Final Hearing - Mother’s relocation abroad

[Ash]

Please try and appeal this decision. You’ll get a different Judge.

Just to clarify to others - the Mother ALWAYS has the right to relocate. Human rights law that she can live wherever she wants. So the argument is - whether or not the child should be relocated. This comes down to - who does the child live with. So it was probably always going to be a case of - which parent is the resident parent, and which one visit - if the Mother decides to go abroad.

However in one Uk relocation case, the Judge made an order for the children to live with the Father and said it was then up to the Mother if she still wanted to move or not and if so she'd have to travel to see the children. Obviously travel in the Uk is a lot easier and more frequent than the other side of the world.

But that is what the Judge should have been looking at. Not deciding whether the Mother could relocate, but deciding who the child would live with "if" the Mother decided to relocate. It should have been residency with you. Then your ex could decide whether to get another job in the Uk or decide to go back to the US.

As you say - there are probably many grounds for appeal - it was a final hearing, not a fact find, for a start off. Take a few days to get over this awful experience and then think.

Although of course your ex might jump ship before you get chance to appeal so it would probably need doing quickly.

 

[3ML WMD]

Just to clarify to others - the Mother ALWAYS has the right to relocate. Human rights law that she can live wherever she wants. So the argument is - whether or not the child should be relocated. This comes down to - who does the child live with. So it was probably always going to be a case of - which parent is the resident parent, and which one visit - if the Mother decides to go abroad.

However in one Uk relocation case, the Judge made an order for the children to live with the Father and said it was then up to the Mother if she still wanted to move or not and if so she'd have to travel to see the children. Obviously travel in the Uk is a lot easier and more frequent than the other side of the world.

But that is what the Judge should have been looking at. Not deciding whether the Mother could relocate, but deciding who the child would live with "if" the Mother decided to relocate. It should have been residency with you. Then your ex could decide whether to get another job in the Uk or decide to go back to the US.

As you say - there are probably many grounds for appeal - it was a final hearing, not a fact find, for a start off. Take a few days to get over this awful experience and then think.

Although of course your ex might jump ship before you get chance to appeal so it would probably need doing quickly.

Thank you Ash,

I will see what my barrister says, it was possibly the worst judgement I have seen. Was definitely more of a personal attack then a balanced judgement. He also went against the Cafcass officers recommendation for my daughter to stay

 

[Ash]

I was thinking that too. Maybe get another opinion as well - some barristers specialise in appeals. Or you could do it yourself.

 

[Ash]

It’s worth a shot as it sounds very biased.

 

[Ash]

Grounds of appeal need to be worded a certain way though - you can’t just say the Judge was biased unfortunately. But I am sure there are some grounds - and the Cafcass recommendations.

 

[Ash]

First thing you need is a copy of the transcript. It doesn’t matter if you don’t get it in time to submit the permission to appeal application - it can be used later. But it could be back within 3 weeks because it won’t include the Judgement - you already have a copy of that. So you tick for hearing and post hearing discussion but no Judgement.

You can get the form for that on the court website. Fill in the form and choose a transcription company from the list. Tick the 48 hour option. And post or take it into the court. The court can take up to three weeks to process the application and send it to the transcription company - you can chase them after two weeks. Once with the transcription company they can turn it around and email it to you within 2 days.

If it was a 3 day hearing it might cost about £300.

“Your grounds for appeal must be based upon what the judge did wrong in Law NOT what social services, CAFCASS, the guardian or your ex did wrong. Neither can it be that you disagree with the judgement.

It must be something like for instance. “The judge failed to look at the evidence I had provided to the court.” or “The judge failed to put enough weight on the child’s wishes.” or “The judge relied on false evidence and failed to listen to my objections.”


There are a lot more grounds can be raised than the examples above. For example / the Judge failed to consider the bond the child has with the Father at an impressionable age during early childhood and ignored Cafcass recommendations in this regard. Then quote a bit from the Childrens act.

 

[Ash]

Link for that quote won’t post for some reason but it’s from family court support.social

 

[Peanut 21]

Leading on from Ash, grounds of appeal can be that the judge went against cafcass recommendations.
It seems odd this Judge disagrees with 3 of his peers also.
You need to use the Child welfare list to justify an appeal.

 

[3ML WMD]

First thing you need is a copy of the transcript. It doesn’t matter if you don’t get it in time to submit the permission to appeal application - it can be used later. But it could be back within 3 weeks because it won’t include the Judgement - you already have a copy of that. So you tick for hearing and post hearing discussion but no Judgement.

You can get the form for that on the court website. Fill in the form and choose a transcription company from the list. Tick the 48 hour option. And post or take it into the court. The court can take up to three weeks to process the application and send it to the transcription company - you can chase them after two weeks. Once with the transcription company they can turn it around and email it to you within 2 days.

If it was a 3 day hearing it might cost about £300.

“Your grounds for appeal must be based upon what the judge did wrong in Law NOT what social services, CAFCASS, the guardian or your ex did wrong. Neither can it be that you disagree with the judgement.

It must be something like for instance. “The judge failed to look at the evidence I had provided to the court.” or “The judge failed to put enough weight on the child’s wishes.” or “The judge relied on false evidence and failed to listen to my objections.”


There are a lot more grounds can be raised than the examples above. For example / the Judge failed to consider the bond the child has with the Father at an impressionable age during early childhood and ignored Cafcass recommendations in this regard. Then quote a bit from the Childrens act.

Yeah based on these grounds I have a shot at appeal. He didn't even mention the bond I already have with my daughter and refused more evidence like bank statements when it would have shown where her money had gone etc etc.

Honestly if I felt that he took a balanced view and this was his outcome I wouldn't feel as annoyed. But it's the fact that he didn't seem to care what was good for my daughter that was most troubling. It's like he had a crush on my ex, honestly

It's just whether I have the energy and money to go through all this again. I will see what my barrister comes back with, but ill look into barristers that specialise in appeals.

 

[Ash]

Wouldn't surprise me if he did! (Have a crush on your ex). Swayed by a pretty face maybe? It isn't quite going through all that again - an appeals process would be different. It could be worth it for either a better result, or closure.

 

[Ash]

You could do the application yourself and just use a barrister for any hearing maybe. Happy to help with the application.

 

[Peanut 21]

It's just whether I have the energy and money to go through all this again. I will see what my barrister comes back with, but ill look into barristers that specialise in appeals.

You could do the paperwork. Get it posted and then take a few days out to recharge your batteries.