Potentially taking my son abroad and not coming back

[Maloney]

Hi all,

I’m currently living with my soon-to-be ex (STBX). We’re married with a 3.5-year-old child. Throughout the marriage, I’ve always been the primary caregiver. I work from home, so I’ve been heavily involved in our child’s daily routine—before and after nursery, bedtime, brushing his teeth, comforting him when upset, and more. He’s always gravitated toward me for these things and hasn’t once asked for her to put him to bed.

My STBX is aware this dynamic may work against her in court. Recently, she had me arrested on a false domestic violence claim, but the detective quickly saw through it and even sympathised with me.

We need to decide on a school for our son in January. I believe this will likely influence the judge to maintain stability and keep us in the area, while she’s trying to relocate. She’s suggested I have visitation every other weekend, but I’m pushing for 50/50 custody as a minimum.

Another concern is that she’s planning to visit her family in Europe for two weeks over Christmas. I’m worried she might use this trip to claim she can’t return due to “domestic violence” or another false allegation. If that happens, I fear it could take 6-12 months to resolve the situation in court, during which I wouldn’t see my son.

I’ve considered filing a prohibited steps order to prevent her from taking him abroad. However, I’m torn because doing so could provoke her to make further false accusations against me. While I’m not certain she would go to such extremes, the domestic violence allegation has made it clear she’s willing to take drastic measures.

To add to this, we haven’t started the D100 process yet. The divorce has only just been initiated, and I’ve received a letter from her solicitor proposing a financial agreement and the sale of the house. She earns significantly more than me, has greater savings, and a better pension (she works in finance). I plan to reject the financial agreement until child arrangements are finalised.

I’d really appreciate any advice on whether a prohibited steps order is the right move in this situation. I’m feeling stuck and unsure of the best way forward.

Thanks in advance for your help and I'm so glad I found this place.

 

[Roblox]

Hi and welcome

Given what you've explained I think you should consider the order. Some on the forum are quite knowledgeable on this subject @Ash

 

[Scotay]

I had an inkling years ago my ex, and inlaws, were going to remove my daughter to their home in France.

A free meeting with a solicitor advised me to get down to the court ASAP and get a without hearing PS right away that day, which i did as this was their plan all along to do.

 

[Maloney]

Thanks, I think I’ll have to risk more allegations against me, for peace of mind that I won’t have to battle for him when he is in a different country

 

[Scotay]

Thanks, I think I’ll have to risk more allegations against me, for peace of mind that I won’t have to battle for him when he is in a different country

I suggest you get some free legal advice and I'm 100% sure that will be to get a Prohibitive Steps Order to stop any relocation out the country as she is a flight risk.
To hell with any further allegations because allegations are all they are.

If she leaves the kid in another country that makes anything you want to arrange 1000 times harder.

 

[bujanin]

Thanks, I think I’ll have to risk more allegations against me, for peace of mind that I won’t have to battle for him when he is in a different country

PSO is the way forward. To say that you'd have a battle is an understatement. And 6-12 months is pretty optimistic, depending on the country.

 

[mikeayo1891]

Thanks, I think I’ll have to risk more allegations against me, for peace of mind that I won’t have to battle for him when he is in a different country

You have to act NOW! Else you might regret it. You already know that this person has made false DV allegations to the police. Means that they really hate your guts and would not mind you getting into trouble. I know its hard cos you will have compassion for her and still see her as that girl you fell in love with who wont hurt a fly. Trust me that girl is gone. Its survival of the fittest now. You have to get that into your head. She also knows that she will be losing money to you in the divorce settlement. That makes her hate you more. Get that PSO in immediately and stop dithering else if she takes child abroad the child is likely to be alienated against you and you might not see child for the next 3 years. MY ex moved only 4 hours away from the London area and I still haven't managed to see child in 18 months despite child still in the UK. Act now with courage!

 

[Maloney]

You have to act NOW! Else you might regret it. You already know that this person has made false DV allegations to the police. Means that they really hate your guts and would not mind you getting into trouble. I know its hard cos you will have compassion for her and still see her as that girl you fell in love with who wont hurt a fly. Trust me that girl is gone. Its survival of the fittest now. You have to get that into your head. She also knows that she will be losing money to you in the divorce settlement. That makes her hate you more. Get that PSO in immediately and stop dithering else if she takes child abroad the child is likely to be alienated against you and you might not see child for the next 3 years. MY ex moved only 4 hours away from the London area and I still haven't managed to see child in 18 months despite child still in the UK. Act now with courage!

