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Second Hearing

DB2021 said:
All I can do is try to appeal and go from there.

Trying leaves me no worse off but I really appreciate your advice resolute it’s good to see things from other perspectives.

And you may be right and if I’ve taken the chance to appeal away from myself then I’ll just have to accept that. I was under so much pressure had no one to support me so judge was easily able to walk all over me.
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An appeal is one route. If that route is not available, you can take another route. There is no need to even think about giving up. You will prevail.

If your ex was not represented, you will get an order written by the judge. This should mean a good chance of the order clearly stating that efforts must be made to promote child's relationship with father. You can be before another judge within 6 months if there is no progress.

Your case is still very strong. Today does not change that.
 
Resolute said:
An appeal is one route. If that route is not available, you can take another route. There is no need to even think about giving up. You will prevail.

If your ex was not represented, you will get an order written by the judge. This should mean a good chance of the order clearly stating that efforts must be made to promote child's relationship with father. You can be before another judge within 6 months if there is no progress.

Your case is still very strong. Today does not change that.
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I hope so Resolute.

But sadly just because the judge said that doesn’t mean he will write it tbh I need to wait and see what the orders says but then again when I appeal it may not matter.

It’s just going to take me time to process it all but I’ll get there. I’ve been put through this for the last 4 years and I’m still standing so I know my strength is there
 
Good find.

This might help too - Family Procedure Rules - Overriding Objective 1.1

"The overriding objective

1.1​

(1) These rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly,having regard to any welfare issues involved.
(2) Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable –
(a) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly;
(b) dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate to the nature, importance and complexity of the issues;
(c) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;
(d) saving expense; and
(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the court's resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases."

Particularly (c)
 
Ash said:
Good find.

This might help too - Family Procedure Rules - Overriding Objective 1.1

"The overriding objective

1.1​

(1) These rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly,having regard to any welfare issues involved.
(2) Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable –
(a) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly;
(b) dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate to the nature, importance and complexity of the issues;
(c) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;
(d) saving expense; and
(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the court's resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases."

Particularly (c)
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I would also say B in fact more so B than any of the others.

I don’t believe he dealt with the importance nor the complexity of the issues at all just too sw’s words as fact and that was the end of that.
 
Your head must be spinning DB after such a grueling day. Looks like the good guys on here have done their stuff and given you hope and great advice. It's obvious from your posts that you are a fighter. Take stock, be kind to yourself, re group tomorrow and fight on! Sending you some positivity over the air waves bro.
 
Dirge said:
Your head must be spinning DB after such a grueling day. Looks like the good guys on here have done their stuff and given you hope and great advice. It's obvious from your posts that you are a fighter. Take stock, be kind to yourself, re group tomorrow and fight on! Sending you some positivity over the air waves bro.
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My head is battered tbh and wouldn’t wish going through what I have today on anyone.

But yes everyone on here has been brilliant as they always are. I’ve got a long way to go to recover from this but I know I’ll get there.

I am it’s just getting harder and harder but when your against the system and a judge who is utterly shocking you don’t have much of a chance.

But thanx mate I appreciate your kind words I’ll go again with one last shot of an appeal.
 
'True courage is like a kite, a contrary wind raises it higher'

@DB2021 , your journey is as an inspiration that stands an example on the true strength of Dad's, you didn't stop then & you haven't stopped now.

They will always have everything to loose & you will always have them looking over their shoulders until she is an adult, wondering when you will next be coming over the hill!

Use the recharge then use our help as you always have - Much Love Brother
 
I think this is correct isn't it?

1) No safeguarding phone call or letter
2) No contact order
3) No full investigation into why child is behaving like this - just the social worker report.
4) No evidence seen from the applicant.

The first two don't add up and might also be a legal point for grounds for appeal.
 
Ash said:
1) No safeguarding phone call or letter
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This bit is especially concerning.

It would be powerful if the choice that was offered is in a transcript. A complete refusal to hear both sides.

Another potential basis for appeal, from the welfare checklist:

"A court, in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (4)(a) or (7), is as respects each parent within subsection (6)(a) to presume, unless the contrary is shown, that involvement of that parent in the life of the child concerned will further the child's welfare."
 
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Ash said:
I think this is correct isn't it?

1) No safeguarding phone call or letter
2) No contact order
3) No full investigation into why child is behaving like this - just the social worker report.
4) No evidence seen from the applicant.

The first two don't add up and might also be a legal point for grounds for appeal.
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1) There was a safeguarding call from Cafcass before first hearing, no letter as Cafcass said sw was in better position to deal with things due to previous involvement.

2) Yes said he wouldn’t order any contact and was suspending previous order made in Nov 2022. But said for ex and professionals to encourage little one to see me and it’s for her to decide if that ever happens.

3) yes no real effort to investigate anything sw from very beginning didn’t believe or entertain the idea that there was more to this than little one just doesn’t want to see me. And as things went on her view was I was the problem. But sw report was taken as evidence and fact and only evidence judge was interested in. “Who am I going to believe a respected sw or you” pretty much his words.

4) Told me I couldn’t produce evidence if I took it to final hearing.

I was given pretty much no option but to accept what judge said and he was not interested at all in anything I had to say or what I’d wrote in my position statement.

Sw had clerk speak with judge to press her views before the hearing and also spent the time before the hearing supporting ex her words.
 
He very much implied that forcing little one to see me or to have anybody else look into the situation was bad for little ones welfare and I should just accept that this is the situation as bad as it may be
 
DB2021 said:
. But said for ex and professionals to encourage little one to see me and it’s for her to decide if that ever happens
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I hate this so much. They never ever encourage the child. It's not in their best interests to and the child is too influenced.
 
Peanut 21 said:
Please forgive my language but I'm going to call that judge what he is. A bellend of the highest order.
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Tbh Peanut your being very generous with that.

As I could call him a lot worse. It’s so sad that male judges are still so biased towards mums it’s beyond me how they sleep at night doing what this judge did to me yesterday.

But as many of us are aware the courts love to leave a child with the abuser because that abuser is female yet whenever a man is accused of anything he’s scum of the earth.

Exactly I know unless I win an appeal I’ll not see my little girl for years if even ever again because this is what my ex has wanted all along and she has been supported all the way to get it.
 
Does anybody know which form I need to appeal?

I have found 2 but not sure which one I should be using.

N161 or FP161.

Just want to start filling the bits out ready.
 
I remember wondering this last time and couldn't remember which one it was but the information is here

"An N161 is used to appeal decisions in the lower court, for example if a case was before magistrates or a district judge, then you would use N161, which puts the case before a circuit judge. If you are appealing the decision of a circuit judge, then you need to use FP161, which is an appeal to the Family Division of the High Court."

From a solicitor on Just Answer.
 
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