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Query over order for FHDRA

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Flozinho

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I received a letter in the post from the court yesterday. It says children over the age of eight must attend the hearing and all documents must be sent electronically for the FHDRA.

The hearing is coming up in a couple of weeks.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Every document until now has been sent electronically to the Court and Cafcass. Receiving this by post was a surprise and it gives me less time to prepare or arrange for a possible direct access Barrister. Do you think I will have enough time to arrange?

2. The letter does not say what documents they need from me! Is it a position statement? Is it responding to Cafcass letter which on my side was completely child focused but ex had made false allegations?

I would really appreciate any advice you can give me. Many thanks :)
 
I think you said your child is under eight, so it is a bit odd. It might be a new thing for that particular court to say children under eight should attend FHDRA - in case they are going to attempt some kind of child centred dispute resolution. ie a standard thing for that court. But I have never heard of this before.

I think you'll have plenty of time to both send documents and find a direct access barrister for the hearing. You'll need a position statement for the hearing - unless the barrister is going to do one. Suggest you start on the position statement now, and when you instruct a barrister, send it to them asking for their approval of it (or any suggestions). Some barristers will say they will do their own, from the information you give them - others will say it's fine just submit and then inform the court before the hearing that I will be representing you. Sometimes this is done as late as the day before the hearing. Or the barrister might inform the court they will be representing you.

What was the conclusion at the end of the Cafcass letter/recommendation - if any? Regardless of what the letter says (it reports what the Mother says and what the Father says, but ends with Cafcass thoughts and recommendations to the court usually) - it is the bit at the end that is important, as that indicates whether or not they believe what the ex has said or are ignoring the allegations.

I'll see what others have to say.
 
Hi @Flozinho

I have booked 3-4 barristers so far, mainly through the Solicitor.

What I can tell you is that, usually, there are 3 components, you are almost at the hearing so I will tailor this accordingly:

- The instruction, what you want & what it will cover
The Barrister is usually therefore before the start of the hearing & you will meet up with them, you will be on a List of Cases for the day, so if you are lucky then the hearing is later in the day so you have time to chat in full with your Barrister.

if you would like to meet them before hand, you could suggest they meet you an hour earlier in a local coffee shop, albeit you may get charged for this (150-250 plus VAT)

Your instruction would be something like, I would like a DAB for a 1 hour FHDRA in the Family Court, I will meet the Barrister at X time.

- There is a DEEMED DATE which is when fee needs to be paid.
Make sure you are clear on this so that you pay them with cleared funds on time otherwise they will not chase for funds & you will not have representation. At this point, they will likely say funds are due now but if you need a bit of time just ask to pay it a few days or max a week before the hearing.

- The Position Statement
Once you have written this include print 3 copies & bring it with you to court plus send a copy to the Barrister, they will need to read it before they get into court. They can also exchange it on your behalf on the day, either digitally or using the three copies you take with you.

Just a quick note here, the PS can also be written by the Barrister for a small fee, usually same as a 1-2 hour meeting with them. However I am not sure you have sufficient time to brief the Barrister on your situation sufficiently before this hearing to enable them to compose - it's something to think about for the next hearing.

- HAGGLE
Every time I have booked, I have taken the price they've given me & just gone, it's a straight forward hearing, there are no additional case notes, it's only 1 hour, can you do this for £X & I've had a 50% success rate.

Be aware that a Barrister who is free this close to a hearing is likely to miss out on work, so they are more likely to reduce the cost slightly to get it - only do this if you actually intend to book that particular DAB

-CASE NOTES
If there is anything extra that you feel is relevant but hasn't been put in the PS, I would suggest collate it in a timeline order into a word document, call it case notes & send it to the DAB ahead of time so that they are fully briefed.

I hope that all helps :)
 
My experience has been that they want payment at the time of booking and after that they will give you the barrister's email and you can email them directly and send any documents to them. They tend to be extremely brief with responses as they are very busy people and need to think a lot to prepare for hearings. So it helps to be concise. Eg send one email with anything attached you think they should see. What I used to do was write a summary of the situation for the barrister, the concerns etc and what I was hoping to achieve and attach that as one of the documents sent to them. And also send your position statement. In the summary at the end you could say "I have drafted a position statement for the hearing, unless you were intending to do one". Even if they decide to do their own position statement, yours will be useful for them to see the issues.

It's probably not worth paying for a separate consultation first, for an FHDRA - they can work most of it out from the documents you send, maybe have one or two emails and then chat with you on the morning of the hearing - it's best to arrange to meet them at least one hour before the hearing time.
 
Ash said:
I think you said your child is under eight, so it is a bit odd. It might be a new thing for that particular court to say children under eight should attend FHDRA - in case they are going to attempt some kind of child centred dispute resolution. ie a standard thing for that court. But I have never heard of this before.

