Guest viewing is limited

Gate Keeping Hearing

Thanks for your help

I was calm and consistent in saying I believe they should have an equal relationship with both partner

She ended the conversation by calling me and my partner a name and closing the door.

I was just trying to come to an amicable agreement with her and for her to understand but there was just no way.

She's actually a really good mum I just don't understand why she's doing this. My daughter was clearly upset today and she blamed me for that.
 
She hasn't stopped overnights, she's reduced them to weekends only as the nights in the week with me aren't quality time (her words - it's the same at hers though surely) but she says I can have them after school take them for dinner and drop them off before bed. All feels financially motivated.

I've not taken her upon this. She always says I let you have xyz, like.its.all her decision. Very patronising makes.me feel second rate parent.
 
I think its "residency" motivated. If she called the week-end "quality time" then she's been reading up on things or getting legal advice. Midweek is "care time" so she is basically saying - I'm the parent with care and you're just having every other week-end. She might do that in the interim but you should get the midweek time back as an interim order at first hearing.
 
Hi all, I have received a date of Thursday 21st for my CAFCASS call, what further advice would you give?
 
Last edited:
Will reply soon - plenty of time to get organised :)
 
Hi all, I have received a date of Thursday 21st for my CAFCASS call, what further advice would you give?
You will be asked what your wishes are for the children, your C100 is your answer.

You will be asked if you have any concerns for the children when with Mum. If you do say so, but my advice would be to keep it top level and wait to be asked for details. All of your answers need to be child focused, not about how you feel or about how you feel about Mum. Avoid any slagging off at all costs.

Mum will have been asked the same. This could be a swerve ball moment and the disadvantage is to you since she has been spoken to 1st. Whatever concerns you may have....she won't be asked about. And yes, welcome to the system of gender bias!

If tbe swerve ball comes, stay calm and child focused. Ash will be along to give you some great phrases to have to hand for these instances.

And on that point, I think it helps you to have a single sheet with bullet point notes as described above that you can use as and when you need to.

Right, I need to now take my son to meet with the District Judge.....gosh, it's over 2 years ago since I had my first Cafcass call! Yep, welcome to the system of gender bias, inordinate delays in the Court system and sabotage by the other side's legal reps.

"Delay is the enemy of the children" is oft quoted but, sadly, the system does nothing but support that vile enemy.

Take care, SS.
 
I'm a currently in the middle of a child arrangements - I had my first Cafcass contact in January 2022. So just giving you my experience incase you find it relatable to a 'newer/different' approach.
I was unfortunate enough to not have a telephone call with Cafcass. My report was made to court from Cafcass just two hours following a pathetic questionnaire that asked me nothing of my time with my child. So be aware the call may turn into two pages of pointless and vague question like mine did. The outcome and advice to court following my safeguarding letter with Cafcass was they would not support unsupervised contact. No safeguarding issues existed until this questionnaire.

I have read the rest of your posts and I would be very aware of the route you are now starting to head towards with the other parent and your child arrangements journey. It's a tough one. As Ash has mentioned above - she will be feeling threatened now.... and this is a dangerous place to be
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash
Thanks for all your help.

Her solicitor letter landed with mine today with a pack of lies about things which upset me, never thought it'd get to this point if I'm honest but I've got proof and answers for what she's saying. It's just tit for tat right now which is what I'm avoiding I'm just sticking to what's best for the kids.
 
Any of those 'lies' include domestic (verbal, emotional, phycological etc) abuse towards the mother? If its tit for tat try and curb your responses. Yes priority is sticking with whats best for the kids!
 
There is some things unfortunately. There's some comments - one that I have mocked her and called her lazy (I did call her this 3 years ago during separation). She's never worked for 6 years and I got frustrated. Nothing recent.

The other is apparently I have threatened to ask to join a parents WhatsApp in school that she's in. This isn't true at all! I asked to join it so I could be involved in knowing news from school as she wasn't being forthcoming.

Theres other comments more about how it's affecting kids at school and sleep patterns etc.

She has no compromise at all. All I want to do is get on and both of us have an equal relationship with the kids. It was 50/50 with the kids for 18 months then she reduced to 3 nights and now 2. It's not acceptable for the children.
 
Well you have more experience than me as a parent and the position you have been in before as co parents. Sounds like you are at the beginning of a familiar story for many of us separated fathers though.

Although I do have experience below.

Being at the early stages of the child arrangements is a vital time - however disappointed you may seem by the solicitors letter. Keep your head together and as you have already said always, always keep child focused. Anything you do now can turn a fairly OK situation into a full blown problem. As said earlier it's a time of feeling threatened and she can attack by using defence and playing a victim (re:calling her lazy etc).

