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Yea
Unsure what ex means by covering all legal fees. The actual court fee is only £250 odd. I think just get the C100 in asap. His ex will have to pay her own fees if she wants solicitor/barrister. She might be bluffing and capitulate after speaking to her own solicitor or caffcass.

If your partner has in writing that ex said he has to go to court or not see kids then thats good evidence for down the line.

Also once partner gets his C100 in he might recieve correspondance from her solicitor. Would advice not responding with own solicitor as the bills will just rack up.

In short C100 then see what her approach is.
We believe she's under the impression he has to pay for everything.

She was unaware mediation was part of the process and when she was informed she would need to pay for her session she stated it's up to her if she does it or not, even though she is the one stating he cannot see his child without court. Yet refuses to take part in the process...completely bizarre. So it is possible she could ignore court or try the domestic abuse route for legal aid as it seems she's very much against paying for anything.

Totally agree, will update the post on the outcome of the c100 or if further advice is needed.

Thanks everyone for the support :)
 
Yea

We believe she's under the impression he has to pay for everything.

She was unaware mediation was part of the process and when she was informed she would need to pay for her session she stated it's up to her if she does it or not, even though she is the one stating he cannot see his child without court. Yet refuses to take part in the process...completely bizarre. So it is possible she could ignore court or try the domestic abuse route for legal aid as it seems she's very much against paying for anything.

Totally agree, will update the post on the outcome of the c100 or if further advice is needed.

Thanks everyone for the support :)
Others on here are good at wording on C100 / statements etc
 
Just caught up with this.

So the key is to try and keep it to the minimum number of hearings and cost and keep to the mantra "don't say anything negative about the Mother" (to help keep it simple and to the minimum number of hearings.

If you've been reading round the forum you'll see that what can happen is, if both parents accuse each other of things or critize each other, it can be labelled as "conflict between parents", and as they always leave the child with the Mother, Cafcass could say minimal or no time with Dad to avoid the conflict for the child. So that is the reason not to criticize her.

The key thing to remember is - this is about getting a child arrangements order, not a sparring match with the ex or proving which is the worst of the two etc. So to get that Child Arrangements order you need to jump through hoops, be patient and be whiter than white from now on - which includes only saying child focused things (like "my child's time with me" rather than "my time"). Semantics come into the whole process quite a lot. And not criticizing the Mother, and sounding positive about wanting to co parent amicably. Which may go against the grain at time, but that is what Cafcass and the courts want to see.

Because of the way the system is, it's quite logical in a way. Child lives with Mother - is Dad safe/ok? If he is he gets an order.

Costs: Some people in London use a Barrister from outside London - eg Oxford or Southampton - as it can cost a bit less. But you can expect to pay about 2.5 for a half day hearing (eg a first hearing or a Directions hearing) and about 5k (ie double) for a full day final hearing.

So if things go smoothly it may not be more than 7.5k. For a first hearing and then straight to a final hearing if no agreement at the first hearing.

When it can take longer and get more expensive is when there are allegations on both sides and/or the court orders an additional "fact find" hearing. Also sometimes if the court orders a Section 7 report which means an additional hearing after the Section 7 report. That seems to be increasingly common these days but is less likely if you don't make any allegations (and depending on the age of the child).

So all you need to say in your C100 is that he was seeing his child regularly for x years, every other week-end for 3 nights and a midweek overnight each week. And that Mrs Ex then moved further away and has a new partner, so it's no longer possible to do midweek nights. And that she has now witheld the child coming, isn't communicating and declined to turn up at mediation. And he would like the court to make an interim order as soon as possible to reinstate the child's week-end time with him, and unless agreement is reached by consent at the first hearing. He requests the court makes a final order for every other week-end and half the school holidays, with defined dates and alternating special days.

No need to mention who said what or her behaviour etc - you can save that until your final statement for the final hearing which is when you can present evidence (if you have any text messages eg). Because by the time of final hearing it's already established there are no welfare issues.

