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First Hearing Dispute Resolution Appointment

Kyle

Kyle

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This morning I attended my FHDRA.

All my dealings with CAFCASS and the court leading up to this has been quite positive.

After listening to CAFCASS present their Welfare Checklist findings the magistrate was supportive of my Child Arrangements Order.

After 30 minutes of very positive dialogue, the magistrate went around those in attendance and asked if they were happy that I could spend every other weekend with my son and an order could be made.

Everyone agreed...that was until they got to my ex.

She began to shout at the court that I used to beat my son black and blue and kick him when he was naughty!!!

Needless to say, everyone in attendance was speechless. Least of all me! The magistrate was unimpressed to put it mildly and queried how these allegations could possibly stand up following the closure of a Child Protection Plan by the local authorities in 2018 with no mention of me beating my own child or CAFCASS completing their Welfare Checks and returning to the Family Court with a glowing assessment of me as a person.

But of course this meant that the court had no choice but to instruct CAFCASS to investigate this latest allegation and set a FFH for September.

My heart obviously sank as I knew that in cases where domestic violence is involved there's no chance of seeing my boy again but the court granted me contact centre visits and a FaceTime call every Monday Evening.

My ex tried to protest and shouted at the magistrate who proceeded to advise her to pipe down or it won't end well for you!

So my head and heart are mixture of continued torment and elation. I was so close to it all being over but in some way's I could benefit from this and it will save me the trouble of taking things down the physiological disorder route as I feel my ex is going to do all the work for me.
 
Sorry to hear you nearly had this sorted and then screwball allegations have kicked things down the road.

The frustrating thing is there will be no consequence for her doing this.
 
Thank's Roblox. I've come this far. I will ride it out until it's in a final hearing no matter how long that takes.

It's really been nothing but consequences and bad karma for her since she started all this. She has lost the freedom of only having her son 4 days out of 7 to do what she liked. She now gets no break at all. She has lost the money I was giving her directly by insisting on a CMS Deduction of Earnings Order that determined she got less.

Now she's going to force CAFCASS to pick at an old wound which will shine a spotlight on her and look back at a time when she was reported to Social Services by the Health Visitor over concerns that my son was being subjected to neglect and appeared with bruises which where attributed to a lack of supervision by the social worker.

She's now going to try and use that incident and claim that it was caused by me!

The social workers report attributed it to when my son was in her care. Not mine. And that's what CAFCASS have already uncovered.

She has no case at all. She's just making herself look like the unstable person she is.
 
I have my FHDRA on the 13th , however my ex has made further allegations now ffs , nothing on the c100 or c1a . I have no chance of interim contact .

The court system is fucked , I can’t believe you nearly got your contact untill she started to go off on one wtf
 
Don't write yourself off Uzzy. It's not over till the Fat Lady sings! As I've said previously. Allegations are just that. One persons twisted attempts to make a fathers life a misery. My magistrate was a decent guy. I was not expecting it. He and the CAFCASS Family Court Advisor were switched on and on my side. They knew she was talking out of her backside. So that's why I got contact centre during the fact finding even with the DV allegations against my own child! If they believed her they would not have given me any access to him.

My ex is a proper Vicky Pollard type spiteful b*** with absolute contempt for everyone and she cannot hide or control it. If your ex makes the same mistake and you remain golden it will go in your favour.

Don't give in. Make an effort during the FHDRA. Is it in court or via CVP? Fix up, look sharp, put on a shirt and tie and present the best version of you. Be polite, respectful and well mannered while she digs her hole even deeper.

The worst part of today was going round to tell my dad of the outcome. He has a very special bond with my son who he hasn't seen since February as he is also being refused contact because she knows he has helped me.

Watching a 69 year old pensioner drop his walking stick and break down in tears on his kitchen floor as I relayed what happened today was devastating. But once we got over it we took comfort from the fact I was seconds away from a COA and the court was on my side. This prompted my dad to call his solicitor. He and my mum are now going to seek legal advice about applying for their own individual court orders as grandparents.

My ex is going to get it with both barrels now.
 
I am really sorry to hear that and it doesn't surprise me. It's their one way of trying to delay what they don't want to happen - an order in place for time with you.

I also think it shouldn't have happened. Cafcass should have said - investigations are complete - there are no welfare issues. I think a barrister would also have made strong objections that the Mother is raising false allegations in order to disrupt the process and these should be ignored because Cafcass have completed their investigations and there are no welfare issues - and the Mother is wasting court time and resources. That's when it can help to have good representation - but it isn't always possible.

