Preparing For Final Hearing (Finances)

[Unknown01]

Certainly isn't because I'm generous! I started at 50/50 under legal advice but was advised given we have young children and the marriage being considered a long marriage she will likely get the majority share. I want a clean break, I don't want to be paying spousal maintenance and because I don't pay child maintenance either (we have 50/50 shared care) and my salary is far greater than hers, I'd have to give up the majority of the equity.

The courts starting point in seeking a clean break was what is the smallest amount I'd need to secure a home, a small deposit plus legal fees so that equated to about 10% of the equity. With then 90% on the table for the ex, it was being questioned whether spousal was still required on top for a clean break!

My understanding is that no matter what you offer, their solicitor will always push them to ask for more. What their solicitor often tries to do is to create a status quo where the higher earner is paying for more than they should, in order to establish a precedent for spousal maintenance. Similarly, they will go after people who move out of the family home for maintenance pending suit to create the same precedent.

The best thing to do is to offer what you can figure out is reasonable based on past cases, your own legal advice and your own circumstances and if they don't agree then hold firm and push things to a final hearing, which is what you are doing and is the right course of action. Their solicitor is under a duty to act in the best interests of their client and might get severely reprimanded if they push things to a very expensive final hearing if there was a fair offer on the table, so they will most likely buckle just before the fees for a final hearing begin to ramp up.

 

[Jumper85]

how long was the marriage if you don’t mind me asking?

9 years however the courts take into consideration when you first cohabited, for the purposes of finances, that's the start date they use than rather when you were first married so my "marriage" is seen to be 13yrs from the courts perspective.

 

[Jumper85]

My understanding is that no matter what you offer, their solicitor will always push them to ask for more. What their solicitor often tries to do is to create a status quo where the higher earner is paying for more than they should, in order to establish a precedent for spousal maintenance. Similarly, they will go after people who move out of the family home for maintenance pending suit to create the same precedent.

The best thing to do is to offer what you can figure out is reasonable based on past cases, your own legal advice and your own circumstances and if they don't agree then hold firm and push things to a final hearing, which is what you are doing and is the right course of action. Their solicitor is under a duty to act in the best interests of their client and might get severely reprimanded if they push things to a very expensive final hearing if there was a fair offer on the table, so they will most likely buckle just before the fees for a final hearing begin to ramp up.

Thanks Unknown. I think the ex is now a LIP but she's had legal advice in the past and was represented by a DA Barrister at the FDR hearing and as you say, they pushed for some crazy amounts. I'm literally a month out now from the final hearing and legal costs are mounting up and still there is no sign of buckling from her so it will go to final at this rate.

What I've tried to explain over the recent months is as we get nearer to the final, my settlement offers won't be improving, they'll in fact be reducing because I can't afford the debt being incurred and my original offer to settle already considered the lowest sum I could walk away with to secure a new home.

 

[Unknown01]

Thanks Unknown. I think the ex is now a LIP but she's had legal advice in the past and was represented by a DA Barrister at the FDR hearing and as you say, they pushed for some crazy amounts. I'm literally a month out now from the final hearing and legal costs are mounting up and still there is no sign of buckling from her so it will go to final at this rate.

What I've tried to explain over the recent months is as we get nearer to the final, my settlement offers won't be improving, they'll in fact be reducing because I can't afford the debt being incurred and my original offer to settle already considered the lowest sum I could walk away with to secure a new home.

Very sensible approach. I'm doing the same with my wife. What they seem to forget is if they're going to get the lion's share of the net assets anyway, there's very little incentive for us not to spend the assets ensuring all future ties are severed.

 

[Jumper85]

Well a quick update for those that are interested. S.25 statements and disclosure is due to take place in a couple of days however I've heard nothing from the ex at all, it's been radio silence. I've recruited a DA barrister and shared all documentation with her along with having a F2F meeting for a few hours today, was really impressed with how much she'd read and absorbed from the pre-read documents and how over the couple of hours she's gone about forming a strategy. She equally was able to tear holes in the ex's documentation which gave me some great comfort that she'll crumble under cross examination.

She believes my offers to date have been generous, overly generous and has devised an alternative strategy with a view of moving away from the current 90/10 split that's been discussed under a without prejudice basis and what was proposed by her barrister in the FDR hearing and moving to a new starting point of 70/30.

So overall, really pleased having gone for the DA Barrister route. 4 weeks to go and counting!

 

[Ash]

Good stuff!

 

[capa]

That's good news @Jumper85
encouraging too

 

[Jumper85]

So that's disclosure completed for the 4th and final time! To no surprise, the ex has populated as much as she could in the conduct section, claiming all type of abuse from mental, physical, financial, etc and has suggested I've hidden money again. She's also told quite a few lies which of course my barrister will be questioning her on and now I've seen her statement, I will be spending the next couple of weeks to gather counter evidence to her claims! 3 more weeks and counting!

 

[Ash]

Hang in there

 

[Unknown01]

So that's disclosure completed for the 4th and final time! To no surprise, the ex has populated as much as she could in the conduct section, claiming all type of abuse from mental, physical, financial, etc and has suggested I've hidden money again. She's also told quite a few lies which of course my barrister will be questioning her on and now I've seen her statement, I will be spending the next couple of weeks to gather counter evidence to her claims! 3 more weeks and counting!

The problem with liars is that they don't tend to be very good at creating a consistent narrative. Once your barrister has picked her apart the judge won't believe a word she says. As long as you keep your cool in court, having a liar ex is incredibly useful.

 

[Unknown01]

Guessing the FH is this week or next? Good luck!

 

[Jumper85]

Friday this week! Many thanks for your good luck wishes and support.

