Do courts support 50:50 shared care these days?

[bakedapple]

I'm going to court after a prolonged battle of discussion, mediation and now court. Its taken 3 years from the initial separation / divorce to this final hearing due to ex's deliberate procrastination and passive non-engagement.
I'm after 50:50 - is this something others have reasonably achieved, or are the courts still in the dark ages?
If so, what arguments have won the day?

My big fear is that I'm fighting what is now a de-facto arrangement that I have never agreed with, and her argument is that it is now too disruptive on the children to change that arrangement.

 

[Ash]

That is always the big fear and what the ex's try to achieve - by saying he's hardly seen them for three years and they're settled blah blah. But don't worry.

Ok so have you been getting any interim time with the kids? What ages are they? I would suggest, if at all possible, that you use a direct access barrister for the final hearing as you are much more likely to get the best possible order that way.

 

[bakedapple]

Yes - I've moved house to be close to them; I see them every other weekend, one weeknight and for a few weeks in the holidays. I'm fed up with her controlling and rationing access. Direct access barrister lined up for final hearing. Children 10 and 13.

Late in the day but cafcass s7 wishes and feelings report due just in time for final hearing; cafcass initially said not their problem in the initial fact finding hearing. In first dispute hearing, she used this to cause further delay to the final hearing as she got the judge to order them to produce a w&f report. The whole process has been deliberately strung out.

It will hinge on the s7 report, but my gut feel is that the children are unbothered as to which home - they just want stable parenting. The children may vote slightly in her favour as that is what they know, but wouldn't complain if the ruling is 50:50.

 

[Ash]

I'd have a guess at Cafcass saying - same time as now and live with Mother and spend time with Father. But a good barrister can undermine that and still you get you 50/50 shared care. With your childrens ages though, the 13 year old's "wishes" in particular will be taken seriously. No doubt why your ex managed to get it dragged out so long so the kids were older before a final hearing. There is still an argument though, that their best interests outweigh their wishes.

At the end of the day, if you get what you have now plus half the holidays, that isn't so bad, but I would say to the barrister that you would still want it to be "lives with both parents" even if not 50/50. Barristers are clever. One good answer they have is "well why not 50/50?" When the other side argue all the reasons children should live with the Mother. The question "well why not 50/50?" is a very good one as it puts the other side in the position of having to come up wiht good reasons why not - and there aren't any really.

 

[Roblox]

I'm going to court after a prolonged battle of discussion, mediation and now court. Its taken 3 years from the initial separation / divorce to this final hearing due to ex's deliberate procrastination and passive non-engagement.
I'm after 50:50 - is this something others have reasonably achieved, or are the courts still in the dark ages?
If so, what arguments have won the day?

My big fear is that I'm fighting what is now a de-facto arrangement that I have never agreed with, and her argument is that it is now too disruptive on the children to change that arrangement.

On your last paragraph that is the issue a lot of the time. The Father moves out the family home and then the arrangment is effectively set. I did similar and didn't realise that it was thereafter going to be difficult to fight against.

If you get close to 50 50 that's a good result. In the context of navigating the system as opposed to what the outcome should look like.

 

[Anon3000]

To give you some hope, my partner was recently given 50/50 lives with, and his arrangement at the point of going to court was the same as yours i.e. one weeknight plus every other weekend.

whether it should be 50/50 was not even a question in court, it was a given. The only thing the court were interested in was what the 50/50 would look like and getting a schedule that was good for the child.

The magistrates did rely very heavily on the S7 report and verbal evidence from the cafcass officer, which was in dad's favour. Dad constantly emphasised the importance of parents playing an equal part in child's life, whereas mother did not consider dad to be equal, and made excuses as to why dad shouldn't have 50/50. Dad was always polite and reasonable whereas mum was entitled and rude, and I do think this helped dad look good in the eyes of cafcass.

Get yourself a good barrister, be ultra reasonable through gritted teeth and don't rise to her bait.

 

[Ash]

And that’s why it’s good to try and get Cafcass inside and don’t criticise the ex - focus on winning over Cafcass as to what a good child focused Dad you are. Let the ex dig her own hole.

