Mother stopped contact

[SB7]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum. We have a child arrangement order in place which took me 3 years to get and spending 2.5 years in contact centre due to false allegations. Anyway the order is the children aged 4 and 7 spend every other weekend with me picking up and dropping off from/to school/ nursery.
Due to health issue I couldn't have the children for last 2 weekends. However now ex has stopped contact. She took the children early from nursery so I couldn't pick them up. She also has threatened that I won't see them again for summer holidays where they are with me for 3 weeks. The excuse is they don't want to which is a lie.
What are my options now? I don't want to go knocking on her door giving her excuse to cause troubles. Thanks

 

[Resolute]

Definitely do not go knocking on her door!

If you are communicating verbally, I suggest you switch to written communication. If she has made the threat to cancel summer in writing because young children "don't want" to see you, that is not a good reflection on her. It is her job to have them ready to see you.

It might help members advise if you detail exactly what was said/written about cancelling children's time with you.

Does the school/nursery have a copy of the Child Arrangements Order?

Do you have a good relationship with the school/nursery?

Did you turn up to collect on the day she took early from nursery? She shouldn't have taken early from school. Primary education is compulsory.

 

[SB7]

I most definitely will not go to hers i know thats what she wants.
First weekend I cancelled was due being ill so couldn't lookafter them. It was defined in court order that if one parent is ill the other parent will care for the children. Second weekend I was assaulted by a stranger so I had bruise all over my face so didn't want children to see me like that.
All communication is through an app so everything is recorded. I was meant to collect the children from nursery as it was inset day at school. Nursery and school are aware of child arrangement order but if the children aren't there I couldn't pick them up. She advised through the app first they don't want to see me and second the younger one is ill because of me so I don't care and she is concerned about their mental health which is pathetic as she is the one telling them fairy tale stories about me.

Anyway id I let go this time she will donit again and I don't want that to happen.

 

[Kyle]

Resolute is right. The shock these events can lead us to react in a way that is used against. Don't fall into that trap. Always be the saint not the sinner. You've done the right thing by keeping cool and asking for help on a forum like this where there is a lot of experience in these matters.

What are your options if a Child Arrangements Order is not being adhered too? Which in legal speak is a breach of an order.

It's not happened to me (yet) but I'm pretty sure it can amount to contempt of court.

Does your CAO contain a warning notice? I was swotting up on this the other day to try and get expert when I finally get mine. They should be added to a CAO as standard.

It is possible for you to apply to attach a warning notice to your CAO. This application can be made using the form C78. The Court will not refuse this application apparently.

But...to enforce your CAO its a form C79 below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c79-application-related-to-enforcement-of-a-child-arrangement-order

 

[Resolute]

I most definitely will not go to hers i know thats what she wants.
First weekend I cancelled was due being ill so couldn't lookafter them. It was defined in court order that if one parent is ill the other parent will care for the children. Second weekend I was assaulted by a stranger so I had bruise all over my face so didn't want children to see me like that.
All communication is through an app so everything is recorded. I was meant to collect the children from nursery as it was inset day at school. Nursery and school are aware of child arrangement order but if the children aren't there I couldn't pick them up. She advised through the app first they don't want to see me and second the younger one is ill because of me so I don't care and she is concerned about their mental health which is pathetic as she is the one telling them fairy tale stories about me.

Anyway id I let go this time she will donit again and I don't want that to happen.

Did you report the assault to the police? I would if you have not already, pictures of the injury might be good as well. Being assaulted could be twisted to reflect badly on you and it would be wise to have a record.

I asked if the school knows about the CAO because, if you are right, there could be a situation where both parents turn up to collect. This happened for me, I had the CAO with me and, after horrible negotiations, child came with me. When my ex was withholding, I wrote to her saying I expected child to be made available to me as per the order, and turned up to collect from mum every time I was due. It was many long return journeys for nothing, but I did not want to have it said I was not there.

During this time I delivered packages for my daughter, 1 for each missed day together. Just A4 jiffy bags with handmade stuff, a sweet or two, and some little trinkets. They meant the world to her and really cut through the bullshit she was being made to endure.

 

[Ash]

I'd send a letter before action (a phrase given to me by a barrister!). ie you send a brief polite formal email - either from you or from a solicitor - reminding her of her obligations under the Child Arrangements order and stating that you will be collecting the children as usual and she is to make them available as per the Child Arrangements order.

