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Submitting Evidence - Text, Voice, Video - Any ideas?

MagicJ

MagicJ

Experienced member
Member
All,

Just a quick one to canvas people's experiences.

If one wishes to submit evidence to court that is in any of the following formats - is it recommended & if so, how best to do it?

WHATSAPP / SMS
EMAIL
VOICE
VIDEO

Thought it would be good to get all our experiences on these types of submissions in one place

Thanks in Advance!

MJ :giggle:
 
Peanut 21 said:
Voice and video are frowned upon. They're not seen as fair. Especially if the person is unaware they're being recorded.
Anything written is best.
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What about voice notes that were recorded by the other party themselves? Like them sending you voicenotes or your child sending you voicenotes. Its not something steathily recorded.

Anyway do you know how they can be presented to the courts? Chats, emails, voicenotes etc?
 
My Solicitor said courts really dont' like things like video and audio (In fact it can annoy them) - they prefer documentary evidence.

The Question to ask is - what is the point of videos and audio recordings? Who are the recordings of? Presumably the ex. They certainly don't like recordings of kids. If it's to try and prove the ex did or said something - well it probably still won't do that because they could say - the recording depends on the context at the time.

Your final statement is your evidence - things you say in that need to be backed up by evidence - exhibits - eg documents.
 
Ash said:
Your final statement is your evidence - things you say in that need to be backed up by evidence - exhibits - eg documents.
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This above, plesse take note Dads.

IME, throughout the entire journey, mountains of paper in the form of reports by SWs (for eg) assessments by psychologists (for eg), medical records for all involved (for eg) are produced.....this collection easily exceeds 1,000 pages and way beyond.

And do you know what? None of it is ever likely to surface in a DRA or even a FH. Sure, after (for eg) a S7 Report, the next Hearing will focus on the author's recommendations......but that will be just one or perhaps two pages of what (for me) was a S7 report stretched to 54 pages in total.

That was Court appearane #4 of nine by the end. And never was anything in that report ever referred to again.

I've written before that whenever any of us gets delivered 'something'' (report/assessment/etc), it's always better to read once and then do nothing until at least one or two sleeps later. The harshness of the words used, which are usually framed as Mother 'angel'/Father 'devil" can be devastating. And because we love our children dearly the devastation effect is magnified.

But, the fact is this. They are only words and when it comes to Court they are by- passed. I know this is counter intuitive but the system is not built on normality, common sense and intuition. Adversarial actions never are.

And so that report, that assessment, whatever.....it just adds to the mountain of paper that never ever gets seen again.

My point is this: please Dads, do not get hung up on this txt, this message, this action, this.....whatever.....from the Ex. Cos it'll never see the light of day.

Too many times I see 'she's done this' and I've told my Sol' or ' this is great evidence to show what she's like'. I understand......but please see the big picture.

And take note of Ash above.

SS.
 
WHATSAPP / SMS / EMAIL

Export to/print as pdf with full date and time info

VOICE
VIDEO

Share using WeTransfer

You can make a transcript yourself, but I would use one of the companies that do transcripts of hearings

I am not saying what one should do, just how I have seen it done.
 
StayStrong said:
This above, plesse take note Dads.

IME, throughout the entire journey, mountains of paper in the form of reports by SWs (for eg) assessments by psychologists (for eg), medical records for all involved (for eg) are produced.....this collection easily exceeds 1,000 pages and way beyond.

And do you know what? None of it is ever likely to surface in a DRA or even a FH. Sure, after (for eg) a S7 Report, the next Hearing will focus on the author's recommendations......but that will be just one or perhaps two pages of what (for me) was a S7 report stretched to 54 pages in total.

That was Court appearane #4 of nine by the end. And never was anything in that report ever referred to again.

I've written before that whenever any of us gets delivered 'something'' (report/assessment/etc), it's always better to read once and then do nothing until at least one or two sleeps later. The harshness of the words used, which are usually framed as Mother 'angel'/Father 'devil" can be devastating. And because we love our children dearly the devastation effect is magnified.

But, the fact is this. They are only words and when it comes to Court they are by- passed. I know this is counter intuitive but the system is not built on normality, common sense and intuition. Adversarial actions never are.

And so that report, that assessment, whatever.....it just adds to the mountain of paper that never ever gets seen again.

My point is this: please Dads, do not get hung up on this txt, this message, this action, this.....whatever.....from the Ex. Cos it'll never see the light of day.

Too many times I see 'she's done this' and I've told my Sol' or ' this is great evidence to show what she's like'. I understand......but please see the big picture.

And take note of Ash above.

SS.
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Great insight here SS.

Definitely hard not to see the relevance until I magine you've been through the organ grinder and look back from the otherside.

Noted with Thanks
 
Ash said:
My Solicitor said courts really dont' like things like video and audio (In fact it can annoy them) - they prefer documentary evidence.

The Question to ask is - what is the point of videos and audio recordings? Who are the recordings of? Presumably the ex. They certainly don't like recordings of kids. If it's to try and prove the ex did or said something - well it probably still won't do that because they could say - the recording depends on the context at the time.

