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In desperate help to have contact with my daughter
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
Hi. A few questions. When did you last see her? Is there a court order in place or informal arrangements? How often were you seeing her before your ex stopped that? Have you recently separated? What reason is she giving for not letting your daughter see or speak to you?
Sorry to ask so many questions! It helps to know what to advise what to do next, but my suggestion would be the first thing to do is put something in writing in an email to her (a kind of letter before action which also provides evidence later of what is happening). A BIFF email (brief, informative, friendly, formal - as if writing to a business colleague). Anything in writing - texts, emails etc - can be used as evidence - either for or against you. So keep any communications non personal and calm/polite (whatever she does or says).
Can suggest what kind of email to send when know more.
It is incredibly stressful and distressing - been there.
Sorry to ask so many questions! It helps to know what to advise what to do next, but my suggestion would be the first thing to do is put something in writing in an email to her (a kind of letter before action which also provides evidence later of what is happening). A BIFF email (brief, informative, friendly, formal - as if writing to a business colleague). Anything in writing - texts, emails etc - can be used as evidence - either for or against you. So keep any communications non personal and calm/polite (whatever she does or says).
Can suggest what kind of email to send when know more.
It is incredibly stressful and distressing - been there.
You mentioned in your PM that your ex wouldn’t go to mediation unless you paid - they are good at that! So did you get signed off from mediation or not start it?
Basically if she is withholding your daughter and won’t try mediation then the only real option is apply to court. You mentioned she had reported you to social services for an argument with her sister (?). DP you know what the outcome of that was? Ie did social services do anything - open a case snd close it?
Sonetimes what these exes do is say - social services advised me to withhold contact. But if social services didn’t open a case that is unlikely.
What else have you tried? Reasoning with her by email?
Basically if she is withholding your daughter and won’t try mediation then the only real option is apply to court. You mentioned she had reported you to social services for an argument with her sister (?). DP you know what the outcome of that was? Ie did social services do anything - open a case snd close it?
Sonetimes what these exes do is say - social services advised me to withhold contact. But if social services didn’t open a case that is unlikely.
What else have you tried? Reasoning with her by email?
Sorry to hear your ex is doing this. As Ash said, it would help to know more details. But it sounds like you will need to apply to court on a C100 for a child arrangements order, after being signed off mediation. You can get help on here with that.
She has not yet contacted meditation. They wanted to hear from her if she would take part. After i had spoken to .so they phoned her and she said to them yes she would After her mum's funeral. I had spoken to them 3 days before her mum died off cardiac arrest. Then she sent a nasty WhatsApp message with a picture of the paperwork from the meditation team. I wasn't to know her mum was going to die. She blames me for her mum's death and her mum died hating me was her words. I have tried to talk to her but has blocked me on her phone and WhatsApp and also my daughter's phone. But i spoke to my daughter Wednesday the morning of the funeral. Then my daughter's big sister texted me that my little girl would call me later that evening. But i hadn't yet received a call yet. So i messaged this morning to ask if all went well on the funeral and if I could speak to my daughter and all i got back was. Mum has been advised by a solicitor to take it to court. Thats the gist of the what im dealing with.
Jay,
People die - its not something you exactly can schedule in life.
Let the fact of the death, whilst an emotive and exhausting thing for all concerned, wash over you - you didnt do anything and whether someone hates you or not, is immaterial, we all go through life with people liking and disliking us - its not your problem.
First off - keep records of ALL your emails/whatsapps/letters - and if she specifically asks you NOT to contact her, then do NOT as you do not want an NMO hanging over you as this will make contact far more difficult.
How long ago was the mediation appointment?
If the mediation request was a while ago (say a couple of weeks), then you can go ahead and ask the Mediation company to sign your form as your ex isnt going to attend and you (and them) have made reasonable attempts to do so.
Are you taking her to court?
The fact she has been advised by a solicitor to take it to court is all fine and dandy, but that isn't an actual reason to stop contact, which may come back to bite her in the bum.