I think you'll have plenty of time to both send documents and find a direct access barrister for the hearing. You'll need a position statement for the hearing - unless the barrister is going to do one. Suggest you start on the position statement now, and when you instruct a barrister, send it to them asking for their approval of it (or any suggestions). Some barristers will say they will do their own, from the information you give them - others will say it's fine just submit and then inform the court before the hearing that I will be representing you. Sometimes this is done as late as the day before the hearing. Or the barrister might inform the court they will be representing you.

What was the conclusion at the end of the Cafcass letter/recommendation - if any? Regardless of what the letter says (it reports what the Mother says and what the Father says, but ends with Cafcass thoughts and recommendations to the court usually) - it is the bit at the end that is important, as that indicates whether or not they believe what the ex has said or are ignoring the allegations.

I'll see what others have to say.
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Thanks Ash

Cafcass letter last section states the following:
The advice to the court
• Cafcass has referred both parties to attend Planning Together For Children, Mr XXXXX has completed his attendance at the time of writing
• As abusive communications are disputed, Statements from parties to be ordered, including supporting documentation
• Undertakings may be proportionate moving forwards, to establish an expectation of positive communication and the cessation of discriminatory opinions / comments
• The matter should be listed for a hearing when Cafcass are present and can assist the parents if agreement is possible
• If there is no agreement, the court may wish to list the matter for a contested hearing
• The parents could consider accessing the Cafcass Co-Parent Hub, this resource provides families with clear information and useful online tools to help negotiate child arrangements, and sustain effective co-parenting relationships, in the best interests of their children.
In the absence of any current safeguarding concerns, there would appear to be no further role for Cafcass beyond the first hearing. The case will shortly thereafter be closed to Cafcass unless otherwise directed.
 
That all sounds fairly standard and positive. They are basically saying there are no safeguarding concerns - and that if things aren't resolved at the FHDRA then it goes to a final hearing with statements and evidence. Which is a standard thing. No fact finding is mentioned. They are seeing courses as a possible way of making parents more child focused.

So at FHDRA they will see if you can agree things for a consent order - lawyers and Cafcass might try and help broker agreements. If no agreement then it goes to a final hearing with statements and evidence.
 
Ash said:
That all sounds fairly standard and positive. They are basically saying there are no safeguarding concerns - and that if things aren't resolved at the FHDRA then it goes to a final hearing with statements and evidence. Which is a standard thing. No fact finding is mentioned. They are seeing courses as a possible way of making parents more child focused.

So at FHDRA they will see if you can agree things for a consent order - lawyers and Cafcass might try and help broker agreements. If no agreement then it goes to a final hearing with statements and evidence.
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Thanks Ash. So at the FHDRA do I need to provide a statement with evidence to counter her false claims?
 
No because Cafcass can't order that - only a court or Judge can order that. So Cafcass are just recommending that the court orders statements and evidence - assuming the matters aren't resolved by agreement at the FHDRA :)

So any future orders for statements and evidence would be ordered at the FHDRA for later.

You can, however, submit a position statement for any hearing. It's much more informal than a full statement with evidence and more of a note to the Judge. In it you can "update the position" since the application or Cafcass interviews and add anything else you want to say, and ask for what you want in an interim order. However sometimes interim orders aren't made unless agreed at the hearing.

So FHDRA is often mainly just a hearing to get interim arrangements sorted, pending a final hearing. Sometimes, lawyers can thrash out a consent order and it go no further than FHDRA. But it sounds like your ex might not budge.
 
If you look at the heading it says "Advice to the court" - so it is Cafcass recommending to the court what they think should happen next. At FHDRA. That doesn't mean the court will always do what Cafcass recommends either.
 
Ash said:
No because Cafcass can't order that - only a court or Judge can order that. So Cafcass are just recommending that the court orders statements and evidence - assuming the matters aren't resolved by agreement at the FHDRA :)

So any future orders for statements and evidence would be ordered at the FHDRA for later.

You can, however, submit a position statement for any hearing. It's much more informal than a full statement with evidence and more of a note to the Judge. In it you can "update the position" since the application or Cafcass interviews and add anything else you want to say, and ask for what you want in an interim order. However sometimes interim orders aren't made unless agreed at the hearing.

So FHDRA is often mainly just a hearing to get interim arrangements sorted, pending a final hearing. Sometimes, lawyers can thrash out a consent order and it go no further than FHDRA. But it sounds like your ex might not budge.
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Thanks. Yes ex will not budge. She even refuses to let my son go on holiday with me out of spite. I was hoping to get at least an interim order to allow holiday time as who knows when the final hearing will be scheduled for. I waited nearly 4 months for the first hearing!
I have drafted a position statement where I briefly address her false allegations. Are you suggesting I should remove that part?
 
