3 day fact find next week

[BirminghamUK]

i have a 3 day fact find next week... actually today i have been notified that it is now a 2 day fact find...

good thing or bad thing?

i was hoping that after there are no finding's against me, i use the judge to asisst me in making favourable orders for me, instead of closing off my application.

 

[Ash]

Hi Birmingham - I think that sounds like a good thing! Clearly they've ignored some things and shortened the whole proceedings. @DadLad on here is also preparing for being LIP at a fact find - maybe you could help each other a bit. You do need to do quite a bit of reading and preparation.

 

[DadLad]

Did you respond to the scott schedule of allegations?

Possibly this is why it has been reduced?

 

[BirminghamUK]

Did you respond to the scott schedule of allegations?

Possibly this is why it has been reduced?

my fact find has been adjourned 5 times since 2020 (each time 6 or 9 months apart... I've responded to the scot schedule even after the judge allowed them to make further false allegations).

paperwork wise i think i have everything, just a matter of executing self representation....

 

[DadLad]

my fact find has been adjourned 5 times since 2020 (each time 6 or 9 months apart... I've responded to the scot schedule even after the judge allowed them to make further false allegations).

paperwork wise i think i have everything, just a matter of executing self representation....

Wow 5 times, that is absolutely shocking. What has been the reason for the adjournments each time?

 

[BirminghamUK]

Hi Birmingham - I think that sounds like a good thing! Clearly they've ignored some things and shortened the whole proceedings. @DadLad on here is also preparing for being LIP at a fact find - maybe you could help each other a bit. You do need to do quite a bit of reading and preparation.

we are still going for half day reading, half day cross exaamine ex, half day cross examine me, half day for judgement = 2 days.
they were supposed to cross examine ex's ex (who she denied knowing at all then changed her story to 'i do know him' but deny knowing him intimately...) but i dont think he's turning up, theres been no sign of him since 2021.

just a matter of staying calm... no doubt i'll be asked ridiculous questions regarding false allegations... i'll gritting my teeth the whole way.,

you sure the judge didnt book the 3rd day off... it is sunny and warm down south,

 

[DadLad]

we are still going for half day reading, half day cross exaamine ex, half day cross examine me, half day for judgement = 2 days.
they were supposed to cross examine ex's ex (who she denied knowing at all then changed her story to 'i do know him' but deny knowing him intimately...) but i dont think he's turning up, theres been no sign of him since 2021.

just a matter of staying calm... no doubt i'll be asked ridiculous questions regarding false allegations... i'll gritting my teeth the whole way.,

you sure the judge didnt book the 3rd day off... it is sunny and warm down south,

That sounds like the judge is incompetent with the appalling case management.

Have you had interim contact while this has been going on since 2020?

Mine is a combined 4 day (FF and final hearing) Im hoping that this will be reduced when I submit my responses and evidence.

 

[BirminghamUK]

Wow 5 times, that is absolutely shocking. What has been the reason for the adjournments each time?

- ex's solictior deliberately didnt send me scot schedule in time for Jan 2021... stupid judge adjourned it... she should have said well send it to him now...

- missing reports or delayed reports (they deliberately didnt produce the reports) and i didnt have the know how to chase them up myself... the order did give the ex's barrister the right to get the reports... so i think maybe i was not allowed...

- old allegations, judge gave the mother opportunoity to submit newer allegations,... WTF.. they are still using the 2017 - 2020 allegations plus new 2 from 2021....

took about 16 or so months to get a social service report, letters from mothers employer (mother alleges io contacted her employerr), ages for police disclosure even then theyve ommitted documents related the mothers arrests)

all have come back with no wrongdoing... but see how much time theyve bought...

daughter is 6.... hasnt seen me since 2020... how will she react to me in the contact centre after so long?

 

[BirminghamUK]

That sounds like the judge is incompetent with the appalling case management.

Have you had interim contact while this has been going on since 2020?

Mine is a combined 4 day (FF and final hearing) Im hoping that this will be reduced when I submit my responses and evidence.

when you have a Non Mol against you, they dont give interim... although im told if i had a barrister the judge would have had to give it... because the evidence / info presented so far doesnt warrant to stop supervised.... it was all BS mate...

the worst part is she got a NMO saying im a arms dealer... then later dropped that allegation... the same NMO is still active sicne 2020

 

[DadLad]

when you have a Non Mol against you, they dont give interim... although im told if i had a barrister the judge would have had to give it... because the evidence / info presented so far doesnt warrant to stop supervised.... it was all BS mate...

the worst part is she got a NMO saying im a arms dealer... then later dropped that allegation... the same NMO is still active sicne 2020

I've had 2 NMO dismissed but still no interim contact since 2021.

