaten to take a 13 year old's phone away and they'll do anything! But he will start to think more and may feel resentful at what she has done - to him, if not to you.
He will be getting more interested in friends than parents over the next couple of years.
So rather than seeing that you've lost your son, just think of it that he is away for a while. I know that might not help much, but teenagers can cause a lot of headaches - focus on building something new and new achievements in your own life and he might come to you of his own accord.
He has been caught in the middle, and now he isn't. So it'll be a relief for him. He maybe genuinely did feel he didn't want to see you, just to take the pressure off from being caught in the middle. Once that pressure is off things could be different.
Don't expect anything, but don't give up hope either. You know he's out there and he knows you're out there. He's not a little boy any more.
Does he have any other family at your ex's? Half siblings etc? He may well get sick of her. She will trip up probably at some point and he'll see some things were lies.
But he will want to spend most of his time with friends as well.
It's hard when there is uncertainty as to what will happen - so you just live every day and keep positive that things will work out well in the end - however that happens.
You will have shared memories - he will have those too - they will come to him now and then. Don't give up hope. But do get on with life and start new things.
So don't see it as walking away. Instead, just always be available in case he decides to come. Maybe just accept that it is up to him now. Things will change. Now the court case is over, your ex won't bother to keep trying to alienate him - she's won her battle so there's no more fight. He may start to get his head clearer and think for himself. And he may wonder about you and miss you.
In addition to that, 13 is a really funny age - they are hormonal. As I mentioned earlier, by 15 he will be very different. What has happened in some cases is, once it's all over, the ex actually offers you to have him sometimes - she might not be able to handle him. Or she might fall out with him.
So as mentioned above - keep an online presence. Don't bemoan in it though - post things about the good, interesting things you're doing in life. Start a new project, join a new club and post about new friends, hobbies, interests. Sound upbeat and cheerful and even jokey.
Because your son will probably look you up sometimes - and he'll see someone very different to the picture your ex has painted, and may decide to get in contact with you.
Uncertainty is not nice. I thought I'd lost my son when he was 14 - not only was the ex keeping him away and taking him away a lot but he had aligned with his family there. Once he realised he was hardly seeing me though he changed. Especially by 15. He ended up moving here eventually.
He has probably been under huge pressure from the ex throughout this process - threats, promises and all sorts. To agree with her. Threaten to take a 13 year old's phone away and they'll do anything! But he will start to think more and may feel resentful at what she has done - to him, if not to you.
He will be getting more interested in friends than parents over the next couple of years.
So rather than seeing that you've lost your son, just think of it that he is away for a while. I know that might not help much, but teenagers can cause a lot of headaches - focus on building something new and new achievements in your own life and he might come to you of his own accord.
He has been caught in the middle, and now he isn't. So it'll be a relief for him. He maybe genuinely did feel he didn't want to see you, just to take the pressure off from being caught in the middle. Once that pressure is off things could be different.
Don't expect anything, but don't give up hope either. You know he's out there and he knows you're out there. He's not a little boy any more.
Does he have any other family at your ex's? Half siblings etc? He may well get sick of her. She will trip up probably at some point and he'll see some things were lies.
But he will want to spend most of his time with friends as well.
It's hard when there is uncertainty as to what will happen - so you just live every day and keep positive that things will work out well in the end - however that happens.
You will have shared memories - he will have those too - they will come to him now and then. Don't give up hope. But do get on with life and start new things.
Yes. He does have a half sister. They do not get on. This situation has been going on for 13 years. Each time my ex gets a new partner, it got worse. My sons half sisters dad committed suicide last year because she got with her new partner. The current partner came on the scene and then my son did not want to see me.
This new partner even phoned me up before this current situation saying my son is out of control. My ex emailed me asking for help saying my son is out of control. My son told me this new partner was aggressive and many threats were made to my son. But now my son says this partner is great and he hates me.