 

[bakedapple]

To give you some hope, my partner was recently given 50/50 lives with, and his arrangement at the point of going to court was the same as yours i.e. one weeknight plus every other weekend.

whether it should be 50/50 was not even a question in court, it was a given. The only thing the court were interested in was what the 50/50 would look like and getting a schedule that was good for the child.

The magistrates did rely very heavily on the S7 report and verbal evidence from the cafcass officer, which was in dad's favour. Dad constantly emphasised the importance of parents playing an equal part in child's life, whereas mother did not consider dad to be equal, and made excuses as to why dad shouldn't have 50/50. Dad was always polite and reasonable whereas mum was entitled and rude, and I do think this helped dad look good in the eyes of cafcass.

Get yourself a good barrister, be ultra reasonable through gritted teeth and don't rise to her bait.

Yes, that is really helpful and hopeful!

A few questions:
1. Age of children at the time and what their wishes and feelings were
2. Had the ex tried to establish a status quo at the time, and did this have any impact on the case?
3. Which court / area of the country? I'm wondering if there is any regional variation in approach

Its a fine line of not criticising the ex, yet, at the same time, showing how she is not co-parenting but parenting as if single mother with the role of Dad as a second class parent.

 

[Anon3000]

1. Child was 10 at the time of the final hearing, but 9 at the time of cafcass S7 interview. He was balanced about both parents but expressed to cafcass that he wanted more time with dad.
2. Status quo had been in place for about 5 years but did not appear to have a noticeable impact. After cafcass interviews, the ex threw dad scraps of time e.g. an hour after school on certain days in the hope this would count as 50/50(!) and make her look good. This had no impact with the court or cafcass.
3. South east.

If you want more detail I'm happy to chat over private message, I'm still a bit angsty about putting too much detail on the main forum just in case ex or one of her crazy friends/family hunts me down.

Yes we struggled a lot with not criticising the ex but yet needing to be honest about the situation...the only way we got round it was by writing the witness statement as we saw it and then our solicitor re-wrote it in a less derogatory manner

 

[Ash]

I think Anon's case was quite serious. There are two main reasons for awarding 50/50. The first is if there are no welfare issues and in that case there is no reason not to award 50/50 - if it's a recent separation. If there has been an established pattern of say 4 nights a fortnight for a few years, then you're less likely to get 50/50 because courts don't like changing established patterns - but you could get an extra night making it 5 nights a fortnight.

The other reason is if Parental Alienation has been proved (that is not the same as PA being accused by the way) - proved either by psychologists reports or Cafcass deciding it is PA (which is quite rare).

The point there is - don't accuse PA thinking it will help get 50/50 because it's more likely to lead to minimal time because that means there are welfare issues if both parents have made accusations.

If an ex is attempting to alienate, one of the best ways to prevent that is to get 50/50 - if that makes sense - so arguing why the child needs both parents/homes rather than accusing anything, but using any damning emails and texts as evidence at final hearing to show why it needs to be 50/50.

What people need to keep in mind is - no evidence is seen before a final hearing. So it's about having a smooth course to get to a final hearing. The early parts of a case - Cafcass, FHDRA etc - are all about establishing if there are any welfare issues, investigating any allegations etc - and once that is done and it's determined there are no welfare issues, then it moves to a final hearing - and then the gloves are off. Assuming a consent order hasn't been reached earlier at FHDRA (they can be negotiated sometimes).

These are highly emotive situations and when people go in all guns blazing it can have consequences.

 

[Anon3000]

I think Anon's case was quite serious. There are two main reasons for awarding 50/50. The first is if there are no welfare issues and in that case there is no reason not to award 50/50 - if it's a recent separation. If there has been an established pattern of say 4 nights a fortnight for a few years, then you're less likely to get 50/50 because courts don't like changing established patterns - but you could get an extra night making it 5 nights a fortnight.

The other reason is if Parental Alienation has been proved (that is not the same as PA being accused by the way) - proved either by psychologists reports or Cafcass deciding it is PA (which is quite rare).