So the process is:

1) Submit the C100 application
2) Get court papers back (the ex will receive a copy of the C100 at this time)
3) Cafcass email followed by Cafcass phone interviews.
4) Receive Cafcass safeguarding letter (which might have recommendations at the end).
5) Possibly a gatekeeping hearing (just Cafcass and a Judge, no parents, to decide what next but it usually goes straight to a first hearing).
6) First hearing (FHDRA) - opportunity for agreement and consent order (consent order unlikely unless both have lawyers).
7) If no agreement and welfare issues have been dismissed it goes to a final hearing -mediation or parenting courses might be ordered meanwhile.

So what is common, when an ex wants to win or wants free lawyers, is that they make a load of allegations to Cafcass and say he is abusive. And it's important he doesn't do the same, if he wants to save time and money and get an order.

It can make unpleasant reading as Cafcass report what both parents have said, in the safeguarding letter, but it doesn't mean it's true and it's important not to go on the defensive by accusing something back. If your partner comes across as reasonable and child focused, Cafcass might ignore any allegations she makes. Unless they are particularly serious or she's taken out an Non molestation order against him or something.

The advantage your partner has here, is history. He's already had regular time with the child since separation so this is basically a disagreement.

Hopefully you'll go straight to a first hearing and straight to a final hearing.

You could self-rep at the first hearing and only use a Barrister for a final hearing. But - if your ex has a solicitor, they will be acting for her and trying to cause delays and problems (it's an adversarial process) and they are highly likely to push for a Section 7 report. Which would add another hearing and a few months of delay. Section 7's invariably favour Mothers, but if your partner has done no wrong then he should still get a decent order recommended.

So on that basis, if he can afford it, it could be very good to have a Barrister at the first hearing.

1) To try and thrash out a consent order with the ex's laywer - so it goes no further and that's that. It can save time and money.
2) To argue against a section 7 and get an interim order.
3) If a consent order is reached, his Barrister would write up the order - so it will be correct! If the ex has a lawyer and he doesn't, then her lawyer will write up the order and they tend to try and do it in the ex;s favour with lots of loopholes in the wording.

So personally I would try and use a Barrister for the first hearing if at all possible. Because solicitors for ex;s have so many dirty tricks. And because it may just end with a consent order at the first hearing, if lawyers do negotiations - which they are very good at - that's a story in itself. But sometimes an ex will just dig her heels in and refuse to agree anything. Especially if she's getting free lawyers. If she isn't, then she has an incentive to agree at the first hearing or it will cost her money for a final hearing too.

But you can decide on that when you see what the Cafcass letter says and whether she's made any allegations, and what Cafcass are recommending.

The point made earlier about police interviews (if he's unfortunate enough that she decides to tell the police he's done something), was a tip passed on by a member on here, who had had legal advice from a criminal lawyer to no comment everything. The reason being, apparently, is that if it's a no comment interview, the police can't pass the case to the CPS - unless they have evidence. So the police case is likely to get closed much quicker. It's a legal thing.

The other tip he passed on was that you are entitled to a free criminal solicitor if you have to have a police interview and this will help a lot. And is better than using the Police duty solicitor as there'd be no time for preparation. His allegations were very serious ones but the same applies generally.

Until a police case is closed, the Child Arrangements progress will be halted and he won't be able to get very far. And might only be allowed supervised time with the child. So getting it closed quickly is important (NFA - no further action). If it's passed to the CPS he could be on bail for months while they investigate.

Hopefully she won't go to the police, considering she's not even communicating. And as I said, the advantage your partner has is the history - regular co parenting.

How old is the child by the way?
 
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Welcome @Missymiss
Fellow supporter of a dad here. There are a few other women on the forum in our boat.
After years of being in this position, my advice on helping your partner is this:
1) let him talk/vent about the situation and just listen.
2) Offer advice if he asks for it. Ask if he'd like help with filling in court forms and writing up other documents. Help him proof read them.
3) Let him know you believe him and you back him 100%. This process will be the most stressful and lonely thing your partner will go through. He may have friends or family doubt him. Be his rock.
4) When he has down days let him wallow for a bit. When he shows signs of feeling better really encourage him to keep going.
5) Let him lead with what he wants to do. Us women can sometimes feel we need to protect our partners and control the situation. It's his kid(s) and ex so it's his battle.
6) Don't let this consume your relationship. Find time to have fun together and plan things.
7) If you don't already, do a lot of walking in your spare time to clear your heads or hash out problems.
8) Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

In terms of the exchange of bad words between your partner and his ex, don't worry too much. Let her rant and rave to cafcass. If your partner must address it, he can say "Like most couples when they separate we did exchange some not so nice words but it wasn't in front of our child (hopefully it wasn't?) and since then we've kept communication child focused". The courts aren't bothered about a bit of name calling. She may well make false allegations of DV but if she doesn't have proof like police or GP reports it'll probably just be dismissed.