Thanks for the message bud.

I’m really sorry to hear that, I can’t even imagine how hard that must be. It makes my blood boil that someone could be so evil, stay strong, good will always prevail.

 

[Maloney]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I think I made a mistake of telling her today I’m not comfortable with her going, which has now, as expected, escalated things.

She is gearing up for her next move, she has made this clear. Time to brace myself.

Can I do a PSO myself, or shall I use a solicitor?

 

[mikeayo1891]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I think I made a mistake of telling her today I’m not comfortable with her going, which has now, as expected, escalated things.

She is gearing up for her next move, she has made this clear. Time to brace myself.

Can I do a PSO myself, or shall I use a solicitor?

You can do it yourself but make sure you do the paper one and say that you want an urgent one. You should take the paper one to the family court and ask, beg, demand, cajole, do everything for them to list it for an urgent next day hearing. But you will need some form of evidence such as she utterances and actions to point to that strongly suggests that she will not be coming back with the child after the holiday. If you are granted a hearing, at the hearing she will offer to give an undertaking to bring child back to the UK. If you have strong evidence against her and not just suspicion you should plead that a PSO should be ordered for everyone's peace of mind as it would be very expensive and onerous to get back the child from abroad using the "The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction" if ex does not abide by the undertaking. You will like the PSO to be ordered until child arrangement has been agreed.

 

[Maloney]

You can do it yourself but make sure you do the paper one and say that you want an urgent one. You should take the paper one to the family court and ask, beg, demand, cajole, do everything for them to list it for an urgent next day hearing. But you will need some form of evidence such as she utterances and actions to point to that strongly suggests that she will not be coming back with the child after the holiday. If you are granted a hearing, at the hearing she will offer to give an undertaking to bring child back to the UK. If you have strong evidence against her and not just suspicion you should plead that a PSO should be ordered for everyone's peace of mind as it would be very expensive and onerous to get back the child from abroad using the "The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction" if ex does not abide by the undertaking. You will like the PSO to be ordered until child arrangement has been agreed.

Thanks a lot for the message.

The only evidence I have is her saying she wants to move as far away from me as possible.

Obviously the false allegations have made me think she is capable of anything, but I’m guessing I can’t use that?

Will this just be thrown out based on the above?

Thanks again

 

[bujanin]

Thanks a lot for the message.

The only evidence I have is her saying she wants to move as far away from me as possible.

Obviously the false allegations have made me think she is capable of anything, but I’m guessing I can’t use that?

Will this just be thrown out based on the above?

Thanks again

Does the child have a British passport or one from the mother's country or both?

Does she have the passports?

I believe that she'd be considered a flight risk by the courts especially as she has suggested that she'd like to move the child abroad, didn't you say..

I didn't need to prove intent just a valid concern and it was issued.

 

[Maloney]

Does the child have a British passport or one from the mother's country or both?

Does she have the passports?

I believe that she'd be considered a flight risk by the courts especially as she has suggested that she'd like to move the child abroad, didn't you say..

I didn't need to prove intent just a valid concern and it was issued.

Yes, has a passport from each country and she has them both.

Got you, thank you so much for the advice, it’s truly appreciated.

 

[BrassTacks]

Interesting reading.

It may be good to get advice on what the judge will consider when making such a draconian order: eg google says:

• Risk of abduction
• Preventing immediate harm
• Significant changes in upbringing
• History of unreliable or irresponsible behaviour
• Disagreements on key decisions

The judge will have to consider all the evidence - then consider if it warrants such an extreme measure.

I had to make MULTIPLE specific issues applications to go on holiday with my little one: each time the cry wolf from the ex was the risk of international abduction, but each time the judge justifiably threw it aside and granted me the holiday.

 

[BrassTacks]

I don’t think the courts will take kindly to “her family live in France and I’m worried she’ll abduct her”.

Each party will be different and you know her best

Is there room for agreement before hand: eg a “contract” stating departure and return dates?

 

[Maloney]

I don’t think the courts will take kindly to “her family live in France and I’m worried she’ll abduct her”.

Each party will be different and you know her best

Is there room for agreement before hand: eg a “contract” stating departure and return dates?

I’ve a solicitor responding to her initial letter which is more financials based, however, he did say he will seek assurances in the letter that she will come back, but they won’t mean much if she doesn’t come back.

This is a tough one, as there is a genuine risk of her not coming back, and the impact will be huge. On the other hand if it gets rejected, I have poked the hornets nest.