Anything can happen here but I would advise that you want to get to your first hearings without being hit by a non-molestation (threatening, mocking her) whatever it is - it can be used as some sort of domestic abuse and they can put the non-molestation on you within a few days. This can dramatically change the way your application for Child Arrangements goes. Particularly the speed of the whole court process.

Have everything in writing (email/texts) for your evidence - don't do it face to face if she's starting to steam...

One about the school updates and group chat... Is the group monitored by someone of the school or is it strictly parents? Parents maybe tricky as you'll just have to suck it up and as another parent to invite you into the group. You have parental rights? If so I simply contacted the school via email. Be brief, polite and to the point. Tell them you have parental responsibility, it's OK to say that you are in the process of a child arrangements and you would like to have updates about child(s) and news about the school. The mother will probably try and freeze you out of all this if she wants to get really sour.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ash
It's a parent's WhatsApp group.

She thinks I have no right to be part of it.

All I wanted to do was receive any of this information myself instead of Via a third party.
 
She hasn't stopped overnights, she's reduced them to weekends only as the nights in the week with me aren't quality time (her words - it's the same at hers though surely) but she says I can have them after school take them for dinner and drop them off before bed. All feels financially motivated.

I've not taken her upon this. She always says I let you have xyz, like.its.all her decision. Very patronising makes.me
It's a parent's WhatsApp group.

She thinks I have no right to be part of it.

All I wanted to do was receive any of this information myself instead of Via a third party.
My legal case started with minor arguments at handover at exes front door and little slights on school parents WhatsApp group .. Escalated to legal letters , non mol , supervised visits 2 1/2 years of court cases. Be careful mate not to react & stay child focused and cover your arse in any correspondence.
 
Sorry, busy day lots of good advice above. Ignore the solicitors letter. They are stressful but there's not much there really - yes she's complaining about you but they won't really consider those as allegations. No doubt she is just trying to make a case knowing you're having your Cafcass call. I got a lot of these nasty solicitors letters once I'd applied to court - accused of poisoning my son! Not feeding him, all sorts. It was all ignored because it only came up after I applied to court and she'd never complained before about my care! Situations vary of course - I'd been looking after my son for years before I had to reply to court.

The other thing is it's a kind of tactic by her solicitors and her to get into your head and hope you mess up or go away. So just ignore.

21st is quite a way off, so a few days before you could do some preparation (writing things down helps). Maybe come on here and ask about preparing then when it's nearly time. So it's fresh. But generally be prepared to be asked fastball questions like - Mrs Ex says you did xyz. So you don't react. That's main advice. Don't react and say "she's a liar" - you pause for a moment to gather yourself and have one of your prepared lines ready like - well I'm sorry Mrs Ex said that, I of course don't agree that was the case and I think perhaos she is just upset that I have applied to court. I would much prefer to have sorted things out amicably regarding arrangements, and did try.

You then want to try and steer the conversation onto things that you want to get across -like talking about the kids. So you get the opportunity to sound normal rather than someone who is just put on the spot answering questions - that can help - to psyche yourself up to be "normal" as if chatting to a normal person and sound upbeat about the kids and say how your daughter/son has such a cheeky sense of humour and likes xyz and you would love to get some regular time again so you can carry on doing these activities and chats.

That kind of thing. Every interview is different in my experience - my first one was quite easy and went very well - I only got one fastball question at the end. Which I thought I'd handled but apparently didn't! Learned from that. But the report was overwhelmingly in my favour. The bit i messed up was - Mrs Ex says you're controlling. How do you reply to that. I just calmly said - well the thing is Mrs Ex has a very strong personality and likes to be in control so if you don't agree with her she thinks that's controlling.

What the report said was "Mother says Father is controlling, Father says Mother is controlling". Which was not good because they are then basically tarring you both with the same brush as if you're both silly argumentative parents hurling insults at each other. Which then undermines the horrifically serious stuff she was actually doing at the time. It didn't matter in the end as that all came out at final hearing with evidence. The main thing was the rest of the report was positive about me and negative about my ex.

My second one was for an enforcement hearing and that was horrible. I had this nasty impatient woman speaking rudely to me and firing questions at me - the call came out of the blue with no appointment letter, and I was at work and couldn't talk properly. Again it tried to make out that both parents were at fault (even though it was my ex who breached the order!).

So that is why everyone says - DO NOT say anything remotely negative about the ex. Let your ex do all the mud slinging - that's ok - then it's just her making accusations. If you're both negative about each other then you get tarred with the same brush.

So - you want Cafcass onside. All Cafcass want to know is - are you a good parent. They see a good parent as one who is positive about the other parent (because that's better for the kids) and who says upbeat positive things about the kids (ie shows their close relationship by doing so and makes it more personal so you're not just "another Dad" wanting an order blah blah).