Cafcass supported contact then the ex made allegations and now cafcass don't support contact until a ff.

Cafcass have been the biggest burden in my case.

 

[BirminghamUK]

I've had 2 NMO dismissed but still no interim contact since 2021.

Cafcass supported contact then the ex made allegations and now cafcass don't support contact until a ff.

Cafcass have been the biggest burden in my case.

oh allegations like you are not capable of spending time supervised? why dont they give you interim?

its ridiculous.. how can supervised contact be denied.... its supervised ffs!

 

[DadLad]

oh allegations like you are not capable of spending time supervised? why dont they give you interim?

its ridiculous.. how can supervised contact be denied.... its supervised ffs!

The allegations are petty, never had any police involvement either.

Had allegations of alcohol and mental health dismissed.

I've had all sorts of petty allegations. She even said that I would manipulate contact centre workers

But ultimately, she has admitted that she does not support any contact. But doesn't have a valid reason why not. Her time is running out and what she has deprived not only me of but our child is 100% coercive control.

 

[BirminghamUK]

I've had 2 NMO dismissed but still no interim contact since 2021.

Cafcass supported contact then the ex made allegations and now cafcass don't support contact until a ff.

Cafcass have been the biggest burden in my case.

how come you had 2 NMO's.. are you still in contact with your ex?

i aint, even though i aint, my ex fabricated malicious communications to get her NMO....

 

[DadLad]

how come you had 2 NMO's.. are you still in contact with your ex?

i aint, even though i aint, my ex fabricated malicious communications to get her NMO....

First one was for contacting her asking to see our child.

Second one was for contacting her offering meditation before applying to court.

She tried to use the NMO applications as a weapon. The Judge dismissed them both.

I don't have any contact with her whatsoever to avoid another NMO application.

 

[BirminghamUK]

yeah no point... all contact should be agreed via court...
i did have supervised contact before my kid was only 2, but i liaised with the contact centre only.... it didnt work for me so i went back to court asking for assistance, thats when i was slapped with a NMO... in July 2020.... still active... and all direct contact ceased... (apart from pointkless weekly video call)

 

[Resolute]

we are still going for half day reading, half day cross exaamine ex, half day cross examine me, half day for judgement = 2 days.
they were supposed to cross examine ex's ex (who she denied knowing at all then changed her story to 'i do know him' but deny knowing him intimately...) but i dont think he's turning up, theres been no sign of him since 2021.

just a matter of staying calm... no doubt i'll be asked ridiculous questions regarding false allegations... i'll gritting my teeth the whole way.,

you sure the judge didnt book the 3rd day off... it is sunny and warm down south,

Will your ex have a barrister?

If so, it is a little more than staying calm. Barristers are very good at creating a situation where whatever you say can be set to their purpose. When you are cross examined, I suggest you:

Ask for the question to be repeated if you are unclear

Take notes on questions as they are asked

Refuse to answer compound questions. Ask the barrister to repeat piece by piece.

Ask the judge or magistrate to provide guidance if you are confused by the barristers behaviour.

Pause and think before you answer. Barristers like to lay traps by sneaking untruths into questions you accept and coming back to them an hour later. If there is an error in the question, address it. Do not answer until it is resolved. As a really simple example, I was asked to read a part of the bundle which reflected poorly on me. I was then asked to explain how I account for the Social Services report on my character and motivation. The title of the section I was asked to read was "Analysis." It was written by a manager I never spoke to. It analysed an investigation I elected not to engage with. So, my answer was: "it is not a report, it is an analysis written by somebody who has never spoken to me."

Do not listen when the barrister tells you they do not want to hear your answer. They will try to speak over you with a haughty authority if you get on to the stuff they know will damage your ex's case: "sorry, I have not finished answering. My answer relies on this information."

Have the bundle clear in your head. Be ready to refer to it as necessary. Use cross examination as your opportunity to give evidence. Pull everyone's attention to documents that the other side does not want to be a focus.