That's a warning basically. So if you go to pick them up and she has taken them and you can't pick them up, then you apply to enforce the order. Because of the warning letter, she has had plenty of opportunity to say yes, no or whatever. And she's still breached after being advised she should fulfill her obligations. So that is clear evidence for the C79 enforcement application. Its the same court fee unfortunately - £232.

An enforcement hearing is supposed to take place within 3 weeks of application however - it's much quicker than a standard application. But that was pre covid times - it could be 6 weeks now.

If you do the email yourself - detach from it being you writing to her and write it as if you're writing to a business colleague - to get the tone right.

A Solicitor's letter may just do it though, if it makes her nervous. So it could be worth asking a solicitor to write a one off letter. Ideally you just want to get things back to normal without court. So give it that chance. I think a solicitor's letter is a good move as a) it keeps her on her toes a bit and b) it's not personal from you. I know with my ex, if it comes from my email it doesn't matter what it says I'll get a mouthful of abuse back and she'll not take it seriously!

 

[SB7]

I was assaulted by my partners sisters boyfriend in my own house. I reported it to the police and had to go to hospital for a few days. He is no longer with her as she broke up with him because of this. I had sent a picture of my face to her saying I don’t want children to see me like this. The sympathy was it didn’t look to bad.
There is a warning attached to the order and as part of communication I reminded her of that. She still insisted she won’t make the children available for me. The only option is to enforce the order which is going to be lengthy process meaning I may not see the children for few weeks.
She is saying that I need to do video call with the children to build the relationship which makes my blood to boil. I don’t need to do that as I have already got a good relationship with them as they upset when they want to leave my place.
The only thing I can think to make her use the children against me is divorce and financial proceeding which still going after 4 years. I missed the last court hearing as I had GP appointment on an urgent follow up from my doctor. I am still going through ts as they are concern about me. She ended up paying her solicitor for that hearing.
She has so far spent almost 50k legal fees to stop me me seeing my children and for the divorce. And sadly I incurred around 30k to get the child arrangement order in Place. I cannot afford paying legal fees anymore and will have to self represent. Thanks

 

[Ash]

Do you think your ex heard about/found out about the assault? She may be thinking there is some danger? If she did know about it she may well try and use that against you (I hardly see how but .....).

Just send her a brief email then:

"Dear Ex Name

I write to remind you of your obligations, under the Child Arrangements order dated xxxxxxxx and ask that you confirm to me please, that they will be available for me to collect from school, as usual, on x day. Both parents should encourage time with the other parent and we are both obliged to comply with the terms of the Child Arrangements order, which is made in the best interests of the children. If there are any issues you wish to discuss, I am sure these can be resolved at mediation. In the meantime, I will expect to collect the children as usual on x day.

Regards, you"

If you don't get a reply within a day or two, submit the C79, along with a copy of that email and any evidence - texts, emails, that show she's witholding the children and her reasons (which you can politely argue against in your application).

If you get a nasty reply - fine - that's good evidence too. Go to collect them from school on the day/time you're due to have them - so send the email at least two days before that. If they're not there, or have been collected early, then that's more evidence for your application. Ask the school to give you a copy of the kids attendance record for this year (quick and easy for them to send you and it should show any absences recently if she's kept them off school on your days).

I mention all that because although enforcement is the way forwards, the courts like to see you have attempted to resolve things first - hence writing her that "last chance" email (although don't let her know it's that) and mentioning mediation. So you sound like the sensible reasonable one.

So 2 days before you're next due to pick up the kids, send something like that email to her. Go to pick up the kids from school. If they're not there, or don't come with you, submit the C79.

On the application form, give a brief explanation of what's happened (as you have to us - you were unwell over two week-end periods and the order states if one parent is unwell, the other will care for the children). Keep that vague - I wouldn't mention the assault at this stage. "Unwell" is enough. And you can prove it if necessary. Mention she says the children don't want to come.
Also list the breaches.

And you can attach evidence to a C79. Evidence needs to be proof of the breaches, and anything else you think would be helpful.

For enforcement, it has to be shown that breach was without reasonable excuse. She of course will make excuses - but they will be clear breaches.