The report never reads well - most people say they misenterpreted what you said or got it wrong - but the important thing is that they find there are no welfare issues - then it proceeds. If both parents are negative about each other - they think - welfare issues - kids in the middle of hostile parents. If only one parent is negative they think - just needs a bit of mediation or dispute resolution to reach agreement.

The mantra is - "I just want my kids to have happy loving relationships with both parents". Say it more than once if necessary. So if she says - Mrs Ex says you do xyz and the kids don't want to come blah blah. You say - I'm sorry Mrs Ex feels that is the case, I think she's maybe upset - but I just want the children to have happy loving relationships with both parents. Then you try and talk about something good about the kids and things you know about them - like - my son and I regularly make paper aeroplanes - he's a real enthusiastic creative boy and I'd like him to be able to do these things with me still and enjoy time with both parents.

That kind of thing. The other thing that can help is actually saying something good about the ex. And your tone of voice. So if the fastball is another Mrs Ex says xyz. You maybe sigh a little and say, oh dear. No I don't agree with that either. Mrs Ex is a very good organiser and very efficient and the children are always well dressed and well fed - their home life is good there, but I just want the children to be able to have happy loving relationships with both parents.

In other words - stop the nerves and psyche yourself up to be calm and relaxed, honest but careful with words. You're deflecting being put on the spot and being child focused and positive about Mum. The little things like a friendly sigh can be disarming - to show them you were expecting this kind of thing.

And yes bullet points on a piece of paper - come back and ask about that the week before :)
 
So - the Cafcass call is purely to determine if there are any welfare issues. If there aren't it's straightforward after that. First hearing, interim order, wait for final hearing - and that is the stage where you can show, via evidence, text, emails etc the nasty stuff she's done - and the court get the picture. Plus you're in the right so you'll get an order - why shouldn't you see your kids. Cross examination should hopefully trip her up and prove she's lying and the more she slags you off in her final statement the better! Because she's just showing herself as hostile and she won't get anywhere because Cafcass already decided - no welfare issues.

So the Cafcass call is an important first hurdle. How you come across and what you say is more important than anything she accuses. But it's pretty hard to have to hear and read the stuff that's been said about you. So don't let it get into your head. Put the solicitors letter to one side and focus on doing something pleasant or normal for a day. In 24 hours you feel better and think more rationally.
 
My ex is suddenly forthcoming with information my kids do when they're not with me. They attend clubs etc when they're with her and she's randomly starting sending pictures and videos of them. Never really done this before - odd.
 
My ex is suddenly forthcoming with information my kids do when they're not with me. They attend clubs etc when they're with her and she's randomly starting sending pictures and videos of them. Never really done this before - odd.
Odd isn't it? Sweetness and light, as if anything before can simply evaporate.

I had a similar experience....months of no info concerning my D's welfare, medical and educational needs, despite various letters to her legal reps reminding them of the deficiencies this brought to my D's overall care and the severe reduction in overall effective co-parenting.

Then, all of a sudden, I was told quite a bit for a period of time. I thanked her via legal reps and pointed out this information overload merely demonstrated the severe paucity of info provided previously.

One swallow doesn't make a Summer!

Take care, SS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash
She's probably building up her evidence (or so she thinks) 1) To say - look I share info with Dad and it's all amicable - no need for an order. and 2) Look how happy the kids are with me and with such a great life - why should they give up their activities for a binding schedule.

Neither of which are relevant so ignore. Unless you think they need a response. If you do respond, be careful, as she may also be fishing for "evidence" in your responses. Like if you reacted saying - what are you doing booking that night when kids should be here - she'd try and use that against you. Or if you responded saying - great - the kids look really happy - she'd try and use that against you and say you agreed to it! So best not to respond at all unless absolutely necessary.

Incidentally they don't have to give up activities, they can have them when they're with either parent.
 
Hi everyone, I have my CAFCASS call on Thursday now, quite nervous about it so will be sitting down and writing some bullet points later.

My ex has been nice as pie, no longer being patronising, giving me info being civil very friendly at drop offs and pick ups very strange.

One thing that's concerning me is she has offered the kids to me after school until bedtime but I can't have them overnight, I have not taken this offer as they're used to coming home to mine and staying over and I don't want to upset them!

She said a few weeks ago there is no quality time weekday evenings because they're just going to bed but if I'm collecting after school and dropping off at hers then surely her arguement swings back that there's no quality time at hers if they're just going go bed at hers after being with me?
 
I think you're right to be concerned about her midweek 'offer'. Concerned because it proposes a break in routine for your children and that ism't good.

However, I wouldn't be over thinking the apparent contrariness of quality time experiences etc. This is par for the course and best summed up as do as I say, not as I do. Keep looking at the bigger picture, however apparent these instances are towards disruption for children and control of you.

I recommend you draft some bullet points for CAFCASS, do something else and then come back, review and do some more.

SS.
 
Back
Top