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TIPS FOR CAFCASS FIRST PHONECALL!

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Nujra Rof

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Hey guys,

I will be receiving my cafcass first phone call within the next 5 weeks, so wanted to ask if anyone has any experience/tips for this. Be great to know:

1) what to expect on the call
2) I understand they just randomly phone you, is it a particular number so can look out for it and not miss it
3) what will they ask
4) what answers do they expect from dads
5) anything that is important we mention
6) anything not to mention
7) anything we can do before hand that will sound good on the call in achieving 50-50 shared care

Thank you in advance :)
 
1) allegations from mum which will almost sound as if they have been accepted and proved by CAFCASS. Don't rise to this or react.

2) you should be given a window on a specific date

3) about the allegations and what you want

4) who knows. Just keep yours polite and child focused

5) commitment to co parenting and child's best interests

6) conflict with mother

7) not really. My experience is that it really depends on mums direction of travel.

All best mate
 
- Jot down a "beat sheet" in advance, summarising points you want to hit to get your case across (or think CAFCASS will want to hear) to refer back to on the call

- Be wary of CAFCASS coming across as too "chummy" and luring you into a sense that they're on your side to get you to start bad-mouthing your Ex

- Try and find something positive to say about Ex (hard, I know).. even if it's along the lines of "I think EX is a good Mum, and CHILD loves her very much, but I also think EX has trouble letting go of CHILD, which is why I think she's resistant to CONTACT"

Good luck!
 
DannyK said:
- Jot down a "beat sheet" in advance, summarising points you want to hit to get your case across (or think CAFCASS will want to hear) to refer back to on the call

- Be wary of CAFCASS coming across as too "chummy" and luring you into a sense that they're on your side to get you to start bad-mouthing your Ex

- Try and find something positive to say about Ex (hard, I know).. even if it's along the lines of "I think EX is a good Mum, and CHILD loves her very much, but I also think EX has trouble letting go of CHILD, which is why I think she's resistant to CONTACT"

Good luck!
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I like that last line, if you got any other gems just let me know mate :)

I will start writing it down, problem is I don't know if I just await a call and it is random or they contact me to book an appointment etc. so I can be ready and so forth. Any ideas?
 
Nujra Rof said:
I like that last line, if you got any other gems just let me know mate :)

I will start writing it down, problem is I don't know if I just await a call and it is random or they contact me to book an appointment etc. so I can be ready and so forth. Any ideas?
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No worries! You'll get a morning or afternoon appointment, with plenty of advance notice of the date.

At least that was the case with my area.
 
You will get an email via Egress asking you to confirm your details/identity/email address. After you reply to that you will either get another email with a date and time of a phone appointment, or a letter through the post. However, I haven't done it recently, so if that has changed can someone comment please! It is possible, but not usual, that they phone out of the blue however.

Usually they have already spoken to the Mother first. The bias starts right there! They tend to always speak to the Mother first. The ex is bound to slag you off but don't worry about it. Providing she doesn't make any serious allegations, cafcass are likely to ignore her slagging you off and just recommend both parents attend a separated parenting course.

The mantra on here is "don't say anything negative about the Mother" - if you want to succeed. My tip is to try and steer the conversation onto talking about the kids - like xxx loves swimming - he's like a fish - we go every saturday morning. This makes things sound normal and less stilted and your enthusiasm for your kids comes across. Keep everything positive about the kids and your time with them.

Cafcass might try and "bait" you to criticise the Mother. So don't fall into that trap. I'm not saying they do it deliberately but they could say things that press your buttons and you react defensively. Don't react. You can pause and take a breath and have a few answers prepared

Eg "I'm sorry Mrs Ex is saying that because it isn't true - I think she is just unhappy about this court application.

DON'T say: She's just saying it to get the most Child Maintenance out of me.

If you mention any welfare concerns whatsoever about the Mother (even if they are true) then they will almost certainly order a Section 7 report. A more in depth Cafcass interview - sometimes face to face. But more often it is only face to face with the Mother , with the kids with her, and a phone interview with Dad. It is very common for them not to see the kids with Dad. If they don't however, you can get the Section 7 report undermined later at a final hearing because they are almost always strongly biased towards the Mother as the main parent.

Ideally you get a Cafcass letter with no real issues with either parent and just mediation or parenting courses recommended - that way you can progress to a final hearing.