All I can suggest is that you hang in there - whilst its simple to read on a screen, its more difficult in practice, but believe me, ALL of the dads on this board (and others) have been in the same (or similar) situation as you - so you are not alone and do not let this get you down, you need to be strong for your kids sake.
Invis
People die - its not something you exactly can schedule in life.
Let the fact of the death, whilst an emotive and exhausting thing for all concerned, wash over you - you didnt do anything and whether someone hates you or not, is immaterial, we all go through life with people liking and disliking us - its not your problem.
First off - keep records of ALL your emails/whatsapps/letters - and if she specifically asks you NOT to contact her, then do NOT as you do not want an NMO hanging over you as this will make contact far more difficult.
How long ago was the mediation appointment?
If the mediation request was a while ago (say a couple of weeks), then you can go ahead and ask the Mediation company to sign your form as your ex isnt going to attend and you (and them) have made reasonable attempts to do so.
Are you taking her to court?
The fact she has been advised by a solicitor to take it to court is all fine and dandy, but that isn't an actual reason to stop contact, which may come back to bite her in the bum.
All I can suggest is that you hang in there - whilst its simple to read on a screen, its more difficult in practice, but believe me, ALL of the dads on this board (and others) have been in the same (or similar) situation as you - so you are not alone and do not let this get you down, you need to be strong for your kids sake.
Invis
In that case you have been more than fair with time - I would say to get your C100 signed and filed with the court before she does
You can DM me on here I don't mind that - I usually respond quickly
Can you inbox me on *email address removed* please
I have removed your email address as it could identify you and could cause issues in your case - please feel free to DM me
You weren’t to know her Mum was going to die two days after a mediation appointment. Obviously your ex will be emotional but she shouldn’t be stopping you see or speak to your daughter.
Agree with Invisible that it’s better to get your application in first.
Call the mediator - ask then to send you the sign off papers, start filling in the C100. You can get help on here filling it in.
To send a direct message (conversation) you click on the envelope at the top of the page - select to start a conversation. Start typing the name of the person you want to send the message to and their name will appear to select.
However emotional she is, no one has the right to tell you it’s your fault someone died and it would concern me that she may tell your daughter that. Derogating the other parent is the start of parental alienation- another reason to get your application in ASAP.
Agree with Invisible that it’s better to get your application in first.
Call the mediator - ask then to send you the sign off papers, start filling in the C100. You can get help on here filling it in.
To send a direct message (conversation) you click on the envelope at the top of the page - select to start a conversation. Start typing the name of the person you want to send the message to and their name will appear to select.
However emotional she is, no one has the right to tell you it’s your fault someone died and it would concern me that she may tell your daughter that. Derogating the other parent is the start of parental alienation- another reason to get your application in ASAP.
Make sure that you have put what access you want on the C100, attach a parenting plan if you want to. Keep it completely child focussed and do not diss your ex on it.
It's likely your ex will fill in her response and accuse you of everything - dont rise to it or let it affect you .
It's likely your ex will fill in her response and accuse you of everything - dont rise to it or let it affect you .
Yep - tips for the C100
1) First page Nature of Application - where you tick Child Arrangements. In the box underneath you need to put what you want. Can't change that later. So for example - these are things you might want:
"Spends time with 5 nights a fortnight and half school holidays"
"Lives with both parents on a shared care 50/50 basis"
"Lives with both parents on a shared care 60/40 basis".
Not sure what was happening before but say you had been seeing your daughter 4 nights a fortnight for the past year, they are unlikely to order 50/50 shared care, but would order 4 nights a fortnight as before most likely (however you're also likely to get 5 a fortnight if you ask).
"Spends time with" is what used to be contact
"Lives with" is what used to be residence
"Lives with both parents/shared care" is what used to be joint residence/shared residence.
So you need to think carefully about what kind of schedule you want (that would work for your daughter). If you've only recently separated and not really had a schedule then you might want to think about 50/50 shared care. From what you've said before (daugher medical condition), you may not get that but then you can negotiate down from that.