She will reach the end of the road though. Ridiculous that a fact find has had to be ordered, but she will have no evidence and you will have some evidence and can counteract her allegations. She sounds like the type that will raise new allegations at every hearing. I do know of one case where the ex raised new allegations at every hearing and it went on for two years. Purely because it was allowed to - it needs someone on your side to say - no - there are no welfare issues. The fact find should sort it though as it means she can't raise the allegations again.

If it's possible I would suggest you have some representation for the next hearing to knock this on the head. And this is where blooming magistrates are woolly. A District Judge might have just ignored that. Mind you some of them can be woolly as well.
 
I'd agree with Ash with representation you may well get this settled.

I just think when it's all settled and this type of action is used to kick proceedings further down the road there should be some kind of consequence. I.e. so we've done the due diligence and we've reached an agreement, there's no prior knowledge of this allegation(s) hence if you pursue and there is shown to be no substance then you will pay your exs legal fees or something. Just a bit of discretion for the court to put the squeeze on someone doing this.
 
Agree - this is where the court system fails and is not fit for purpose. All that time and man hours investigating and coming to conclusions and then saying - oh ok we'll do a bit more then. Cafcass seem deliberately evasive in this respect in not sticking up for their own investigations and determinations. Which I think is partly bias and partly fear. They always fear that they may have made a mistake and a child might be at risk. And an obstructive parent will continue to play on that. There is no recourse for false allegations, so they keep making them. That is the other problem with the system. But if there was recourse for false allegations, it would need to be PROVED they were false and proof of that isn't always easy or possible - when they could say - but the Mother really does have this anxiety even though her anxieties are not rational. It's because she's a Mother blah blah.

A fact find should sort it. Most Dads on here strongly recommend having a lawyer to present you for a fact find. The lawyer can do and say things that you can't and will knock any nonsense on the head and advocate for you. Is that affordable? What you could do is ask for a fixed fee quote for the one off hearing (which will include some preparation).

As a ballpark figure - my first application was an urgent one. I hired a solicitor the day before, who read the stuff the night before and represented me in court next day. The total cost was £1000. But that was many years ago. If you used a direct access barrister it would be about £2000 on a fixed fee for a half day hearing (for a very good one). They would charge separately for a consultation first. Anything else is included - all reading up, advice, and preparing a position statement, and looking over your responses. I reckon you could get the lot for £2000 but it is not a small sum. Maybe get quotes from both a solicitor and a direct access barrister. Barristers are the better advocates (ie verbally in court) and have more clout.
 
Kyle said:
Don't write yourself off Uzzy. It's not over till the Fat Lady sings! As I've said previously. Allegations are just that. One persons twisted attempts to make a fathers life a misery. My magistrate was a decent guy. I was not expecting it. He and the CAFCASS Family Court Advisor were switched on and on my side. They knew she was talking out of her backside. So that's why I got contact centre during the fact finding even with the DV allegations against my own child! If they believed her they would not have given me any access to him.

My ex is a proper Vicky Pollard type spiteful b*** with absolute contempt for everyone and she cannot hide or control it. If your ex makes the same mistake and you remain golden it will go in your favour.

Don't give in. Make an effort during the FHDRA. Is it in court or via CVP? Fix up, look sharp, put on a shirt and tie and present the best version of you. Be polite, respectful and well mannered while she digs her hole even deeper.

The worst part of today was going round to tell my dad of the outcome. He has a very special bond with my son who he hasn't seen since February as he is also being refused contact because she knows he has helped me.

Watching a 69 year old pensioner drop his walking stick and break down in tears on his kitchen floor as I relayed what happened today was devastating. But once we got over it we took comfort from the fact I was seconds away from a COA and the court was on my side. This prompted my dad to call his solicitor. He and my mum are now going to seek legal advice about applying for their own individual court orders as grandparents.

My ex is going to get it with both barrels now.
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I’m in court , self representing myself with a Mckenzie friend .

I’m gonna fight for it with out a doubt
 
I am now regretting the decision to self represent. Not a great deal, but now know the value of legal representation. It was a balanced choice that I made.

I sat down a few weeks ago and did some scenario analysis. The worst scenario of the 4 was that she would make further allegations and I put (domestic violence) in brackets in my notes.

I tried to think like a rational person and didn't really believe that scenario was likely. In fact I put (unlikely) in brackets next to it!!! How wrong was I? Why was I thinking like a rational person? Why was I not putting myself in her shoes? Of course she was going to use the worst case scenario and make further allegations to deny me my time with my child.

My position to any of you reading this and wondering if you should self represent or not is...no! Get a solicitor or barrister to defend you from these tactics as the court rolls over, and as Ash rightly pointed out above, they don't seem to have the confidence in there own position to refuse to accept an allegation which has already been proven wrong.