Also the attached has good advice

 
Just caught up with this.

So the key is to try and keep it to the minimum number of hearings and cost and keep to the mantra "don't say anything negative about the Mother" (to help keep it simple and to the minimum number of hearings.

If you've been reading round the forum you'll see that what can happen is, if both parents accuse each other of things or critize each other, it can be labelled as "conflict between parents", and as they always leave the child with the Mother, Cafcass could say minimal or no time with Dad to avoid the conflict for the child. So that is the reason not to criticize her.

The key thing to remember is - this is about getting a child arrangements order, not a sparring match with the ex or proving which is the worst of the two etc. So to get that Child Arrangements order you need to jump through hoops, be patient and be whiter than white from now on - which includes only saying child focused things (like "my child's time with me" rather than "my time"). Semantics come into the whole process quite a lot. And not criticizing the Mother, and sounding positive about wanting to co parent amicably. Which may go against the grain at time, but that is what Cafcass and the courts want to see.

Because of the way the system is, it's quite logical in a way. Child lives with Mother - is Dad safe/ok? If he is he gets an order.

Costs: Some people in London use a Barrister from outside London - eg Oxford or Southampton - as it can cost a bit less. But you can expect to pay about 2.5 for a half day hearing (eg a first hearing or a Directions hearing) and about 5k (ie double) for a full day final hearing.

So if things go smoothly it may not be more than 7.5k. For a first hearing and then straight to a final hearing if no agreement at the first hearing.

When it can take longer and get more expensive is when there are allegations on both sides and/or the court orders an additional "fact find" hearing. Also sometimes if the court orders a Section 7 report which means an additional hearing after the Section 7 report. That seems to be increasingly common these days but is less likely if you don't make any allegations (and depending on the age of the child).

So all you need to say in your C100 is that he was seeing his child regularly for x years, every other week-end for 3 nights and a midweek overnight each week. And that Mrs Ex then moved further away and has a new partner, so it's no longer possible to do midweek nights. And that she has now witheld the child coming, isn't communicating and declined to turn up at mediation. And he would like the court to make an interim order as soon as possible to reinstate the child's week-end time with him, and unless agreement is reached by consent at the first hearing. He requests the court makes a final order for every other week-end and half the school holidays, with defined dates and alternating special days.

No need to mention who said what or her behaviour etc - you can save that until your final statement for the final hearing which is when you can present evidence (if you have any text messages eg). Because by the time of final hearing it's already established there are no welfare issues.

So the process is:

1) Submit the C100 application
2) Get court papers back (the ex will receive a copy of the C100 at this time)
3) Cafcass email followed by Cafcass phone interviews.
4) Receive Cafcass safeguarding letter (which might have recommendations at the end).
5) Possibly a gatekeeping hearing (just Cafcass and a Judge, no parents, to decide what next but it usually goes straight to a first hearing).
6) First hearing (FHDRA) - opportunity for agreement and consent order (consent order unlikely unless both have lawyers).
7) If no agreement and welfare issues have been dismissed it goes to a final hearing -mediation or parenting courses might be ordered meanwhile.

So what is common, when an ex wants to win or wants free lawyers, is that they make a load of allegations to Cafcass and say he is abusive. And it's important he doesn't do the same, if he wants to save time and money and get an order.

It can make unpleasant reading as Cafcass report what both parents have said, in the safeguarding letter, but it doesn't mean it's true and it's important not to go on the defensive by accusing something back. If your partner comes across as reasonable and child focused, Cafcass might ignore any allegations she makes. Unless they are particularly serious or she's taken out an Non molestation order against him or something.

The advantage your partner has here, is history. He's already had regular time with the child since separation so this is basically a disagreement.

Hopefully you'll go straight to a first hearing and straight to a final hearing.