If you've been separated a while and had an informal schedule, then you're basically looking to reinstate a sensible schedule.
If there have been no court orders before then neither of you, technically, has "residence". So point 2)
2) Don't accidentally give the Mother a residence order! (I speak from bitter experience). If you are wanting "lives with both/shared care". On page 3 1d says Who do the children currently live with?
The options are Applicant, (ie you), Respondent (ie your ex) Other.
If you feel, and are happy for the children to live with your ex and "spend time" with you - then tick "Respondent".
However if you feel that until now you have been equal in terms of caring for your daughter and/or want to apply for shared residence "lives with both parents" then tick both boxes (Applicant and Respondent).
I think it's best to tick both anyway!
Later in the form is the summary box. Page 10 section 5b
This is where you explain the situation, confirm what you're asking the court to do and perhaps give a bit of background as to your parenting history. The box isn't very big. I usually type "Please see attached sheet" and type out that bit on A4. No more than a side of A4 or it won't get read.
Language in that needs to be polite and calm so you come across as reasonable and only asking for something reasonable - and don't say anything negative about your ex (or they will assume you're an abuser!).
So I usually do:
First short paragraph "I request the court make an order for my daughter to spend time with me 5 nights a fortnight and half the school holidays, to reinstate the arrangement my daughter has had until recently." (Change spend time with to lives me on a shared care basis, if appropriate, and amend depending on what happened before.
The first paragraph then says, in a nutshell what you want. And the end paragraph should link with this ideally.
In between you then give a brief explanation as to what is happening - the C100 gives guidance on the left of the box. So you might say there was previously an agreement for xyz which has been the case since x date, although arrangements have always been difficult to achieve, and with communication difficulties. That since x date Mrs Ex has been witholding communication with your daughter and preventing you seeing her, after a disagreement with Mrs Ex's sister, and during a period where Mrs Ex's Mother died. You have attempted to communicate with Mrs Ex and have tried mediation (which didn't go ahead). While you appreciate that this is a difficult time for Mrs Ex, you are very concerned about the effects on your daughter, who has autism, and to suddenly not see you any more will affect her very much. You feel it's important that she is able to see and speak to you as soon as possible.
You feel that Mrs Ex's point of view is that she is angry with you and upset, due to her Mother recently dying, that this anger and upset is being directed at you, and that she feels your daughter shouldn't speak to you or see you as a result. You don't agree that this is in daughter's best interests, and while you fully understand this is an emotional time for Mrs Ex, you feel your daughter very much needs the stability of routine (particularly due to her autism) and stability of time with both parents as usual. Indeed you feel it may actually benefit your daughter to spend more time with you at the moment if Mrs Ex is struggling due to her bereavement.
So that's covered the why and the what the other parent's viewpoint might be.
I think it then helps to briefly give info of a history of parenting on your part. Eg if you have been a hands on Dad since birth with nappy changing, bottle feeding etc then say that. If you've been running your daughter here and there for ages, giving her medicines, taking her to classes etc. Say so. Also mention that she has an extended family of half siblings she is fond of and used to seeing regularly. (Or similar). And that she is very established in your home environment, which she will be missing.
Final paragraph sort of "I therefore respectfully request the court make an order as follows:"
And set out what you want. Eg
For my daughter to live with both parents. With me on a 2-2-5-5 basis, every other week-end, every wednesday and thursday night and half the school holidays, and live with her Mother the rest of the time. (That would be 50/50 shared care).
For my daughter to spend time with me every other week-end from 3pm Friday to 9am Monday, and every wednesday night, plus half the school holidays. (That would be 5 nights a fortnight with ex having residency).
Anything else, just shout.
1) First page Nature of Application - where you tick Child Arrangements. In the box underneath you need to put what you want. Can't change that later. So for example - these are things you might want:
"Spends time with 5 nights a fortnight and half school holidays"
"Lives with both parents on a shared care 50/50 basis"
"Lives with both parents on a shared care 60/40 basis".