I am now getting quotes for solicitors and barristers to represent me in my next hearing. Funding it is going to be a challenge. I may have to work extra hours or sell belongings but it's worth it for my boy.
 
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I will regret the decision to act as LIP at my fact finding forever. My mind set at the time was the thousands saved in barristers fees would be better spent on my sons home with their dad. Please learn from my mistakes and get a decent barrister for a fact find. I was completely destroyed over 3 days by my ex expensive legal team. It’s an adversarial system and not child centred at all.
 
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Kyle, I have to agree. There are some small parts of the whole process which are manageable as a LIP but now approaching the 3rd anniversary of adversarial tactics I am acutely aware that I could have been "had over" on many occasions had I not been advised.

Mag benches are literally lawless, since they sit having no legal knowledge or background whatsoever, and totally rely on court advisors. DJ's are law-based but.....if there is ever any suggestion whatsoever that a child is affected by parents' seperation (the quandry being when can that NOT be the case!), the bench and the DJ revert to caution rather than common sense.

For myself, I was repped initially for 15 months before losing all confidence in that solicitor. Why is not relevant here. And so I self repped for the next 11 months, going through four directions hearings. An LIP position is achievable but that person can never know the finer points of Practice Directions, protocols and statement submissions. On the basis that the other side is also self repping the mountain is less steep, but nonetheless still craggy and occasionally almost impossible to scale because of the predisposition referred to above regarding judicial caution towards any child's welfare.

Then you have the situation where while you self rep the other side has a war chest and merrily pays the monthly solicitor bills to see you sunk without trace. Again, in my own (current and ongoing) circumstances, self repping against an egotistical, unprofessional and downright gutter merchant of a 'solicitor' becomes even harder because of the scurrilous tactics they peddle. Non sharing of Court bundles, behind the scenes correspondence that "inadvertently wasn't shared with you" (fake apology time)...and numerous other unfair actions....all happen and either without reprimand and/or significant disadvantage to the LIP. None of which the Court is ever bothered about.

My 11 months as a LIP reminded me deeply that in these Court situations, where blood line is intrinsically intermingled with proceedings, the ability to stay unemotional is paramount.....but also one of the hardest actions to see through. This is one aspect of all advice and support on this forum that I always want contributors to learn how to do. Seperate out the inevitable (& totally understandable) emotion from the need to be totally emotionless and purely business like. It is in no way easy but it is absolutely essential if you are to stand any chance of succeeding in what we all experience - an exceptionally gender-biased arena.

As soon as I became LIP the other side, within two weeks, put an Order in for Financial Remedy. They thought my own (tiny) war chest had now been exhausted by their endless four, six and even eight page letters of allegation, vitriol and downright nastiness. But they were wrong, I am moderately good at anticipation, (and if you are reading this, practice your skills!). I had sacked off the first solicitor with a reserve in mind for such a move from the O/S. So whereby they thought the technicals of finances would allow a whitewash of myself, they were immediately disappointed and ultimately well and truly thwarted (that's a polite term!). The Financials went through well and truly, and, actually, fairly, in my favour. Because I was represented.

The outcome has meant two things: I have a fab Financial result which has meant I can reappoint a child focused solicitor from the same trusted firm that sorted my financials. And in what has happened since the turn of this year, that money has been very well spent.

So (& I know Ash disagrees!), my own opinion is that IF the money is available, having the benefit of your own solicitor will serve you well.

Take care, SS.
 
To Back this up . I was a LIP for 6 months & received 92 emails from exes lawyers . Whilst at work ( London paramedic ) , looking after my boys and genuinely trying to live and function. Each email was about reducing my time with my sons & allegations . As soon as I had a lawyer then legal letters reduced to 1 a month .
 
To Back this up . I was a LIP for 6 months & received 92 emails from exes lawyers . Whilst at work ( London paramedic ) , looking after my boys and genuinely trying to live and function. Each email was about reducing my time with my sons & allegations . As soon as I had a lawyer then legal letters reduced to 1 a month .
 
Gents, I've got to say, you are all responsible for driving me forward in all of this. Your words of wisdom, experience, advice and encouragement are like wind in my sails, without it I would well and truly be floating around with no direction and If I ever get the chance to sit down and buy you a pint to say thank you for every bit of information you've shared on here that has aided me, well, lets just say that bar bill will be extremely large!

I have phoned around this afternoon and spoke to some solicitors and some barristers and had some quotes. None of them really sold themselves to me. Each one just came across as slightly tepid and wishy washy and just as I was making the last call to a rather elderly looking lady solicitor I seem to have found the family law equivalent of Margaret Thatcher! Whether that is a good thing or not I'm yet to decide. But this woman pulls absolutely no punches.