 

[bujanin]

I’ve a solicitor responding to her initial letter which is more financials based, however, he did say he will seek assurances in the letter that she will come back, but they won’t mean much if she doesn’t come back.

This is a tough one, as there is a genuine risk of her not coming back, and the impact will be huge. On the other hand if it gets rejected, I have poked the hornets nest.

PSO's are not difficult to get issued if the circumstances are right and they are used widely for different reasons.

You stbx tried to have you arrested for dv! The hornets are already looking to bite you!
The pattern is very familiar. Might be time to get on the offensive and let go of the sentiments because she is unlikely to relent.

 

[Ash]

Hi - sorry I thought I'd already replied to this but clearly not

1) Yes you're right to want to get child arrangements sorted first - make them wait as much as you can for financials (but don't tell them that).
2) Keep your cards close to your chest - anything you say could be twisted and used against you (or warn your ex who might take pre-emptive action).
3) I think you should apply for the prohibited steps application. Any court application is going to make her very angry but it will end up having to be a court application anyway - unless she's prepared to agree to a consent order (not an agreement) for Child Arrangements and that doesn't sound very likely if they're pushing for financials first.

So you just fill in a C100 and say she has family abroad and has threatened to "move as far away as possible" and you think there is a risk of abduction over Christmas.

I am happy to checkover the form for you in a private message. You can just print it out, take it into court and ask for a same day hearing. They might ask you to come back the next day or wait all day.

I would also apply for Child Arrangements on the same form - although for that you need a MIAM sign off (mediation sign off). But it could be better to get both on the same application. What you could do is try and get a 24 hour MIAM sign off to go with the C100 and then submit it.

Mediators can be quite slow but I believe some people have used an online mediation company who can get you the sign off very quickly by email. You ask to be signed off due to urgency and needing Child Arrangements on the same form as the urgent application.

The alternative is just do the PSO on the C100, don't get the MIAM, take the form into court and wait - you might get seen the same day and get a without notice PSO on the day - there would then be a follow up hearing as your ex wouldn't have been notified. You could then submit another C100 with a MIAM sign off for Child Arrangements.

However from what you said later I suspect your ex might have already decided to put an application in for Child Arrangements, to wrong foot you, and make allegations (which she almost certainly will) and that could wrong foot you.

What would I do? If you can get a day off work I'd take the PSO application in and get that, and then submit another C100 for a CAO within days.

 

[Maloney]

Hi - sorry I thought I'd already replied to this but clearly not

1) Yes you're right to want to get child arrangements sorted first - make them wait as much as you can for financials (but don't tell them that).
2) Keep your cards close to your chest - anything you say could be twisted and used against you (or warn your ex who might take pre-emptive action).
3) I think you should apply for the prohibited steps application. Any court application is going to make her very angry but it will end up having to be a court application anyway - unless she's prepared to agree to a consent order (not an agreement) for Child Arrangements and that doesn't sound very likely if they're pushing for financials first.

So you just fill in a C100 and say she has family abroad and has threatened to "move as far away as possible" and you think there is a risk of abduction over Christmas.

I am happy to checkover the form for you in a private message. You can just print it out, take it into court and ask for a same day hearing. They might ask you to come back the next day or wait all day.

I would also apply for Child Arrangements on the same form - although for that you need a MIAM sign off (mediation sign off). But it could be better to get both on the same application. What you could do is try and get a 24 hour MIAM sign off to go with the C100 and then submit it.

Mediators can be quite slow but I believe some people have used an online mediation company who can get you the sign off very quickly by email. You ask to be signed off due to urgency and needing Child Arrangements on the same form as the urgent application.

The alternative is just do the PSO on the C100, don't get the MIAM, take the form into court and wait - you might get seen the same day and get a without notice PSO on the day - there would then be a follow up hearing as your ex wouldn't have been notified. You could then submit another C100 with a MIAM sign off for Child Arrangements.

However from what you said later I suspect your ex might have already decided to put an application in for Child Arrangements, to wrong foot you, and make allegations (which she almost certainly will) and that could wrong foot you.

What would I do? If you can get a day off work I'd take the PSO application in and get that, and then submit another C100 for a CAO within days.

 

[Maloney]

Hi Ash

Massive thanks for the detailed reply.

We have been to mediation already and I can get a MIAM certificate.

I’ll get this sorted Friday.

Great shout about keeping my cards close to my chest, today was a stupid mistake telling her before hand. She might try another DV allegation tomorrow now.

Hopefully I can get to court before.

I’ll fill out the fine tomorrow and ping it across. Really appreciate your help, thanks again.