One of my Cafcass interviews seemed to be going very well. I was prepared - had bullet points on a piece of paper in front of me having already written a script of things I wanted to say and read it through a few times, but just made bullet points to have in front of me to jog my memory.

She was very friendly and I relaxed, got to talk about my son a bit. Then she threw a fast ball "Mrs Ex says you're controlling, what do you say to that".

That threw me. I managed to pause for a moment and said well she has a very strong personality and likes to think her way is the only way. Or something like that.

The report came back saying we'd both accused each other of being controlling. Different situation though as I had already been a separated parent for a number of years and it was an application to vary. It was also pre pandemic and section 7's were less common.

My next Cafcass call was for an enforcement hearing and was very bad. I had no notice, was phoned out of the blue while working in a noisy environment. The Cafcass officer was rude, hostile and blunt. I hardly got to say anything and it seemed she had already made her mind up. When I mentioned the history (and there was a lot of history particularly comments by Judges about ex) she was dismissive and said she wasn't interested.

So some of it is luck! If they're friendly, don't get lulled into a false sense of security. Have some answers thought out to awkward questions - like the example above. But don't say "she's a liar - and she has done some terrible stuff like xxxxxxxxxxx" because then they tar you both with the same brush. They probably don't believe either of your allegations and they put it down to "conflict between parents" and say that to avoid conflict for the kids, they should live with the ex and have minimal time with you.

This is why you don't say anything negative about the ex. Saying something positive about her makes you sound like the one who is the good co parent. Eg, she's a good Mother, or she's a good cook, followed by the second mantra

"I just want our children to have happy loving relationships with both their parents".
 
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Can I just add - I think it is really really important to keep focused on the goal. The goal is to get to a final hearing. When you get chance to argue your case, present evidence and get a final order. Everything before that is just messy and word salad. No evidence is allowed until a final hearing. The wrong words and things can drag on for a long time.

Cafcass are doing safeguarding checks. All they need to know is - is the Father safe. They don't care if the Mother is safe or not! They will always assume that the Mother is safe unless they have been imprisoned for drink or drugs or Social services have said she is not safe with the kids.

If she has any history - that is dismissed as historic. If you have any history, you are seen as a potential abuser. That's just the way it is.

So what you want are clear safeguarding checks, no issues with either parent, parenting courses recommended and to go to a final hearing.

Too many Dads get caught up in a war with the ex instead of keeping the eye on the goal and getting a good order to see their kids.
 
Thanks Ash - Moral of the story seems to be "eyes on the prize" and so be positive, about everything even the mum.

You mentioned parenting courses a few times, I've done the dads unlimited three hour workshop and got there certificate, is there any others your recommend and would it help if I got them done in advance?

Thanks
 
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PS - You stated not to mention her history as it is dismissed, will they ask me outright if there has been any police incidents involving mum? And should I answer according or otherwise not bring it up?
 
I'll leave others to comment on that - my view is - don't mention it. If they ask you about it (eg if there is a police check comes up) I would just say yes that was a difficult time but things improved. However the marriage is broken down now. You will both get a copy of the Cafcass report and it helps if one parent only says positive things. It's more or less expected that the ex will slate you but hopefully it will be minor stuff and seen as that.

The important bit of the safeguarding letter is the bit at the end - what Cafcass recommends next. Anything above that is just them "reporting" what both parents have said (it doesn't mean they are agreeing with it).

I can't remember the name of the course they recommend now - it used to be a SPIPP course but it's been replaced with something else - if someone could oblige with the name ...............
 
Absolutely agree with ash.

Don't let yourself fall into the trap of expecting parity or even fairness.

Sound off to yourself or friends about the injustices of it all but you just have to accept there's a game to be played.

As men we will be dealt the losing hand so you just have to bluff your way through it.

Tit for tat and he said she said will just cost you time and energy.
 
emphasis the relationship with your children. It is important that Cafcass and the court recognise you have a previously established relationship and that you wish to rebuild it despite not having contact.

questions about your ex , try bounce back.

cafcass: Your ex has made allegations and claims that blah blah blah...
you : I'm disappointed to hear that, why do you think she is saying that ?

In my case, cafcass and icfa completely changed their tune, when they say for themselves the blatant lying my ex was doing.

So , think of the long game, and keep yourself in check.
 
There is some really good advice in here, but I’m just going to add my experience.