Not sure what was happening before but say you had been seeing your daughter 4 nights a fortnight for the past year, they are unlikely to order 50/50 shared care, but would order 4 nights a fortnight as before most likely (however you're also likely to get 5 a fortnight if you ask).
"Spends time with" is what used to be contact
"Lives with" is what used to be residence
"Lives with both parents/shared care" is what used to be joint residence/shared residence.
So you need to think carefully about what kind of schedule you want (that would work for your daughter). If you've only recently separated and not really had a schedule then you might want to think about 50/50 shared care. From what you've said before (daugher medical condition), you may not get that but then you can negotiate down from that.
If you've been separated a while and had an informal schedule, then you're basically looking to reinstate a sensible schedule.
If there have been no court orders before then neither of you, technically, has "residence". So point 2)
2) Don't accidentally give the Mother a residence order! (I speak from bitter experience). If you are wanting "lives with both/shared care". On page 3 1d says Who do the children currently live with?
The options are Applicant, (ie you), Respondent (ie your ex) Other.
If you feel, and are happy for the children to live with your ex and "spend time" with you - then tick "Respondent".
However if you feel that until now you have been equal in terms of caring for your daughter and/or want to apply for shared residence "lives with both parents" then tick both boxes (Applicant and Respondent).
I think it's best to tick both anyway!
Later in the form is the summary box. Page 10 section 5b
This is where you explain the situation, confirm what you're asking the court to do and perhaps give a bit of background as to your parenting history. The box isn't very big. I usually type "Please see attached sheet" and type out that bit on A4. No more than a side of A4 or it won't get read.
Language in that needs to be polite and calm so you come across as reasonable and only asking for something reasonable - and don't say anything negative about your ex (or they will assume you're an abuser!).
So I usually do:
First short paragraph "I request the court make an order for my daughter to spend time with me 5 nights a fortnight and half the school holidays, to reinstate the arrangement my daughter has had until recently." (Change spend time with to lives me on a shared care basis, if appropriate, and amend depending on what happened before.
The first paragraph then says, in a nutshell what you want. And the end paragraph should link with this ideally.
In between you then give a brief explanation as to what is happening - the C100 gives guidance on the left of the box. So you might say there was previously an agreement for xyz which has been the case since x date, although arrangements have always been difficult to achieve, and with communication difficulties. That since x date Mrs Ex has been witholding communication with your daughter and preventing you seeing her, after a disagreement with Mrs Ex's sister, and during a period where Mrs Ex's Mother died. You have attempted to communicate with Mrs Ex and have tried mediation (which didn't go ahead). While you appreciate that this is a difficult time for Mrs Ex, you are very concerned about the effects on your daughter, who has autism, and to suddenly not see you any more will affect her very much. You feel it's important that she is able to see and speak to you as soon as possible.
You feel that Mrs Ex's point of view is that she is angry with you and upset, due to her Mother recently dying, that this anger and upset is being directed at you, and that she feels your daughter shouldn't speak to you or see you as a result. You don't agree that this is in daughter's best interests, and while you fully understand this is an emotional time for Mrs Ex, you feel your daughter very much needs the stability of routine (particularly due to her autism) and stability of time with both parents as usual. Indeed you feel it may actually benefit your daughter to spend more time with you at the moment if Mrs Ex is struggling due to her bereavement.
So that's covered the why and the what the other parent's viewpoint might be.
I think it then helps to briefly give info of a history of parenting on your part. Eg if you have been a hands on Dad since birth with nappy changing, bottle feeding etc then say that. If you've been running your daughter here and there for ages, giving her medicines, taking her to classes etc. Say so. Also mention that she has an extended family of half siblings she is fond of and used to seeing regularly. (Or similar). And that she is very established in your home environment, which she will be missing.
Final paragraph sort of "I therefore respectfully request the court make an order as follows:"
And set out what you want. Eg
For my daughter to live with both parents. With me on a 2-2-5-5 basis, every other week-end, every wednesday and thursday night and half the school holidays, and live with her Mother the rest of the time. (That would be 50/50 shared care).
