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Final Hearing

Yes let the dust settle. It's an even better result if the case was heard by magistrates. It seems unfair for those who can't afford a barrister, but a barrister can really persuade magistrates particularly, as well as a Judge. They listen to them.

Did you get defined wording for your order? For the holidays and term time schedule? My ex sought ways to disrupt the shared care order (which was defined) - things like booking weekly activities etc. to some degree that's ok - you can just go along with the odd activity on a school night and agree to it. But you always have the option to say - something else happening this week and it's your time so you get to decide.

There is no "start date" to the summer holidays in my order - it got left off. Which caused no end of trouble each year, with ex saying the holiday weeks started on a Friday or a Monday or whatever, so hard to plan in advance. If no start date though, it should default to the last day of term.

I have trouble this year as last day of term is a Wednesday! But don't worry. I'm sure your ex will keep to the order after going through all that court case. Mine did for about 18 months and only kicked off again when son got older. How old are your kids?
 
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Km5 said:
I know Ash will agree with me 100% that until 50 - 50 care at the beginning of separation becomes the starting point and usual ( providing their are no known circumstances against either parent that would make it unsafe ) then the Courts and the system will be used by vengeful parents putting their own controlling interests first and way above that of their children.

The cost both financially and emotionally, the time a parent loses during children's most important formative years through a Family Court system having to operate way beyond it's capacity, is simply appalling.

Reading your post through S.D. it seems you started with 50- 50% but your Ex withdrew it..... and today the Courts have on evidence adjudicated that she was wrong to do so. I would be in favour of a system where costs would be awarded against an Ex in situations like this without exception and be properly implemented. It would cut out so much of the anxiety and harm done to all concerned.
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Absolutely. It's a tax on Dads and causes unnecessary harm to children.
 
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I've not had the order yet but it's being put together by my barrister for submission to other side.

The magistrates said the order should say the days the kids are with mother and father and that collection of kids are from school, which means there's no handover between parents it's all at school (except holidays obviously). The days are set out for whether it's school holidays or not so kids have a consistent routine.

I'll be speaking to barrister later on today to make sure it's specific enough.
 
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fantastic news Saddad and im sure you will agree all the stress of going through this has paid off. the children are the real winners in this situation and i applaud you for fighting for your rights, parenting should be equal from separation, something which hopefully is going to change in our legal system sooner rather than later, and victories like this are the stepping stones.

well done sit back and enjoy
 
That's great news Saddad. I'm very happy from your victory. It gives hope to all fathers that are fighting for their children. I'm in similar situation going now through the court process. First Hearing soon. Hopefully I can get positive result. Thanks to this forum and help from here I could make my court application possible.
 
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Make sure the final order is water tight and you are happy with it before you approve it. Dont leave anything open to interpretation otherwise you risk having to go back to court again to close any gaps. Better for the order to be comprehensive to the end detail to eliminate the possibility of any misinterpretation from either side which may lead to further conflict and court action.
Don't let your guard down until a sealed final order is in your hands.
 
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Define when school holiday start and end...i.e from when school finishes (regardless of inset days etc) or the Monday after. This is often one that leads to further disputes
While it is good to allow some wiggle room for the allocation of holiday time. Define certain parameters like each parent should be allowed to have larger continuous blocks of time such as 2-3 weeks during summer again so there can be no bullshit later down the line.
 
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Following on from that, depending on how old your kids are, I'd go for a clear split of the summer - half the summer each (which is 3 weeks and a few days each). Although it might seem too long to go without seeing your kids. But I've had no end of problems with the two week and one week block thing. Mainly because of my manipulative ex and the fact there was no "start date" for the summer holidays in the order.

So if you go for the two week and one week block each, make sure there is a "start date"! ie Friday school finishes or first Friday after school finishes (term ended on a Wednesday here this year). Because most holiday bookings go Saturday to Saturday.

This year I have a problem in that ex goes away the saturday I return! Somebody has to give way if there's a time crossover.

For kids 7 and over I'd say - go for the clear split - first half or second half of summer holidays alternating each year - and a video call a week when child is away from a parent for a week or more (so the time away isn't so bad). Gives both a clear window to book a two week holiday without encroaching on the other parent's holiday - and still have some normal time at home as well. And no emailing constantly about dates!
 
If your barrister is writing up the order, ask to see a draft before it goes to the other side or to court - I'm sure they'd do that anyway. Basically - clearly defined dates and times for term time and holidays. So no arguments.

There is also usually a clause (necessary) that says "Such further and other times as agreed by the parties in writing".