I will ensure I share and pass on whatever learns I take from the court and the process leading up to it.

 

[Jumper85]

So my journey came to a close yesterday when the judge handed down her decision and agreed for me to apply for my final order to be formally divorced (which I expect to receive back Monday).

I was perhaps, once again following the court process for child arrangements, the court was fair and showed no level of bias towards the mother despite our significant disparity in income. The judge saw through all the conduct claims, claims of abuse, manipulation, control and shut the ex down numerous times that she was fully satisfied with all of my disclosure, how I've conducted myself in choosing to be an LIP up to final hearing to reduce costs. That she had faith in that my statement and background story of the marital finances seemed a very fair and accurate representation against hers and she had put absolutely no evidence forward to suggest otherwise.

The judge fully accepted that the debts I'd accrued over the past 2 years post separation as I continued to pay for both my own rent, the marital home and even a mortgage on an empty rental during a sale process which has caused hardship.

The continued waterworks didn't work in the court. Whilst the judge was extremely patient and talked the ex through the process she made it very clear that her expectations were too high, that she didn't feel a pension share was needed, that she didn't feel spousal maintenance would be awarded and that the case was about providing sufficient equity to her to purchase a home suitable for her and our boys. She was informed that her mortgage capacity would be taken into consideration and that she wouldn't a afforded a mortgage free home. The judge called a break and asked the ex to consider settlement prior to cross-examination and readjust expectations.

Fair to say that break was not utilised at all. No adjustment was made from the ex's side, they asked for an offer from us. My barrister kept her cool and informed them we weren't about to counter offer an offer we've already formally put forward and the judge asked their side to present and offer but nothing was presented.

After returning to court, the judge was quite angered about the update. The opportunity had since been lost their side. The judge (as I expected) fully utilised her whole mortgage capacity borrowing and gave her enough equity to purchase a home of the same value I presented. The judge agreed all debts were marital despite them being all in my sole name and awarded me equity to cover this as well as a small deposit. No pension share awarded however spousal was awarded of £400 per month for 3 years HOWEVER, the judge did put a level of protection in place for me. She stated as CMS isn't presently paid, if the ex was to attempt to claim and be successful, the spousal would reduce £1 for £1, basically meaning it would be pointless in her attempting to claim for the next 3 years (despite it being 50/50 lives with both parents).

I'm overjoyed, relieved and happy that a woman so greedy and that once bragged she would "fuck me over" and leave me with absolutely nothing has walked from court with only 60% of what she was asking for. More satisfyingly is that I actually offered her over £50,000 more to settle outside of court a month or so ago and she still refused.

Whilst this is a victory, I'm equally thinking of my children and what life they will lead. Regardless of the outcome, I'm determined to ensure that they are looked after financially and despite the outcome still proposed to cover all children's cost until 18.

 

[Unknown01]

That all sounds reasonably positive although if I had been the judge I would have awarded no spousal maintenance. Given the figure, I would try and have it capitalised for a clean break if you can. Also, presumably there is a bar on her trying to extend any spousal maintenance beyond 3 years?

 

[Jumper85]

Hi @Unknown01 - My barrister said it was a very positive outcome. We did take the opportunity to ask in court as to whether I could capitalise for a clean break however following the judge further explaining the terms of the spousal and the ex's preference (she wanted monthly payments) my barrister suggested accepting the spousal given there is a bar applied and it protects me from CMS too. I thought she'd get far more equity, so overall I'm pretty happy.

 

[Unknown01]

It's definitely reassuring that - at least in your case - the judge was determined to be fair. Out of interest, did the judge take any view on her earning capacity and set out any expectations in that regard? I recall she wasn't working full time.

The big sticking point in my divorce is that I have a recent graduate wife who is determined to do a low skilled, part time and term time only job and I'm hoping she gets told that's unrealistic and that she cannot expect to live off me or use my mortgage capacity indefinitely.

 

[Jumper85]

It's definitely reassuring that - at least in your case - the judge was determined to be fair. Out of interest, did the judge take any view on her earning capacity and set out any expectations in that regard? I recall she wasn't working full time.

The big sticking point in my divorce is that I have a recent graduate wife who is determined to do a low skilled, part time and term time only job and I'm hoping she gets told that's unrealistic and that she cannot expect to live off me or use my mortgage capacity indefinitely.

The judge absolutely took into consideration her earning capacity. The ex shot herself in the foot also by adding to her Form E that she wanted to build herself back up and potentially start a business again and that the stress of the proceedings and the stress I'd personally caused had prevented that. The judge agreed the ex could increase her earnings in the near future and that she should utilise her entire mortgage borrowing capacity. I think this is possibly why spousal was awarded for a period, acknowledging at the moment that she isn't fully working but she will in the near future.

I think for your case, it's dependable on the difference of potential earnings. If you ex is only earning £10,000 a year but she's a graduated in medicine for example, it's fair to say she could earn far greater, my challenge was I could only argue a £10,000 difference.

 

[Unknown01]

I don't know with my STBXW. She earns very, very little because she insists she needs to work part time and term time only. My solicitor thinks both her arguments are crap because she was a full time student for three years and was regularly attending lectures finishing at 6pm and also because I can demonstrably do half of the school holidays or more myself.

The other problem though is that it might not make that much difference to her net income because universal credit makes up a big chunk of her monthly income. However, meeting her earning capacity would mean she could easily have a big enough mortgage capacity to buy somewhere without needing to keep me named on her mortgage. I'm not sure how a court is going to look at that though, they don't seem all that savvy financially speaking.

If the worst comes to worst I might have to prove her earning capacity by "losing" my job and waiting either for the house to have to be sold or to see how much she can really earn when she needs to!