Accused of abuse by mother and children - HELP!

[Pacific16]

Today has been the most difficult day of my life.

I divorced my children’s mum 7 years ago, at which point she alleged domestic abuse. Our boys were 1&2.

Roll on 4 years, and I successfully varied the alternate weekend order to a 50/50 week on week off. I relocated away from family, gave up my job and career and was best positioned to support my boys.

Then….everything went bad. Mum became relentless with her messaging to the boys, which included the judge was wrong, you’re not supposed to see your dad, he stole all my stuff, he was abusive to me.

I did everything in my power to get the boys support through the school and private family therapy. Mum did not give consent once the feedback was positive about their emotions in both homes.

Fast forward to today. Mum has alleged abuse to the police and so children’s services assessing the case. The children have been manipulated so badly, that they are saying they never want to see their dad again and they’re too scared to enter his home. The social worker actually lied in court that she had never received reports from the therapist (I was copied in and she had it!!) and then claimed…”oh. It’s just come in this second” during the hearing. She also denied a conversation with me and my partner that the only things the boys did not like was being physically separated when they fight.

Needless to say, the court have sided with the recommendation and I now have just 3 hours supervised contact per week.

Where on earth do I go next? I’m truly devastated.

 

[Ash]

Hi. I'm really sorry to hear this. I would appeal. Was the case heard by Magistrates or a District Judge?

 

[Pacific16]

Hi. The without notice hearing was heard by magistrates and now referred to a FHDRA before the same judge we have always had. She knows the historic attempts to reduce the children’s time with me by mum, but I am sacred that (a) that is not until October, (b) in the meantime I have such little contact with my boys and (c) the alienation has now been engrained so deep.

The boys have said all these horrendous things about me, yet none of them are true.

I am just devastated

 

[Pacific16]

When the boys are with us they’re loving bf and affectionate but not when they are in the company of their mum.

We have a therapist and school saying that they are happy in both homes. We have 3 other adults that live in our house (my partner + 2 friends that have lived with us for 6 years). They are witness to all of the lies and our true relationship in our home. How do we go about getting them to provide evidence?

 

[lunico93x]

Hi. The without notice hearing was heard by magistrates and now referred to a FHDRA before the same judge we have always had. She knows the historic attempts to reduce the children’s time with me by mum, but I am sacred that (a) that is not until October, (b) in the meantime I have such little contact with my boys and (c) the alienation has now been engrained so deep.

The boys have said all these horrendous things about me, yet none of them are true.

I am just devastated

A without notice hearing should have given you a return hearing automatically, as is your right when a court makes a decision without notice/ex-parte. This would be your opportunity to challenge the decision and the submitted "evidence" that led to it.

Though if you were present at the hearing it suggests it wasn't ex-parte.

 

[Pacific16]

I really don’t know. There was an urgent without notice hearing which an urgent order was made without my attendance.

Then there was the urgent hearing which I did attend. The 3 Judges kept stressing how unusual the format of this hearing was because they had a social worker in attendance who was making recommendations. “We never usually have this” they said and “we are incredibly grateful”.

However the social worker withheld key evidence in her submissions and I don’t under re hand why she would do it. She withheld the therapist’s report which was flowing of father and children, and said “I have no reason to believe the views of the children were coerced”. However, I had provided her a 28-page document which detailed all of the alienation behaviours by date over the last 3 years, of the children’s mother, including emails and messages confirming them. It wasn’t ’he said’ ‘she said’…it was so plain to see. The social worker did not share any of this.

We feel victim of a biased social worker, or whether mum somehow has had an inside line to her. None of what she said adds up and she left all the positives out.

 

[Pacific16]

I really don’t know. There was an urgent without notice hearing which an urgent order was made without my attendance.

Then there was the urgent hearing which I did attend. The 3 Judges kept stressing how unusual the format of this hearing was because they had a social worker in attendance who was making recommendations. “We never usually have this” they said and “we are incredibly grateful”.

However the social worker withheld key evidence in her submissions and I don’t under re hand why she would do it. She withheld the therapist’s report which was flowing of father and children, and said “I have no reason to believe the views of the children were coerced”. However, I had provided her a 28-page document which detailed all of the alienation behaviours by date over the last 3 years, of the children’s mother, including emails and messages confirming them. It wasn’t ’he said’ ‘she said’…it was so plain to see. The social worker did not share any of this.

We feel victim of a biased social worker, or whether mum somehow has had an inside line to her. None of what she said adds up and she left all the positives out.

She was also in text conversation with mum immediately before the hearing, as we were sat in the waiting room. Are they not supposed to be impartial?

 

[Ash]

Ok so she did an ex parte hearing - was that for an NMO or a residence order - or both? You then had a follow up hearing with a horrible biased social worker present who sided with the ex - it has left you with 3 hours of supervised time a week until an FHDRA in October. Is that right?

However much you know the kids are being alienated - it could have been taken the wrong way if you sent a load of stuff to the SW claiming alienation as unfortunately the term parental alienation has been very muddied in the media and by womens groups in recent months. So we usually advice not directly accusing it, but describing the behaviours and certain incidents - and let the court decide what it is.