For my daughter to spend time with me every other week-end from 3pm Friday to 9am Monday, and every wednesday night, plus half the school holidays. (That would be 5 nights a fortnight with ex having residency).
Anything else, just shout.
Are you applying online? Or posting it or taking it into court? If you take it into court you can pay when you're there. If you're posting it they will probably phone you for payment over the phone when it's processed. I haven't applied online before but imagine it's the same as posting it - they'll phone you to ask for payment over the phone. So make sure you put a phone number.
With Covid, things are a bit different. Before Covid I used to always take the application in - I kind of thought it might speed the process up a bit. Someone has to check it's all correct before payment is taken, so I used to wait and then pay. It then gets passed to a "gatekeeper" which is usually a district Judge who reads through it to decide if all is as it should be then accepts it. It is then passed to Cafcass. This is why I think it's good to have the information suggested above - because Cafcass see the application before they become involved with you, and first impressions count
.
If you're posting it or taking it in, you need four copies of everything. A lot of photocopying and printing. One for you to keep. Three to take to court.
I tend to fill the C100 in online (if you can edit Pdf's - may need a program to do that). Then just print out four copies. Then photocopy the MIAM sheet 3 times and swap the page in each four copies of the printed out C100. 3 photocopies of your A4 sheet with the summary and add that in behind the page with the summary box.
If you do do a separate A4 sheet, put your name at the top of it, plus Application for Child Arrangements order, and at the bottom, copy the "Statement of Truth" wording from the end of the application form and sign and date that sheet at the same time you sign and date the form. Gives it more authenticity and makes sure it stays with the application if the sheet becomes detached.
It's a big chunky thing when finished. I usually staple each copy to make sure sheets don't come loose but a stapler often won't go through! (I actually bought a heavy duty stapler after my third application!).
I am not even sure if courts are open to take the application in. You could ring them and ask. If you think it's safe, then I would take it in and pay while there with a debit or credit card. Just in case your ex has already started to submit an application. Try and get in first!
The other thing re the wording above is - it kind of pre-empts any twaddle your ex then accuses you of - they see your rational calm version of events first.
With Covid, things are a bit different. Before Covid I used to always take the application in - I kind of thought it might speed the process up a bit. Someone has to check it's all correct before payment is taken, so I used to wait and then pay. It then gets passed to a "gatekeeper" which is usually a district Judge who reads through it to decide if all is as it should be then accepts it. It is then passed to Cafcass. This is why I think it's good to have the information suggested above - because Cafcass see the application before they become involved with you, and first impressions count
.If you're posting it or taking it in, you need four copies of everything. A lot of photocopying and printing. One for you to keep. Three to take to court.
I tend to fill the C100 in online (if you can edit Pdf's - may need a program to do that). Then just print out four copies. Then photocopy the MIAM sheet 3 times and swap the page in each four copies of the printed out C100. 3 photocopies of your A4 sheet with the summary and add that in behind the page with the summary box.
If you do do a separate A4 sheet, put your name at the top of it, plus Application for Child Arrangements order, and at the bottom, copy the "Statement of Truth" wording from the end of the application form and sign and date that sheet at the same time you sign and date the form. Gives it more authenticity and makes sure it stays with the application if the sheet becomes detached.
It's a big chunky thing when finished. I usually staple each copy to make sure sheets don't come loose but a stapler often won't go through! (I actually bought a heavy duty stapler after my third application!).
I am not even sure if courts are open to take the application in. You could ring them and ask. If you think it's safe, then I would take it in and pay while there with a debit or credit card. Just in case your ex has already started to submit an application. Try and get in first!
The other thing re the wording above is - it kind of pre-empts any twaddle your ex then accuses you of - they see your rational calm version of events first.
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Ok - when the mediation form arrives, it's identical to page 9 on the C100. So you just need to replace page 9 on the C100 with the page sent to you by the mediator (ie photocopy the form sent by the mediator 3 times and swap the page over on all three copies of the C100).