I agree, I need to concentrate on myself now. I gave it my best shot. I treated my son with so much respect and love. I can honestly say I tried my best. It will be hard if my son came back on the scene because he has told so many lies about me and made some serious allegstions about me..
I do feel my son will do something serious in the near future but I have to tell myself that it is out of my control now. He has to find his own way in life. There have been some significant events happening with my son, which was scary.Throughout the court case it seems they were not interested. I begged them to get my son help but it fell on deaf ears.
My ex has always blamed me for my son's behaviour. I have not seen him for 8 months and his behaviour at school has got worse as the school had to do a report for this case. The school have also cut me out my son's life for the last 8 months and I have no idea how he is doing academically.
I was the only one who could control my son's behaviour but i believe that was my downfall. I had boundaries at my house and he was a well behaved and likeable young lad. At his mom's there are no boundaries. I do feel that is why he has made this choice.
My ex was kissing her partner and laughing at me outside the court but I just thought to myself, now you have to deal with everything. My ex has used my name to try and get my son's behaviour under control. If he did anything wrong she told him he would have to live with me. Now, my son knows he is free to behave exactly as he wants as he knows now I am off the scene.
The last couple of days is the first time where I have felt relief now that this is all over. I can now start to rebuild my life and think about myself for a change as I have always put my son first. I do believe that I will not see my son again but that was his choice. I will always love him but as I said previously it will be very hard to trust him again due to the lies he has told about me.
This new partner even phoned me up before this current situation saying my son is out of control. My ex emailed me asking for help saying my son is out of control. My son told me this new partner was aggressive and many threats were made to my son. But now my son says this partner is great and he hates me.
I agree, I need to concentrate on myself now. I gave it my best shot. I treated my son with so much respect and love. I can honestly say I tried my best. It will be hard if my son came back on the scene because he has told so many lies about me and made some serious allegstions about me..
I do feel my son will do something serious in the near future but I have to tell myself that it is out of my control now. He has to find his own way in life. There have been some significant events happening with my son, which was scary.Throughout the court case it seems they were not interested. I begged them to get my son help but it fell on deaf ears.
My ex has always blamed me for my son's behaviour. I have not seen him for 8 months and his behaviour at school has got worse as the school had to do a report for this case. The school have also cut me out my son's life for the last 8 months and I have no idea how he is doing academically.
I was the only one who could control my son's behaviour but i believe that was my downfall. I had boundaries at my house and he was a well behaved and likeable young lad. At his mom's there are no boundaries. I do feel that is why he has made this choice.
My ex was kissing her partner and laughing at me outside the court but I just thought to myself, now you have to deal with everything. My ex has used my name to try and get my son's behaviour under control. If he did anything wrong she told him he would have to live with me. Now, my son knows he is free to behave exactly as he wants as he knows now I am off the scene.
The last couple of days is the first time where I have felt relief now that this is all over. I can now start to rebuild my life and think about myself for a change as I have always put my son first. I do believe that I will not see my son again but that was his choice. I will always love him but as I said previously it will be very hard to trust him again due to the lies he has told about me.
This so so sad to read. But glad you are being more proactive as peanut says. We have little choice and that’s exactly what they want . It’s so sad that want you in the gutter .. you cannot let that happen for your sons sake and a big fat F U to the one that wants it. ..
I know where you are . If you read my posts although the hammer hasn’t dropped it’s likely I may lose one of mine because of age.
I have a chance but reality is forced contact could backfire. I do have an expert report and a barrister who believes in me and will fight till the death but it’s taken 2 years !
As ash said for you to go down this path could take so long he will be even older and as I feel they are entrenched at this age and actually don’t care much for parents ! … so tough.
Please as hard as it is forgive your son and believe me I know how it feels. I’ve had the same lies etc said about me . We must forgive them and try to understand. The phycologists are clear about why they do this and it truly isn’t their fault .. let’s hope he will see the light and again as Ash said and for me too I’ll be standing tall and ready with my arms open. I will not fall. I will not buckle. I will not get angry. I will not get bitter … I’m gonna become stronger …. And wait. …. Good luck fellow dad and respect for what you have done so far ! Your son will know it as bizzarely the rejection he is showing cements he know you fought !!!!!