 

[SB7]

Thanks Ash. I will send the message through the app. She is insisting to have Video call and the next time children are due with me is for 2 weeks in summer which they don’t go to school and my concern is she will deny access again. Don’t you think evidence from messages on app (which cannot be deleted) isn’t enough to satisfy the court if the breach?

 

[Ash]

They probably are, but it shows you've attempted to give her a last chance to rectify things before applying to court.

 

[SB7]

As expected she ignored the message and insisting on video call rather than following the court order. Is there any help to fill in c79 form?

 

[Ash]

It's very similar to filling in the C100 except your written piece is at 7a instead of 5b. You could fill it in at 7a or if you want to give more detail you could just type - please see attached sheet, type it in Word and add the extra page to the application (putting your name and application type at the top). I also think it's helpful to copy the "statement of truth" from the end of the form, onto the end of the attached sheet, sign and date it.

So to start with you want to list the breaches. Eg

3pm Friday 17th June to 6pm Sunday 19th June
3pm Wednesday 23rd June to 9am Thursday 24th June

And so on.

Then give an explanation under that. Happy to look over your wording for the application, explanation bit. Tone can make a difference, as can a calm sound argument.

Meanwhile accept the video calls offered

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/958020/c79-eng.pdf

 

[SB7]

Hello guys,
After I wrote this I was diagnosed with severe depression and had a daily visit from NHS. It was really difficult for me. I was given antidepressants and other drugs which I still taking. I am a lot better than I was before but not fully recovered. Not seeing my children made it worse. I was unable to make an application to the court as I couldn’t manage it. However last month I made an application for enforcement and it was reviewed by the same judge that ordered the child arrangement order and he ordered to be listed for hearing. It was also ordered for me to prepare a statement wishing 14 days and ex to respond within the same time. It was also ordered for direction hearing which I am confused. It is 30 minutes hearing and I thought that would be it for enforcement?
Any ideas guys? Also what do I need to put in the statement? And finally I am anxious it was long time since I saw my children and it may complicate things?

Thanks

 

[mva]

Does you ex know about your MH diagnosis?

 

[SB7]

Does you ex know about your MH diagnosis?

She knows that I have been unwell and went to see a doctor but all details.

 

[Peanut 21]

Hello guys,
After I wrote this I was diagnosed with severe depression and had a daily visit from NHS. It was really difficult for me. I was given antidepressants and other drugs which I still taking. I am a lot better than I was before but not fully recovered. Not seeing my children made it worse. I was unable to make an application to the court as I couldn’t manage it. However last month I made an application for enforcement and it was reviewed by the same judge that ordered the child arrangement order and he ordered to be listed for hearing. It was also ordered for me to prepare a statement wishing 14 days and ex to respond within the same time. It was also ordered for direction hearing which I am confused. It is 30 minutes hearing and I thought that would be it for enforcement?
Any ideas guys? Also what do I need to put in the statement? And finally I am anxious it was long time since I saw my children and it may complicate things?

Thanks

Hi SB7,
My partner put in an enforcement order in 2020 (again recently but still awaiting court response) and there was a hearing.
The directions hearing will be an opportunity for you to say what you want (the court order to be adhered to/ex to be punished) and your ex to say why she's breached.
Your statement is a position statement where you can give a brief explanation of the background of the case and say what you want such as more time with the kids etc.
You can also attach evidence such as print outs of texts/emails your ex has sent to you.
Do you need help writing a statement?

 

[SB7]

Hi SB7,
My partner put in an enforcement order in 2020 (again recently but still awaiting court response) and there was a hearing.
The directions hearing will be an opportunity for you to say what you want (the court order to be adhered to/ex to be punished) and your ex to say why she's breached.
Your statement is a position statement where you can give a brief explanation of the background of the case and say what you want such as more time with the kids etc.
You can also attach evidence such as print outs of texts/emails your ex has sent to you.
Do you need help writing a statement?