I suggest, if you can afford it, you get a direct access barrister to represent you at FHDRA to try and get stuff knocked on the head and a better interim order. They are experts in court hearings.

How did the social worker get involved anyway? She was probably there "to support" your ex. Has your ex made allegations of abuse?

How old are your kids?

Also if that is your real name can you let me know so I can change it to an anonymous username please.

 

[Pacific16]

Hi

That is my real name so please change it to something else.

I have been taking the boys to a family therapist for a year to help them manage the emotions and feelings that have come with the constant negative portrayal of father to the children. They are 8&9 now, but this is been a relentless drifted for over 3 years.

The therapist recognises that they have been badly manipulated and that mum is trying to do all she can to stop the boys from bonding with me (her words).

Mum has not engaged with therapy, but out of the blue called her and said she feels the boys should live within full time. Therapist strongly discouraged this and said the only time this could ever happen, were if there were significant safeguarding concerns with one parent.

2 days later my youngest made a safeguarding disclosure to the HT about me. 2 weeks later mum alleged abuse to the police. They referred to the social worker where she made the same allegations. The children said exactly the same as mum to police and social worker. Mum applied to court for an urgent hearing to suspend the current CAO, and the social worker presented her views…that dad WAS in her view, abusing the children.

I have done nothing wrong at all. I am crushed. I have never done anything to harm my children, and tried to involve every professional to support them…mum didn’t consent to these. Why would I do this if I was abusing them? Surely this would risk it all coming out? It just doesn’t make sense and no one is listening.

We have the FHDRA in October before the judge who knows the case, and I do plan to instruct a barrister for that case. But how do we provide these are lies, if mum and the children are saying it? How do I prove they have been alienated against me for such a sustained period of time, and have shifted from loving, to refusing any contact?

 

[Oneofmany]

Cany offer any advice on this but my heart goes out for you, keep strong

 

[mainstay92]

Pacific 16 said
Hi

That is my real name so please change it to something else.

I have been taking the boys to a family therapist for a year to help them manage the emotions and feelings that have come with the constant negative portrayal of father to the children. They are 8&9 now, but this is been a relentless drifted for over 3 years.

The therapist recognises that they have been badly manipulated and that mum is trying to do all she can to stop the boys from bonding with me (her words).

Mum has not engaged with therapy, but out of the blue called her and said she feels the boys should live within full time. Therapist strongly discouraged this and said the only time this could ever happen, were if there were significant safeguarding concerns with one parent.

2 days later my youngest made a safeguarding disclosure to the HT about me. 2 weeks later mum alleged abuse to the police. They referred to the social worker where she made the same allegations. The children said exactly the same as mum to police and social worker. Mum applied to court for an urgent hearing to suspend the current CAO, and the social worker presented her views…that dad WAS in her view, abusing the children.

I have done nothing wrong at all. I am crushed. I have never done anything to harm my children, and tried to involve every professional to support them…mum didn’t consent to these. Why would I do this if I was abusing them? Surely this would risk it all coming out? It just doesn’t make sense and no one is listening.

We have the FHDRA in October before the judge who knows the case, and I do plan to instruct a barrister for that case. But how do we provide these are lies, if mum and the children are saying it? How do I prove they have been alienated against me for such a sustained period of time, and have shifted from loving, to refusing any contact?
[/QUOTE]
Hi,
Use the evidence you have from the therapist and attach them to your statement as exhibits.
I know it's alot less than you have but supervised is a good sign as alot of dads get no contact. They will also be taking notes in the contact centre how you and the children are together.
Are the Police Investigating or is it NFO?

 

[Pacific16]

The contact is informally supervised, so is not at a contact centre, but supervised by someone the boys trust. Although I out lots of possibles forward, mum would only accept her mum to supervise. So I need to do activities with the boys and their grandmother who has refused to speak to me ever since I divorced her daughter.

It’s ridiculous and the therapist has highlighted the emotional distress the boys feel when they have to be with dad and maternal family, as they align their feelings and voice with what mum wants them to feel…and she hates me. So I anticipate contact that they will show grandmother that they hate.

 

[Ash]

So it's unreasonable to have her Mum supervising. How long till FHDRA? If it can't be agreed for someone else to supervise then you might be better off with a contact centre. Although your ex might try and manipulate that too and coach them before they go or just say they refuse to go.

I agree that you should get copies of the therapist reports. Although you might not be able to use them until a final hearing. (But you might be able to show them to the Police). Have you had a police interview yet? You're entitled to a free criminal solicitor if you have a police interview and info on here from another Dad has been that if you say no comment to everything, then the Police can't pass the case to the CPS unless there is evidence of the accusations - meaning NFA is likely to be much quicker.