I know where you are . If you read my posts although the hammer hasn’t dropped it’s likely I may lose one of mine because of age.
I have a chance but reality is forced contact could backfire. I do have an expert report and a barrister who believes in me and will fight till the death but it’s taken 2 years !
As ash said for you to go down this path could take so long he will be even older and as I feel they are entrenched at this age and actually don’t care much for parents ! … so tough.
Please as hard as it is forgive your son and believe me I know how it feels. I’ve had the same lies etc said about me . We must forgive them and try to understand. The phycologists are clear about why they do this and it truly isn’t their fault .. let’s hope he will see the light and again as Ash said and for me too I’ll be standing tall and ready with my arms open. I will not fall. I will not buckle. I will not get angry. I will not get bitter … I’m gonna become stronger …. And wait. …. Good luck fellow dad and respect for what you have done so far ! Your son will know it as bizzarely the rejection he is showing cements he know you fought !!!!!
Never ever blame your son for anything he has said. He has been in an intolerable position and not a free agent - and neither is he an adult. What you need to keep in mind is - your ex has used your son as a weapon - to get to you. How do you think your son feels about that? Being used by one parent to hurt the other? What he needs - as and when you see him - and even if you don't - is to know that you understand. This is what strengthened my relationship with my son. He knew that I knew that it wasn't really him and that he was in a horrible situation being forced to say and do various things. He clung on to the fact that I didn't reject him for that and that I was perfectly normal with him. Yes I did have the odd moment of thinking - the little xxxxx how could he say that?! Thankfully my partner had a more objective view - less close to it.
The whole point about what the ex was doing was to get him to reject you and you to reject him. If you feel negative towards him she has done her job well. Don't fall into that trap. So yes, more than forgive him - accept that this was not the child that said this but something he was either forced into or he was not himself (ie an alienated child is almost like the child has been invaded by an alter ego). The real child is still there inside him - the one you know and love.
He is part child, part man at the moment - a transitionary age. His critical thinking will improve once the pressure is off.
I have to say though, that trying to enforce boundaries with a teenager doesn't work sometimes! They are pushing to be independent - it's pre-programmed! So as long as he's not taking drugs and staying out till midnight, you really have to let go a bit. I found that very hard. Conversation has to change as well. You can't just say no - you have to have a man to man talk, reasoning your points so it's an intellectual discussion.
Just to bear in mind as and when he gets to see you. At 14 he could run away from home and no one could force him to go back - if he came to you. That may still happen.
He will not be happy with this outcome either. But the important thing to remember is - he is/was not a free agent - he probably doesn't even know what his wishes and feelings are he'll be so pressured and mixed up. So never blame him. Leave it behind. And remember the child he was when he was with you.
These kids in these situations often behave completely differently with each parent. Like two different kids. They have learned how to keep each parent onside - because they have an inbuilt need for self protection - because someone has to feed them and keep a roof over their heads. He wasn't in a position to stand up to his Mother. One day he might be. But he will have enough guilt as it is. So no blame. And if and when you do see him - tell him - none of any of all that is your fault. Becauase it isn't - it's not his fault he was born to parents who separated and ended up in war (whoever started the war).
If things aren't great for him there he may well leave and come to you. But not if he is scared you might reject him. I don't know how you would get that across now. But he knows you tried and went through that court case to try and see him. So yes send the birthday and Christmas cards and send positive messages in them. Eg - the door is always open if you ever want to see me.
The difficulty could be making sure he gets them.
The whole point about what the ex was doing was to get him to reject you and you to reject him. If you feel negative towards him she has done her job well. Don't fall into that trap. So yes, more than forgive him - accept that this was not the child that said this but something he was either forced into or he was not himself (ie an alienated child is almost like the child has been invaded by an alter ego). The real child is still there inside him - the one you know and love.