What that means is - although the defined dates and times seem rigid, you can still have normal flexibility - provided both are agreed. Some flexibility is expected. So if it says you return child at 6pm on x day and your ex says she's not back till 8pm - agree to that! If she says - she needs him back early at 4pm because they're going somewhere. Say you;ll agree "on this occasion" and would like this to be reciprocated on another occasion. If she won't be flexible herself when you need to do something early or late then don't agree to any changes again.

Takes a bit of getting used to. If there's a change - it needs to be in writing (text or email however informal) by both parents. If it's not agreed in writing it's a breach. And you want to avoid accidental breaches. All it really means is being sensible and businesslike about things. I was advised, if agreeing to any change to do it very formally. And follow the agreed time change with "on this occasion and then the arrangements will revert to those within the court order". To make it crystal clear it's a one off and nothing else has changed (ie it hasn't set a precedent).
 
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Well done Saddad!! It's always nice to see good news like this, it gives us all hope! Wish you all the best.
 
Thanks for all these messages guys, it really means alot

In terms of the order, it states specifically the days when they are with each parent. Also says pick up collection is from school unless during the holidays. Also says can take kids on holiday for upto 14 days giving 3 months notice to other parent.

Also says these set days are the same whether it's school term or not which gives the kids the consistency I always wanted. I'm happy there's no room for anything here, I've made sure I'm not negotiating later down the line.

It's not been sealed yet but the draft looks fine to me.
 
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Ok. So It's the term time schedule all year around, except either of you can take the kids on holiday for up to 14 days? Is the schedule 1 week on 1 week off or 2-2-5-5? The only issue I can see with holidays is if your ex is the manipulative difficult type. If it says "half the school holidays" as well it sounds fine. Otherwise she could book holidays over all the school holidays! Which is something my ex does - and works to pay for them she is so determined to keep my son away.
 
It's 2-5-2-5, I haven't had final order yet or the latest draft so will take a look when it comes over before submitting to other side.
Also CMS are still saying I need to pay even through its equal, any suggestions how to fight this? I'll be paying school things, breakfast and after-school clubs, swimming lessons, going hospital and doctors appointments, getting more food and clothes for them. Makes no sense
 
What reason did CMS give? When I asked them about this one he said they wouldn't be able to decide without seeing a copy of the order - as even if it says "lives with both parents, they need to see who is the parent with care. I said - we're both the parent with care - it's a "lives with both". He said not in the way they work it out - they consider the parent with care as the one who takes them to the Doctors, dentists etc, so they need to see the order. Someone else mentioned that they count the day hours as well as the overnights. But if yours is a full 50/50 order then there shouldn't be any extra day hours.

Be polite with them as I'm sure you are, and ask if they can assist in working this out. I actually didn't have 50/50 but it was shared care - I just wanted to find out if it made any difference if it was shared care. It doesn't. Unless it's a full 50/50.

You shouldn't be having to pay it - but I'd offer to send them a copy of the order when you get it. Let them argue with that.
 
Saddad i was in a similar situation where CMS still said i had to pay the EX even though i was granted shared care. Their ridiculous reason behind this is that the EX is the one who receives child benefit and therefore is seen as the primary carer. i disputed this with my court order highlighting the fact it is equal shared care and by definition of the court order there is no primary carer. I had to put it in writing to a specialist claims team in the CMS department who looked at my case. It was then changed and they had concluded i would pay no more.

my advise is call CMS ask for the details for an appeal and advise them of the grounds. that you have a court order and that it is equal parenting. It will have to be put in writing to them but the outcome should be the correct one which is no more CMS payments under a 50/50 shared plan.
 
Thanks guys, I have spoke to them and they went through a list of 8 questions with me about who pays what etc so will ring ex and if she agrees will close it. If she doesn't then I'll have to wait for court order and will go down your angle Gurmukh. Feels like it's a constant battle!
 
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Hi everyone, so my ex has rejected it being closed. I spoke to CMS and they said as she's in receipt of benefit for both child she is deemed primary carer. I'll wait for the court order and then go from there but in the meantime still have to pay her child maintenance payments.
 
It's ridiculous bureaucracy. The whole system is geared to the parent in receipt of child benefits being "the main" parent - LEA's are the same. And they won't split the child benefits and pay them to two parents! That can only be done by agreement. If it's done by agreement you could each receive the benefit for a child each (assuming there are two - doubt that would work if there were 3!).

So she didn't agree so they're going with the default that she gets the child benefits. Yes it sounds like you will have to do what Gurmukh did. But send them the court order first, when you get it and say - it is equal shared care, regardless of who receives the Child Benefits. See if that helps. That CMS system needs a complete overhaul. This is what we're up against. The whole of society and government giving too much power to Mothers and enabling all these situations that lead us having to go to court to see our kids.
 
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