Hi
I would be grateful if you could help me with statement.
I don’t want anything else from the court but to enforce the order that was issues 2 years ago. I don’t really want to have long process after having to wait 3 years for current order. Ex seems to be enjoying this going to court etc

 

[Peanut 21]

Hi
I would be grateful if you could help me with statement.
I don’t want anything else from the court but to enforce the order that was issues 2 years ago. I don’t really want to have long process after having to wait 3 years for current order. Ex seems to be enjoying this going to court etc

Yes, they certainly enjoy the process. These types of women seem to wallow in the drama and forget the children's feelings.
It's important that you tell the judge that although you didn't want it to come to this that your ex should be punished. My partner made the mistake 2 years ago of letting his ex off when the judge asked if he wanted his ex to be punished. It's got to be worded in the right way so you don't sound vengeful. It can be a catch 22 situation because if you let her off she gets away with it and will breach again. If you go ahead she can then tell your child 'daddy punished me for trying to protect you' or some other BS.
Have you ever written a position statement before? If not I can try and find an old one (removing personal details etc obviously).

 

[Ash]

I would second having to be careful with that as regards punishment. It needs to be the right "punishment" to be a deterrant rather than making them worse. Anything that restricts parental responsibility is something that makes them think twice in case the next thing is losing residency. I had costs ordered on one occasion. That should have been a detterant but it made things worse and they didn't get paid. Quite difficult to enforce costs as well so I cut my losses there. A better option would be a penal notice. A penal notice can be asked for - it must be on the front of the order, to be valid and means that they could be imprisoned if they breach again. Even then it's not that simple - if she did breach again you still have to apply for the penal notice to be enacted (and it does seem courts are reluctant to send Mothers to prison).

If it's the type of person that Peanut 21 describes then nothing will be a deterrant - they are bold and think the court will never send them to prison. So in my view the best thing to ask for is a suspended residence clause. This is a clause in an order that says, if she breaches again, residency will be transferred. That is quite a big deterrant as then she loses money - the child benefits and the CMS. And control and power. Even if residency is transferred they can still work on the kids and try and alienate them or get them to refuse to come back by threats and coercion. The main difference is you have more power and if she does do bad stuff to coerce the kids, you can withold them. And have the best chance of counteracting and undoing any alienation attempts.

Yes courts don't like to see one parent asking for "punishment" for the other so I would suggest couching it something like "the court may wish to consider making a suspended residence clause, curbing the Mother's parental responsibility, to encourage her to comply with court orders in future and to help ameliorate the effects of any negativity towards me on the children."

The thing is - even for a suspended residence clause, they have to do a section 7 to see if transfer of residence is suitable - just as they would for a transfer of residence, because it could happen immediately a breach is proven.

 

[Peanut 21]

I would second having to be careful with that as regards punishment. It needs to be the right "punishment" to be a deterrant rather than making them worse. Anything that restricts parental responsibility is something that makes them think twice in case the next thing is losing residency. I had costs ordered on one occasion. That should have been a detterant but it made things worse and they didn't get paid. Quite difficult to enforce costs as well so I cut my losses there. A better option would be a penal notice. A penal notice can be asked for - it must be on the front of the order, to be valid and means that they could be imprisoned if they breach again. Even then it's not that simple - if she did breach again you still have to apply for the penal notice to be enacted (and it does seem courts are reluctant to send Mothers to prison).

If it's the type of person that Peanut 21 describes then nothing will be a deterrant - they are bold and think the court will never send them to prison. So in my view the best thing to ask for is a suspended residence clause. This is a clause in an order that says, if she breaches again, residency will be transferred. That is quite a big deterrant as then she loses money - the child benefits and the CMS. And control and power. Even if residency is transferred they can still work on the kids and try and alienate them or get them to refuse to come back by threats and coercion. The main difference is you have more power and if she does do bad stuff to coerce the kids, you can withold them. And have the best chance of counteracting and undoing any alienation attempts.

Yes courts don't like to see one parent asking for "punishment" for the other so I would suggest couching it something like "the court may wish to consider making a suspended residence clause, curbing the Mother's parental responsibility, to encourage her to comply with court orders in future and to help ameliorate the effects of any negativity towards me on the children."

The thing is - even for a suspended residence clause, they have to do a section 7 to see if transfer of residence is suitable - just as they would for a transfer of residence, because it could happen immediately a breach is proven.

Yeah wording needs to be child focused. It could be worded in a way that it's not what you want but you fear it will happen again if there are no repercussions. It's a last resort. And all you want is to see your children so they can enjoy a relationship with both parents.