He is part child, part man at the moment - a transitionary age. His critical thinking will improve once the pressure is off.
I have to say though, that trying to enforce boundaries with a teenager doesn't work sometimes! They are pushing to be independent - it's pre-programmed! So as long as he's not taking drugs and staying out till midnight, you really have to let go a bit. I found that very hard. Conversation has to change as well. You can't just say no - you have to have a man to man talk, reasoning your points so it's an intellectual discussion.
Just to bear in mind as and when he gets to see you. At 14 he could run away from home and no one could force him to go back - if he came to you. That may still happen.
He will not be happy with this outcome either. But the important thing to remember is - he is/was not a free agent - he probably doesn't even know what his wishes and feelings are he'll be so pressured and mixed up. So never blame him. Leave it behind. And remember the child he was when he was with you.
These kids in these situations often behave completely differently with each parent. Like two different kids. They have learned how to keep each parent onside - because they have an inbuilt need for self protection - because someone has to feed them and keep a roof over their heads. He wasn't in a position to stand up to his Mother. One day he might be. But he will have enough guilt as it is. So no blame. And if and when you do see him - tell him - none of any of all that is your fault. Becauase it isn't - it's not his fault he was born to parents who separated and ended up in war (whoever started the war).
If things aren't great for him there he may well leave and come to you. But not if he is scared you might reject him. I don't know how you would get that across now. But he knows you tried and went through that court case to try and see him. So yes send the birthday and Christmas cards and send positive messages in them. Eg - the door is always open if you ever want to see me.
The difficulty could be making sure he gets them.
My son will never get those cards, i already know that. I agree with a lot of what you say but the judge has enabled my son to have complete control over everyone. If he does not get what he wants from his mom or she does something he does not like my son is able to contact me and then he can come to my home. Then if he came here and he did not like something he would just go back to his mom. That is not right. I want no part of that.
His behaviour is off the scale at school. He is a dangerous child. Threats of knife crime, threats of glassing his mom. Maybe I am being selfish but I have to heal from this. I have never put myself first.
I am relieved that when his behaviour does continue to spiral out of control then it will be others to sort it out. But I warned everyone of what I believe is going to happen. When he does does do something, I hope all the professional bodies will be investigated.
Can you believe the guardian never even investigated any issues except my son's refusal to see me. It is so hard to process when you lose a child. It will take a long time for me to recover.
His behaviour is off the scale at school. He is a dangerous child. Threats of knife crime, threats of glassing his mom. Maybe I am being selfish but I have to heal from this. I have never put myself first.
I am relieved that when his behaviour does continue to spiral out of control then it will be others to sort it out. But I warned everyone of what I believe is going to happen. When he does does do something, I hope all the professional bodies will be investigated.
Can you believe the guardian never even investigated any issues except my son's refusal to see me. It is so hard to process when you lose a child. It will take a long time for me to recover.
I believe deep down you forgive your son but I understand the feelings of anger and disappointment.
It seems like the professionals involved are turning a blind eye to your sons violent issues and it's easy to use you as an excuse for his bad behaviour. That's a head f**k in itself.
This is why I think this forum is so important. Nobody knows you so you can vent and say things you couldn't tell friends of family.
I think it's normal for a rejected parent to feel resentment towards their child sometimes. It's not rational but the whole alienation thing is a mad situation that leaves people feeling confused and upset.
Spend time getting your head clear and getting your life back on track. You're no good to anyone if you're falling apart yourself.
It seems like the professionals involved are turning a blind eye to your sons violent issues and it's easy to use you as an excuse for his bad behaviour. That's a head f**k in itself.
This is why I think this forum is so important. Nobody knows you so you can vent and say things you couldn't tell friends of family.
I think it's normal for a rejected parent to feel resentment towards their child sometimes. It's not rational but the whole alienation thing is a mad situation that leaves people feeling confused and upset.
Spend time getting your head clear and getting your life back on track. You're no good to anyone if you're falling apart yourself.