My call was not very child focussed at all, about 15mins out of the whole hours call and she kept discussing about mums allegations, my arrests (NFA) etc, and I did the usual answers of ‘not sure why she has said that’ , ‘that’s not correct’ etc and tried to move on. But by the end of the call I could tell it had gone wrong and the agent said she would be referring for a section 7. Next thing I know two days later we are requested to attend court for an emergency hearing the following week. We all go into court and CaFCASS haven’t submitted their report in time so the judge can’t do anything. However when we do receive the report it’s very biased and recommends ‘no interim contact’ even though I’d been seeing the children significant amounts of time for 3 months prior to interview with no issues. Of course mum pulled contact, which means for at least 5 months before we are back in court I will not have seen my children 🙁

So what I’m saying is that all the advice here is good, but try to gauge the interviewer and if she (because I’d bet money it will be female) becomes focused on the allegations try to have some robust answers prepared, but not confrontational.

Good Luck !
 
The trouble is not only do they show bias towards mum they are also overly cautious. Any hint from mum that you could be any sort of risk, despite the absence of evidence, they'll withhold conflict so you have to be careful not to appear to be what you are being painted as.
 
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nothernsoul said:
The trouble is not only do they show bias towards mum they are also overly cautious. Any hint from mum that you could be any sort of risk, despite the absence of evidence, they'll withhold conflict so you have to be careful not to appear to be what you are being painted as.
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I agree - their risk analysis is totally flawed. In my letter resulting from the call, the author had written the words "potential risk" of the father finding out the whereabouts of the mother, and so was recommending no contact.

Luckily the judge didn't accept the recommendation and said the primary objective of the Court was the wellbeing of the child, which could only be ensured when both parents are involved.

I was able to ask the author subsequently why she had written "potential risk", when I had very carefully explained why my child would be very safe in my company. I asked why the term "potential" risk rather than the actual, calculated risk, as in such risk assessments done in the safety industry. I was told it was because the mother was in a refuge, and being in a refuge changes their metric for risk assessment. It means that to be admitted to a refuge, the authorities responsible for safeguarding have already done a risk analysis that proves that a real risk to the child's safety exists.

So the bottom line is, whatever the mother has said to the GP, the school, the MASH team, A2 Dominion abuse protection, the police and everyone else about the monster the father is: which has resulted in her admission to a refuge, CAFCASS believes those authorities did a good job and gave it all a rubber stamp.

So it means you have no chance whatsoever - no matter what you say - to dismantle the lies and deceit of a narcissistic mother seeking revenge who has carefully built a case against you over months. You only have 45 minutes at best.

Luckily the judge has been round this same block a few more times than everyone else involved, and could see clearly what was really going on.

All I can say to you is Good Luck!
 
Razbert said:
I agree - their risk analysis is totally flawed. In my letter resulting from the call, the author had written the words "potential risk" of the father finding out the whereabouts of the mother, and so was recommending no contact.

Luckily the judge didn't accept the recommendation and said the primary objective of the Court was the wellbeing of the child, which could only be ensured when both parents are involved.

I was able to ask the author subsequently why she had written "potential risk", when I had very carefully explained why my child would be very safe in my company. I asked why the term "potential" risk rather than the actual, calculated risk, as in such risk assessments done in the safety industry. I was told it was because the mother was in a refuge, and being in a refuge changes their metric for risk assessment. It means that to be admitted to a refuge, the authorities responsible for safeguarding have already done a risk analysis that proves that a real risk to the child's safety exists.

So the bottom line is, whatever the mother has said to the GP, the school, the MASH team, A2 Dominion abuse protection, the police and everyone else about the monster the father is: which has resulted in her admission to a refuge, CAFCASS believes those authorities did a good job and gave it all a rubber stamp.

So it means you have no chance whatsoever - no matter what you say - to dismantle the lies and deceit of a narcissistic mother seeking revenge who has carefully built a case against you over months. You only have 45 minutes at best.

Luckily the judge has been round this same block a few more times than everyone else involved, and could see clearly what was really going on.

All I can say to you is Good Luck!
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So would you say the judge made their own mind up as opposed to following cafcass recommendation?

As I see a lot of stuff say the judge just goes with cafcass :/
 
My barrister explained to me that courts rarely swerve from S7 recommendations.

Your initial call isn't that.
 
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