Your final statement is your evidence - things you say in that need to be backed up by evidence - exhibits - eg documents.
Click to expand...
@Ash I get what you mean but i just think sometimes these solicitors are lazy and don't want to go through the hassle. If someone is blatantly telling a lie against you in court that they left you because of domestic abuse and you have some voice note from them that clearly shows otherwise, that they were literally begging you to stay in the relationship and were desperate for you to marry them, I would be surprised why a solicitor would not want that voice note heard by a judge. It will show that the ex is a liar make it easier for you to exonerate yourself I would imagine.
 
I think she was correct - she also said courts don't like photos as evidence and everything is very text based. A final hearing is all words basically - cross examination, verbal submissions, questioning peoples' statements - it's a format.

And at the back of it all - it's about the kids. So the parent who comes across well is the one who doesn't mud sling about the ex and is child focused and positive about co parenting. Which is what courts want. They see it as harmful for kids if both parents are accusing each other.

So really it's about a constructed paper argument, to persuade a Judge, but using "evidence" to back up what you say. So for example if you say - "I believe my son would very much benefit from an order where he can spend half the time with each parent as he loves both homes and both parents and has routines and familiarity at my home. However, making arrangements with his Mother has proved very difficult - see exhibit a."

Exhibit a) may be an email or text conversation where you're politely asking to agree holiday dates and ex is responding with a ranting abusive things and accusing you of things.

That just shows how hostile and difficult she is and why it's not possible to make arrangements and why there needs to be a court order. It doesn't really matter what she's said in the email because by then you're at final hearing and any welfare issues dismissed. Although you do need to choosem your "evidence" pieces carefully.

What so many people get hung up on is feeling they need to defend allegations against them. You don't. The ex has to prove them. And once you get to final hearing you have been "cleared". So then it's about arguments for what is the best order and why and how it would benefit the children.
 
Ash said:
What so many people get hung up on is feeling they need to defend allegations against them. You don't. The ex has to prove them. And once you get to final hearing you have been "cleared". So then it's about arguments for what is the best order and why and how it would benefit the children.
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Again - precisely this. It's about the big picture Dad's. It's about being able to step back, breathe and foremost preserve your dignity.

SS.
 
An ex's final statement is often full of nastiness, allegations and mud slinging. With no evidence. But don't worry - that just makes her look bad.
 
Ash said:
An ex's final statement is often full of nastiness, allegations and mud slinging. With no evidence. But don't worry - that just makes her look bad.
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Yep - full of "sound and fury, signifying nothing". 14 pages worth, single spaced, 11 pt font, top/bottom margins squeezed until an ink printer squeeked.....

....and it was never referred to at FH.

Signified nothing.

(Thanks to William Shakespeare for this post ;-)

SS.
 
Resolute said:
WHATSAPP / SMS / EMAIL

Export to/print as pdf with full date and time info

VOICE
VIDEO

Share using WeTransfer

You can make a transcript yourself, but I would use one of the companies that do transcripts of hearings

I am not saying what one should do, just how I have seen it done.
Click to expand...
Ah so you can make transcript of audio instead and keep the recording in the back pocket if required?

Ie here is a transcript I have from a phone call on xxx date pertaining to xxx, I have the audio recording if required.

So the ex can dispute it if she wants but risks being shown to be a liar if it was requested?
 
Pj66 said:
Ah so you can make transcript of audio instead and keep the recording in the back pocket if required?

Ie here is a transcript I have from a phone call on xxx date pertaining to xxx, I have the audio recording if required.

So the ex can dispute it if she wants but risks being shown to be a liar if it was requested?
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But @Pj66 , this is the precise point I am making. It isn't worth your time including audio or whatever, let alone transcribing something.

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

SS.
 
StayStrong said:
But @Pj66 , this is the precise point I am making. It isn't worth your time including audio or whatever, let alone transcribing something.

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

SS.
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What If the allegation is "you abused the child" but the recording said " I know you'd never put your hands on xx or anything like that"

Surely that would signify something?
 
The points are - it doesn't matter what she says. She has to prove it. If she can't prove it, it's dismissed. An ex will say all kinds of bad stuff. The most important thing for a Dad is to ignore it and only say child focused things. That makes you the better parent and her look like the hostile one. If you get defensive or accuse back, you're classed as hostile to each other.
 
Court won't really consider evidence unless it is a contested hearing i.e. FFH or final hearing.

Before either of those you would usually enter a witness statement as your evidence.

Anything spoken can be transcribed and exhibited to your witness statement. Whatsapp, email, sms etc you can just get a photo of it and exhibit it to your witness statement. Video, depends what you're trying to prove and what the evidence is; you could either grab a few screenshots if the evidence is visual or transcribe the audio and attach those to your witness statement.

Then in your witness statement say the evidence is available should the Court wish to see it.
 
And like Ash says "The most important thing for a Dad is to ignore it and only say child focused things."

My mantra is: 2023, my child, reasonable

Witness statement would be:

"Applican't Respondent alleges X, there is evidence to the contrary and I draw the Court's attention to Exhibit JS1." [use your initials for the exhibits so if your name is John Smith they are marked in numerical order JS1, JS2 etc.

Don't dwell on it, take all the emotion out of it. Pure facts and evidence. And nice and succinct.

Then focus on the child and how you're doing what's best for your child.
 
Many years ago when i applied for a Non Molestation order against my ex i was asked during the first hearing how i would present CCTV from my home as evidence.
I said recorded onto an iPad and will submit copies on flash drives for the court and the ex's solicitor at the time.
 
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