 

[BirminghamUK]

Will your ex have a barrister?

If so, it is a little more than staying calm. Barristers are very good at creating a situation where whatever you say can be set to their purpose. When you are cross examined, I suggest you:

Ask for the question to be repeated if you are unclear

Take notes on questions as they are asked

Refuse to answer compound questions. Ask the barrister to repeat piece by piece.

Ask the judge or magistrate to provide guidance if you are confused by the barristers behaviour.

Pause and think before you answer. Barristers like to lay traps by sneaking untruths into questions you accept and coming back to them an hour later. If there is an error in the question, address it. Do not answer until it is resolved. As a really simple example, I was asked to read a part of the bundle which reflected poorly on me. I was then asked to explain how I account for the Social Services report on my character and motivation. The title of the section I was asked to read was "Analysis." It was written by a manager I never spoke to. It analysed an investigation I elected not to engage with. So, my answer was: "it is not a report, it is an analysis written by somebody who has never spoken to me."

Do not listen when the barrister tells you they do not want to hear your answer. They will try to speak over you with a haughty authority if you get on to the stuff they know will damage your ex's case: "sorry, I have not finished answering. My answer relies on this information."

Have the bundle clear in your head. Be ready to refer to it as necessary. Use cross examination as your opportunity to give evidence. Pull everyone's attention to documents that the other side does not want to be a focus.

thanks, yes ex does have a barrister...

for compound questions, do i reply 'no comment' or 'please do not ask compound questions and rephrase in a acceptable manner'?

 

[Resolute]

I'm not sure how "no comment" would work in the family court setting. It works in police interviews because of the higher burden of proof and the need for evidence.

If you manage to note every part of the compound question. You can break it down yourself and answer the components separately. If not, I would tell the barrister that you need to hear the question again and will answer each part of it separately to avoid confusion.

It was a simple trick used against me. Goes like this:

"Are you saying, A, B, C, and D?"

If you say yes, it gives ammo.

If you say no, you contradict yourself.

So the answer is something like:

A. Yes
B. No
C. I did in circumstances where...
D. Yes, but in 2017 when...

EDIT
Just to add.

The "no comment" and "acceptable manner" type talk is something I avoided in court. A decision on you could be made by the narrowest of margins. If you come across as shirty and get backs up, that could be enough to turn the decision.

Part of what will be under assessment is your character. A courteous and collaborative tone, even a touch of joviality, helped me I think.

 

[Resolute]

Timing is going to be important. It will be in the other sides interest to delay as much as possible. Snap judgments tend to favour the status quo, i.e. you are to be seen as a danger. I suspect they'll aim to stretch cross examination of you past lunch time on day 2.

In the pre amble of day 1 I suggest you make some introductory remarks. This can include stuff like:

1. Calling any documents not in the bundle to everyone's attention
2. Registering any difficulties you have with the bundle. A common trick is to mess with page numbering convention for the one with the court and providing that to you late in the day.
3. Any comments on the tight schedule and importance of allowing allocated time for each section.
4. Request any guidance you need from the judge. How to address, when to stand... Anything you are unsure of. It is better to ask for and follow guidance in my experience.

 

[BirminghamUK]

Timing is going to be important. It will be in the other sides interest to delay as much as possible. Snap judgments tend to favour the status quo, i.e. you are to be seen as a danger. I suspect they'll aim to stretch cross examination of you past lunch time on day 2.

In the pre amble of day 1 I suggest you make some introductory remarks. This can include stuff like:

1. Calling any documents not in the bundle to everyone's attention
2. Registering any difficulties you have with the bundle. A common trick is to mess with page numbering convention for the one with the court and providing that to you late in the day.
3. Any comments on the tight schedule and importance of allowing allocated time for each section.
4. Request any guidance you need from the judge. How to address, when to stand... Anything you are unsure of. It is better to ask for and follow guidance in my experience.

Thanks Resolute... on the past 3 occasions (or over the past 3 years) i have always flagged missing documents...

to this day, they still seem to be persisistent in omitting documents from the bundle..

i always have the missing documents to hand (i.e. my statetements, my exhibits from my NMO applications)
and/or
highlight missing disclosures (i..e from when the ex was arrested)... All i can do is highlight... and from experience when the judge asks why they are missing, the barrister always blames the solicitior who isnt even in the court room at the time.. and issues just gets swept under the carpet.