Could be just what I'm looking for.
 
mva said:
To Back this up . I was a LIP for 6 months & received 92 emails from exes lawyers . Whilst at work ( London paramedic ) , looking after my boys and genuinely trying to live and function. Each email was about reducing my time with my sons & allegations . As soon as I had a lawyer then legal letters reduced to 1 a month .
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I understand what you are saying mva.

In my circumstances, in 1st sol rep, the opposite was true: the communication from the O/S was a torrent, all of it was responded to and my piggy bank shrunk
During LIP period the comns from the O/S were still volumous but also, at times, very silent. This was ordinarily because I had written my own telling comms and a reply would be difficult to produce.

These days, bearing in mind these parties' Financial Remedy outcomes, it is notable that the O/S hide under stones.....simply because the Mother's once great war chest is under very significant pressure.

I turned the tables and I will continue to do so for my children's sake.

SS.
 
Kyle said:
Gents, I've got to say, you are all responsible for driving me forward in all of this. Your words of wisdom, experience, advice and encouragement are like wind in my sails, without it I would well and truly be floating around with no direction and If I ever get the chance to sit down and buy you a pint to say thank you for every bit of information you've shared on here that has aided me, well, lets just say that bar bill will be extremely large!

I have phoned around this afternoon and spoke to some solicitors and some barristers and had some quotes. None of them really sold themselves to me. Each one just came across as slightly tepid and wishy washy and just as I was making the last call to a rather elderly looking lady solicitor I seem to have found the family law equivalent of Margaret Thatcher! Whether that is a good thing or not I'm yet to decide. But this woman pulls absolutely no punches.

Could be just what I'm looking for.
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Hi Kyle. My experience is that it's good to use a direct access barrister rather than a Solicitor. They cost more, but ends up being cheaper usually (fixed fee, whereas solicitors charge for every conversation, phone call, letter read, document read, email etc). Barristers come into their own during hearings. They are much more experienced advocates and will give sound advice - sometimes blunt - you'll get this, you won't get this etc. For a fact find, I think a barrister would do a very good job for you and cut the whole letters back and forth business.

This means you do the paperwork yourself (generally solicitors are the paperwork lawyers and barristers are the court/hearing lawyers) but a barrister will look over things and advise.

However if you've found a solicitor you like the sound of, that sounds good, but be careful of fees. A good barrister might also be able to turn the fact find into a final hearing and be done with it.

What region are you in?
 
Sounds like the Judge has marked her cards for her with the outburst.
Coming out with more allegations, allegations that have never been made before are a common tactic when its going against them.

I hope next time your in court you get the same judge as this makes a huge difference.
 
This is a good thread, I am a LIP and am scared to death now about the fact find and the impact it will have, that said though, at present I have no idea if she has even got a solicitor I have heard nothing back even when I have asked, so my darling ex has made some serious allegations which she will now have to present at the FDRHA I am not going to bother with Solicitors and Barristers as I A: can't afford it and B: at this point don't really feel they can do that much if ultimately its the judges decision, The Fact find is rediculous, but having not seen my child properly now in 2 years I don't think that pegging a Barrister in there now would get me any further quicker, thing is for me I have to let it unwind and decompress, even on my C100 I have mentioned nothing, not even got into mud slinging at the start, its all on her terms, I see lots of posts on here about money and time etc, but the reality is you are at the mercy of the courts, this is not a criminal court it is not about YOU, what you win and what your ex gets, its not about revenge either, for me this is about a court process that is so FU that this is what they want, its a licence to print money, tie you in knots and rinse your bank account. Children do need fathers and some of you are luckier than me with money I guess, but I will post this link again for you all to see, this is the reality you are faced with,


maybe I could use a Direct Access Barrister for the Fact find but then what?

Only thing I did positively this week was buy a printer, for the start of this monsterous task ahead, and so.... the war rages on!
 
When all is said and done there is a word is all these hearings and all this terminology that should mean something. That word is Resolution.

I have been reading all about all of your individual cases and how many of you have been stuck in this process for years and I can’t for the life of me understand why they are not living by their own process and helping resolve these cases more quickly and efficiently. I thought that was supposed to be the aim.

Where the money we all spend on C100 applications goes I wouldn’t like to speculate. You’d hope every penny went towards the administrative costs of running a court system and not meant profit for something or someone.

There most definitely needs to be a deterrent for making false allegations.

From my recent experience the courts are so risk averse they are also being held hostage by the parent with wicked intent and should be trained to grow a pair. This is why legal representation is so important. And not just any old legal representation. A solicitor or barrister that is experienced enough and confident enough to spot when the magistrate or judge is flapping and be the voice of reason.

No one should be going to court to see their children for years. Things need to change. We’re a first world country and our family court system is still in the Middle Ages.
 
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