You could self-rep at the first hearing and only use a Barrister for a final hearing. But - if your ex has a solicitor, they will be acting for her and trying to cause delays and problems (it's an adversarial process) and they are highly likely to push for a Section 7 report. Which would add another hearing and a few months of delay. Section 7's invariably favour Mothers, but if your partner has done no wrong then he should still get a decent order recommended.

So on that basis, if he can afford it, it could be very good to have a Barrister at the first hearing.

1) To try and thrash out a consent order with the ex's laywer - so it goes no further and that's that. It can save time and money.
2) To argue against a section 7 and get an interim order.
3) If a consent order is reached, his Barrister would write up the order - so it will be correct! If the ex has a lawyer and he doesn't, then her lawyer will write up the order and they tend to try and do it in the ex;s favour with lots of loopholes in the wording.

So personally I would try and use a Barrister for the first hearing if at all possible. Because solicitors for ex;s have so many dirty tricks. And because it may just end with a consent order at the first hearing, if lawyers do negotiations - which they are very good at - that's a story in itself. But sometimes an ex will just dig her heels in and refuse to agree anything. Especially if she's getting free lawyers. If she isn't, then she has an incentive to agree at the first hearing or it will cost her money for a final hearing too.

But you can decide on that when you see what the Cafcass letter says and whether she's made any allegations, and what Cafcass are recommending.

The point made earlier about police interviews (if he's unfortunate enough that she decides to tell the police he's done something), was a tip passed on by a member on here, who had had legal advice from a criminal lawyer to no comment everything. The reason being, apparently, is that if it's a no comment interview, the police can't pass the case to the CPS - unless they have evidence. So the police case is likely to get closed much quicker. It's a legal thing.

The other tip he passed on was that you are entitled to a free criminal solicitor if you have to have a police interview and this will help a lot. And is better than using the Police duty solicitor as there'd be no time for preparation. His allegations were very serious ones but the same applies generally.

Until a police case is closed, the Child Arrangements progress will be halted and he won't be able to get very far. And might only be allowed supervised time with the child. So getting it closed quickly is important (NFA - no further action). If it's passed to the CPS he could be on bail for months while they investigate.

Hopefully she won't go to the police, considering she's not even communicating. And as I said, the advantage your partner has is the history - regular co parenting.

How old is the child by the way?
Hi Ash,

I can not thank you enough, this is so detailed and informative.

We have saved this in our shared folder to look back on when we reach each point.

6) First hearing (FHDRA) - opportunity for agreement and consent order (consent order unlikely unless both have lawyers). - on this point, a consent order is the legal order right which is why if no lawyer is present it's not possible? if they do come to an agreement is there a way to legalise the agreement at a later date to eliminate high costs of the lawyer? sorry we are trying to make this a cost effective as possible unfortunately

To clarify, he was a single dad when his child was born and his child is now 8. He has never been in a relationship with the mother of his child.

Due to the "typical dads never win in court" and also the fee's he has always been reluctant to go down this route and has usually just waited for things to pass or give in to her demands. This site has been so helpful in showing him it is possible, he is not alone and he can get a good outcome. Especially where, at this point, he has no choice but to. Hopefully this will work in his favor and stop all the games she has been playing over the years.

The no comment is such a gem and who would have thought? again, a big credit to the dads on here with the information sharing.

We will proceed with the c100 and see the outcome from CAFASS. Perhaps she will shock us and play ball but we are not counting on this at all and preparing for worst case scenario
 
Welcome @Missymiss
Fellow supporter of a dad here. There are a few other women on the forum in our boat.
After years of being in this position, my advice on helping your partner is this:
1) let him talk/vent about the situation and just listen.
2) Offer advice if he asks for it. Ask if he'd like help with filling in court forms and writing up other documents. Help him proof read them.
3) Let him know you believe him and you back him 100%. This process will be the most stressful and lonely thing your partner will go through. He may have friends or family doubt him. Be his rock.
4) When he has down days let him wallow for a bit. When he shows signs of feeling better really encourage him to keep going.
5) Let him lead with what he wants to do. Us women can sometimes feel we need to protect our partners and control the situation. It's his kid(s) and ex so it's his battle.
6) Don't let this consume your relationship. Find time to have fun together and plan things.
7) If you don't already, do a lot of walking in your spare time to clear your heads or hash out problems.
8) Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

In terms of the exchange of bad words between your partner and his ex, don't worry too much. Let her rant and rave to cafcass. If your partner must address it, he can say "Like most couples when they separate we did exchange some not so nice words but it wasn't in front of our child (hopefully it wasn't?) and since then we've kept communication child focused". The courts aren't bothered about a bit of name calling. She may well make false allegations of DV but if she doesn't have proof like police or GP reports it'll probably just be dismissed.