The point there is - don't accuse PA thinking it will help get 50/50 because it's more likely to lead to minimal time because that means there are welfare issues if both parents have made accusations.

If an ex is attempting to alienate, one of the best ways to prevent that is to get 50/50 - if that makes sense - so arguing why the child needs both parents/homes rather than accusing anything, but using any damning emails and texts as evidence at final hearing to show why it needs to be 50/50.

What people need to keep in mind is - no evidence is seen before a final hearing. So it's about having a smooth course to get to a final hearing. The early parts of a case - Cafcass, FHDRA etc - are all about establishing if there are any welfare issues, investigating any allegations etc - and once that is done and it's determined there are no welfare issues, then it moves to a final hearing - and then the gloves are off. Assuming a consent order hasn't been reached earlier at FHDRA (they can be negotiated sometimes).

These are highly emotive situations and when people go in all guns blazing it can have consequences.

Totally. References to PA need to come from cafcass, not from dad. My partner was fortunate in that he sat back and watched the ex unwittingly dig her own grave. He provided evidence of the PA (texts / emails from ex) at the final hearing and let the court draw their own conclusions. Until then it was all about pressing the point that child needs BOTH parents.

Massively frustrating not being able to say it how it is, but you learn to be passive, and that passiveness pays off in the long run. Shows the ex up to be the confrontational one who doesn't want to co-parent, and dad being the reasonable one.

 

[Ash]

Good advice Anon.

 

[KG70]

I think Anon's case was quite serious. There are two main reasons for awarding 50/50. The first is if there are no welfare issues and in that case there is no reason not to award 50/50 - if it's a recent separation. If there has been an established pattern of say 4 nights a fortnight for a few years, then you're less likely to get 50/50 because courts don't like changing established patterns - but you could get an extra night making it 5 nights a fortnight.

The other reason is if Parental Alienation has been proved (that is not the same as PA being accused by the way) - proved either by psychologists reports or Cafcass deciding it is PA (which is quite rare).

The point there is - don't accuse PA thinking it will help get 50/50 because it's more likely to lead to minimal time because that means there are welfare issues if both parents have made accusations.

If an ex is attempting to alienate, one of the best ways to prevent that is to get 50/50 - if that makes sense - so arguing why the child needs both parents/homes rather than accusing anything, but using any damning emails and texts as evidence at final hearing to show why it needs to be 50/50.

What people need to keep in mind is - no evidence is seen before a final hearing. So it's about having a smooth course to get to a final hearing. The early parts of a case - Cafcass, FHDRA etc - are all about establishing if there are any welfare issues, investigating any allegations etc - and once that is done and it's determined there are no welfare issues, then it moves to a final hearing - and then the gloves are off. Assuming a consent order hasn't been reached earlier at FHDRA (they can be negotiated sometimes).

These are highly emotive situations and when people go in all guns blazing it can have consequences.

Hi @Ash . Regarding 50/50. In my case no welfare issues but it is not a recent separation with a pattern only in place because ex imposes it. Is 50/50 not likely as you say?

 

[Ash]

How long has the pattern been going on and how many nights a week is it?

 

[KG70]

How long has the pattern been going on and how many nights a week is it?

Since September 2022. Two nights a week

 

[Ash]

Are any of those nights at week-ends? ie what is the schedule - a midweek night and one night at week-ends? I think you'll get more than that but it might only be 5 nights a fortnight (which could still be shared care). It's still best to ask for 50/50 though as you can negotiate down but not up usually.

 

[KG70]

Are any of those nights at week-ends? ie what is the schedule - a midweek night and one night at week-ends? I think you'll get more than that but it might only be 5 nights a fortnight (which could still be shared care). It's still best to ask for 50/50 though as you can negotiate down but not up usually.

Sunday and Monday night. I am asking for 50/50. I live 5 mins away from school and ex house.

 

[Ash]

How old is child/children?

 

[KG70]

Boy will be 7 next month.

 

[anon1234]

Boy will be 7 next month.

Did you get 50/50 in the end? Would like to know as I am going through a similar issue?