I think a position statement could do to be more child focused but possibly deny any allegations. I can have a look if you like. If you're using a DAB then I'm sure they'll have a good go at getting interim time for you, but it might end up having to be supervised.
 
The reasoning being - let the ex make her allegations, but just deny them - it's up to her to prove them and Cafcass have clearly dismissed them as they haven't recommended a fact find :)

So try to focus on what you want to say to the court about your child, why they would benefit from an order and interim order, that kind of thing. The allegations have basically been dismissed by Cafcass.
 
Ash said:
I think a position statement could do to be more child focused but possibly deny any allegations. I can have a look if you like. If you're using a DAB then I'm sure they'll have a good go at getting interim time for you, but it might end up having to be supervised.
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My son is already staying overnights two days a week. I am asking for equal live with order 2-2-5-5.

Are 3 and a half pages too long?
 
Ok so you already have interim time :) I expect an interim order would continue with the same time you have now - and this is probably why the ex's allegations have been ignored - if she's been allowing time with your son and overnights, they won't take her allegations seriously.

The final hearing is where you get to have a full statement and evidence asking for the 2-2-5-5. In the unlikely event that your barrister manages to negotiate 2-2-5-5 at FHDRA then a consent order could be done on the day. But that is something to be prepared for = what if, during negotiations, your ex agreed to "lives with both parents" and shared care, but less than 50/50? So you need to go to FHDRA with a "bottom line". ie what is the least you'd accept for a final order. If that can't be agreed then you say no and it goes to a final hearing.

My bottom line was "lives with both parents". Which my ex wouldn't agree to so it went to a final hearing.
 
Ash said:
Ok so you already have interim time :) I expect an interim order would continue with the same time you have now - and this is probably why the ex's allegations have been ignored - if she's been allowing time with your son and overnights, they won't take her allegations seriously.

The final hearing is where you get to have a full statement and evidence asking for the 2-2-5-5. In the unlikely event that your barrister manages to negotiate 2-2-5-5 at FHDRA then a consent order could be done on the day. But that is something to be prepared for = what if, during negotiations, your ex agreed to "lives with both parents" and shared care, but less than 50/50? So you need to go to FHDRA with a "bottom line". ie what is the least you'd accept for a final order. If that can't be agreed then you say no and it goes to a final hearing.

My bottom line was "lives with both parents". Which my ex wouldn't agree to so it went to a final hearing.
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My bottom line is 2-2-5-5. I feel it is in my son's best interest. It is his right to be raised by both parents and not to be alienated against his dad. I truly believe that I need to be there for him before it is too late.
 
Ash said:
Ok so you already have interim time :) I expect an interim order would continue with the same time you have now - and this is probably why the ex's allegations have been ignored - if she's been allowing time with your son and overnights, they won't take her allegations seriously.

The final hearing is where you get to have a full statement and evidence asking for the 2-2-5-5. In the unlikely event that your barrister manages to negotiate 2-2-5-5 at FHDRA then a consent order could be done on the day. But that is something to be prepared for = what if, during negotiations, your ex agreed to "lives with both parents" and shared care, but less than 50/50? So you need to go to FHDRA with a "bottom line". ie what is the least you'd accept for a final order. If that can't be agreed then you say no and it goes to a final hearing.

My bottom line was "lives with both parents". Which my ex wouldn't agree to so it went to a final hearing.
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What does "lives with both parents" as supposed to 50/50 mean for us?

I live 5 minutes away from son's school and 5 minutes walk from his mum's home.
 
Basically 50/50 would be lives with both parents, equal shared care. However you can also have "lives with both parents"/shared care with less than 50/50. Eg 6 nights out of 14 or 5 nights out of 14 (and half the holidays).

So if ex's side tried to negotiate at FHDRA and say ok we agree to lives with both parents/shared care but with more time with the Mother and 6 nights out of 14 with you, it's kind of a bird in the hand and could be a difficult situation - do you accept that for a consent order and be done with it, or do you go to final hearing, with the additional work and costs involved, to get the 50/50. I would probably agree with you, to stick out for the 50/50 and go to final hearing.
 
So if you're already getting 2 nights a week, then I'd suggest maybe focusing the interim hearing on getting holiday dates agreed between now and final hearing.
 
Ash said:
Basically 50/50 would be lives with both parents, equal shared care. However you can also have "lives with both parents"/shared care with less than 50/50. Eg 6 nights out of 14 or 5 nights out of 14 (and half the holidays).
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I understand. 6 nights out of 14 in only one day less every two weeks. I really don't see what good justification there can be for not letting a dad have 50/50 in that case.
 
Hey @Flozinho

Can I ask how old your son is please?

I currently have a CAO for 3 overnights per fortnight (plus half holidays) for my daughter, but am thinking of applying for a Variation (probably when she starts Primary school in September) to get 2-2-5-5 or 50/50.

So am trying to guage wether court might reject it as she is currently 4yrs old.
 
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