Also the attached has good advice

Hi! thanks for the welcome :)

This is sound advice so thank you very much.

On the note of the bad words, to clarify they were never together so im guessing perhaps along the lines of “ Like some co parenting relationships, disagreements have caused us to exchange not so nice words but it has never been infront of our child” would this be okay?

I have asked him if it has been in front of child and he said it never has. They haven’t had any face to face interaction in almost 2 years. She has been in another relationship for the past 3 years so he has maintained distance based on this too. Their child is 8 and when they were about 6 they simply let them run down the flats and meet dad rather than collect them from the door. The exchange of kind words would be over messages/emails which he also has copies of her doing the same. We understand that we should avoid bringing this up at all cost.
 
On the note of the bad words, to clarify they were never together so im guessing perhaps along the lines of “ Like some co parenting relationships, disagreements have caused us to exchange not so nice words but it has never been infront of our child” would this be okay?
Yes, it can just be adapted to your suggestion.
There's other dad's on this site who were never in a relationship with the mother.
 
Hi Ash,

I can not thank you enough, this is so detailed and informative.

We have saved this in our shared folder to look back on when we reach each point.

6) First hearing (FHDRA) - opportunity for agreement and consent order (consent order unlikely unless both have lawyers). - on this point, a consent order is the legal order right which is why if no lawyer is present it's not possible? if they do come to an agreement is there a way to legalise the agreement at a later date to eliminate high costs of the lawyer? sorry we are trying to make this a cost effective as possible unfortunately

To clarify, he was a single dad when his child was born and his child is now 8. He has never been in a relationship with the mother of his child.

Due to the "typical dads never win in court" and also the fee's he has always been reluctant to go down this route and has usually just waited for things to pass or give in to her demands. This site has been so helpful in showing him it is possible, he is not alone and he can get a good outcome. Especially where, at this point, he has no choice but to. Hopefully this will work in his favor and stop all the games she has been playing over the years.

The no comment is such a gem and who would have thought? again, a big credit to the dads on here with the information sharing.

We will proceed with the c100 and see the outcome from CAFASS. Perhaps she will shock us and play ball but we are not counting on this at all and preparing for worst case scenario
Yes a consent order is a legal Child Arrangements Order. It just says "by consent" as opposed to the court ordering it. You can actually have a consent order without going to court, if both sides agree, but it does mean both sides having a solicitor. One to write up the order, the other to approve the order wording. Then it's sent to court for sealing and it's then a legal order.

However it's reaching agreement that is the issue and the court process is geared to helping achieve agreement along the way. It's unlikely agreement would be reached at FHDRA without lawyers to negotiate/thrash things out/threaten each other with things like "well if you don't agree xyz we will do xyz" and so on.

So the other option is just accept there'll be no agreement at the first hearing and let it go to a final hearing - when the court decides what should be ordered (after seeing evidence and statements from both sides and cross examination of each party on their statements).

These decisions are hard as they are expensive. No one knows whether having a barrister at the first hearing will prevent things going any further and save time and costs. Or whether it will just be an additional barrister cost to that of final hearing. But having a barrister at the first hearing will help prevent delays and problems and can avoid a Section 7 report.

@nothernsoul might give some tips there. and also @winger if he's around.
 
It's an absolutely minefield really.

Looking back at my own matter now I really feel that the order by consent might work out best in the long term.

I had a discussion with my barrister about her own experiences and she said that quite often the process of cross examinations leads to a lot of bad blood between mother and father as lies are exposed and one party comes out a winner and the loser holds that bitterness.

If there is any way you can order by consent as soon as possible I'd recommend you do.

Make a list of your non negotiables and I wouldn't be prepared to budge on these but if there are a few things you could negotiate order then from least important to most important and see if you can come to an agreement.

Feel free to message me if I can help at all
 
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