You might be in a stronger position than you think as you already had a 50/50 shared care order. And it looks suspicious that your ex, out of the blue is accusing abuse and the boys parroting that. Unfortunately these professionals do inadvertently give ex's tips (like saying that would only happen if there's abuse). Keep the therapist reports under your belt for now for later, once used at court they have to be shared with the ex so IMO it's better if they're saved for a final statement/final hearing, when it's too late for her to try and undermine them. Although usually you can't submit evidence till a final hearing anyway.

One thing that might not look good for you is that you were taking the boys for therapy without agreement of both parents. Although hopefully the barrister could explain that.

So has your ex been hostile and manipulating the kids ever since the 50/50 order? It's disgusting what some women will do for more money and for control.

As for supervised, try and think of someone neutral and propose them to the court.

 

[Peanut 21]

I have nothing but contempt for social services in my humble opinion.
They take too much at face value and don't seem to be able to have a nuanced approach at all.
And in my partners experience they judge before even speaking with the dad.
Gather your evidence from professionals and adapt wording from parental alienation to alienating behaviours.
As others have said, as you had 50/50 before you have a strong foundation.
It's frustrating dads have to have supervised time with their kids while they prove their innocence.
Using the ex mil is ridiculous though. I'd apply for a contact centre too and if your ex disagrees she needs a good reason why.

 

[Pacific16]

Thank you to everyone for engaging and supporting with this…it makes a big difference.

I have recommended someone different to court but they are not available tomorrow so will have to be the ex MIL.

I have no concerns re therapy and not having Mums permission. I have records of asking her 16 times and her not engaging, which the courts urged us to do. I have therefore gone as a blended family, let mum know and kept her updated. This was part of the problem. As soon as the therapist gave positive feedback on the children enjoying time with their dad, she coached them and they began challenging her level of qualification!!! They were 7 and 8. They now say they have lied to the therapist for 10 months. Nonsense.

We have a therapists report but am going to push for court to request a detailed one. Also request a psychologist report of both parents.

At this stage it is not a criminal matter, just children services l, but so far they have been appalling.

 

[Ash]

I think that's a good idea to ask for psychologists reports on both parents - if you can afford it. It can be very expensive. But - you need this sorting - for the kids as well as yourself. It will be a higher authority than social services as well.

I think you should be asking for the children to live with you and spend time with their Mother and some curbs on her, due to her behaviour and a psychologist report can help with that hopefully. Although maybe rather than asking for it, let the psychologist recommend it.

Was there something that set all this off? Or has she been like this since the 50/50 order was made? (When she effectively had sole residency taken away from her). She sounds a bit bonkers and not giving a hoot about harming the kids psychologically.

Where you have to be careful though, is avoiding the label "conflict between parents" where you're both tarred with the same brush - eg she's made allegations about you and you're making them about her with the alienation.

In some cases, a barrister at a fact find has had the ex's allegations dismissed, the PA found for and a change of residence. So that is something else to consider. Although could get very expensive in legal fees to have a barrister for a fact find as well as other hearings.

Sometimes it's better to avoid a fact find. Other times it can get things knocked on the head and the PA proven.

 

[Pacific16]

Thank you.

I am really conscious of not labelling it parental alienation for all the reasons you and others have said. I have identified alienating behaviours….but there’s SO many examples. I kept a daily diary for 3 years since the change of living arrangements and have 28 pages of examples. And these are big examples…”the boys were told the judge was wrong and they should be living with mum only” was maybe the best, but also as petty as buying the boys football kits for rival teams that they supported with dad.

We have always had a shared care living arrangement, even though she appealed for sole residency at the start. This was gradually increased to 50-50, which mum was devastated about, and that is when the alienating behaviours intensified. This has been the case for 3 years until today where the children now (allegedly) refuse contact and have copied the mums allegations.

 

[bujanin]

I have recommended someone different to court but they are not available tomorrow so will have to be the ex MIL.

Given the mothers behaviour and the way that the kids have been influenced this set up puts you in a very vulnerable position doesn't it?

I think that you'd be wise to record the entire event from start to finish. Only to be used if the mother/MIL start trash talking you/making allegations about your behaviour after the meeting.

 

[Pacific16]

Funnily enough I’ve just added voice memos to my shortcuts, just in case.

 

[Ash]

Thank you.

I am really conscious of not labelling it parental alienation for all the reasons you and others have said. I have identified alienating behaviours….but there’s SO many examples. I kept a daily diary for 3 years since the change of living arrangements and have 28 pages of examples. And these are big examples…”the boys were told the judge was wrong and they should be living with mum only” was maybe the best, but also as petty as buying the boys football kits for rival teams that they supported with dad.

We have always had a shared care living arrangement, even though she appealed for sole residency at the start. This was gradually increased to 50-50, which mum was devastated about, and that is when the alienating behaviours intensified. This has been the case for 3 years until today where the children now (allegedly) refuse contact and have copied the mums allegations.

One problem is that it's not expert evidence and they'll just say it's hearsay. Things the boys have said, things you've witnessed. It's a difficult thing to prove. Psychologists reports is one way to do it. Cafcass will probably do a Section 7 and hopefully they'll pick up coaching and parroting.