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Is this alienation
- Thread starter SJP
- Start date
It is very tricky. If she goes then it is basically saying you have decided there are no welfare issues with the Mother. I think you need to explain to your daughter that it's not possible at the moment but you will do something else fun instead. Just tell her that you won't be able to protect her if she spends two weeks with ex and some people are helping sort things out and there will be other holidays. I don't think you will look like the bad guy if you're protecting your daughter. On the other hand the court has left your son with her .............
I've told her all the above mate but no change, it hasn't helped that today she's been with her brother at school and he's been talking about it aswell, just don't know what to do for the best, I'm thinking that I can say she was OK to go knowing ex couldn't keep her afterwards but I don't know
Ex COULD keep her afterwards! There is nothing to stop her. In two weeks she could have persuaded your daughter to stay there. Or just refuse to let her come back. Your daughter is 9 so has no power to move out of her own accord. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. No doubt your ex would spoil your daughter silly on holiday, treat her like a princess, manipulate her and derogate you. The other thing they do is withdraw treats and affection if the child won't do what they want. Manipulation basically.
I think if your daughter goes on this holiday, she won't be living with you any more. You need to be clear with your daughter that this isn't possible at the moment.
Once you agree to daughter going either a) you're saying there are no welfare issues with ex - in which case she will keep her - or b) you are failing to protect your daughter and let her go on holiday with someone you've said is unsafe and abusive. It's big stuff.
I think if your daughter goes on this holiday, she won't be living with you any more. You need to be clear with your daughter that this isn't possible at the moment.
Once you agree to daughter going either a) you're saying there are no welfare issues with ex - in which case she will keep her - or b) you are failing to protect your daughter and let her go on holiday with someone you've said is unsafe and abusive. It's big stuff.
You could give way - hope the kids are ok with ex from now on and that she knows she's under the spotlight and will be more careful. Then you're just needing a Child Arrangements order for time with you, or a shot at a 50/50 lives with both order. In other words - saying you accept there are no welfare issues and best thing for the kids is equal time with both parents.
Yeah doesn't matter what I say she will get hers no matter what, if I said 90/10 in her favour she would want 92, I think daugher has been away so long she's forgetting what she put her through but that would come back pretty quick, I'm really considering letting this go and admitting defeat and hoping the kids come to me when they're old enough, this sounds selfish but I need to move on also and if I know ex she will drag this out til I die just for kicks
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This holiday coming up has thrown a spanner in the works but in two weeks it will be over. And then you'll be back where you were before. Daughter living with you, son living with ex - interim arrangements. Hers supervised, yours not.
Don't give up. This is just the start of a process and a lot can happen along the way. But your daughter is with you for a reason. When is the next hearing, or don't you know yet? I suspect your ex's solicitor has written the interim arrangements and not put it as it was at court. Your barrister can sort that out meantime. Sounds very tricksy to me that you a) have to go to ex's house to collect your son (which is unnecessary and can lead to all kinds of things) and be that she wants her supervised time at the same time as you take your son back instead of on a different day.
That sounds ripe for manipulation to me. She could a) say son refuses to come when you get to the house (this is less likely to happen if pick up is from school) and b) say your daughter doesn't want to come back if both kids go back together.
But her behaviour during the interim period will be noted and if she doesn't keep to a reasonable arrangement as agreed at court then it will start to look more in your favour. But do contact your barrister who was there at the hearign and he can knock any changed wording on the head.
Don't give up. This is just the start of a process and a lot can happen along the way. But your daughter is with you for a reason. When is the next hearing, or don't you know yet? I suspect your ex's solicitor has written the interim arrangements and not put it as it was at court. Your barrister can sort that out meantime. Sounds very tricksy to me that you a) have to go to ex's house to collect your son (which is unnecessary and can lead to all kinds of things) and be that she wants her supervised time at the same time as you take your son back instead of on a different day.
That sounds ripe for manipulation to me. She could a) say son refuses to come when you get to the house (this is less likely to happen if pick up is from school) and b) say your daughter doesn't want to come back if both kids go back together.
But her behaviour during the interim period will be noted and if she doesn't keep to a reasonable arrangement as agreed at court then it will start to look more in your favour. But do contact your barrister who was there at the hearign and he can knock any changed wording on the head.
To answer your initial question - it could become alienation - if she starts filling your son's head with derogatory stuff about you.
So at the next hearing you want to be asking for a recital that says "Neither parent will make derogatory remarks about the other parent to the children". It's a guide marker rather than easy to make happen, but it could help at the next stage that this is on record.
This will all be sorted when you get to the end of the court process. Along the way it will be like a rollercoaster sometimes as your ex will be fighting everything along the way. But it can settle down completely once a final order is made. And the final order needs to be watertight and worded really clearly. Many of us have fallen foul of vague, badly worded orders. So we help each other out with that with tips for order wording
So at the next hearing you want to be asking for a recital that says "Neither parent will make derogatory remarks about the other parent to the children". It's a guide marker rather than easy to make happen, but it could help at the next stage that this is on record.
This will all be sorted when you get to the end of the court process. Along the way it will be like a rollercoaster sometimes as your ex will be fighting everything along the way. But it can settle down completely once a final order is made. And the final order needs to be watertight and worded really clearly. Many of us have fallen foul of vague, badly worded orders. So we help each other out with that with tips for order wording
That was put in the initial order but doesn't seem to have made any difference. I tell daughter most days that mam loves her but I don't get the same back, she did say we both loved her in the letter though, she couldn't really write otherwiseTo answer your initial question - it could become alienation - if she starts filling your son's head with derogatory stuff about you.
So at the next hearing you want to be asking for a recital that says "Neither parent will make derogatory remarks about the other parent to the children". It's a guide marker rather than easy to make happen, but it could help at the next stage that this is on record.
This will all be sorted when you get to the end of the court process. Along the way it will be like a rollercoaster sometimes as your ex will be fighting everything along the way. But it can settle down completely once a final order is made. And the final order needs to be watertight and worded really clearly. Many of us have fallen foul of vague, badly worded orders. So we help each other out with that with tips for order wording
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