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Civil Action during Family Proceedings

It's a case of keeping your head down, jumping through hoops. Complying with whatever comes next. Getting Cafcass onside. Avoiding behaving as badly as her. Let her show herself up. This situation is very common. The goal is to get to a final hearing where you can present evidence and get a good order (her statement will no doubt be full of lies and mud slinging and that is easy to prove as no welfare issues by then and then her statement is ignored).

At the moment you're stuck in the limbo period of having welfare issues looked into. She is causing delays by bringing up these allegations and hoping you will either throw in the towel so she can have her own way, or get angry and mess up. Don't do that.
 
Also don't let her get into your head. That's partly why these allegations get to you - it's like psychological warfare. And yes it is hellish to be accused of things. But - you haven't been arrested (I think), this is purely within the family court sphere she is making these allegations. Cafcass will get it sorted at a section 7 - but in the meantime you don't want Cafcass finding any fault with you.

It's almost like trying to keep up the relationship fighting at a distance. She wants a reaction from you. Don't give her one.

I expect her next strategy will be to submit her list of allegations the day before the next hearing with some excuse about why she couldn't meet the deadline, in the hope she has you unprepared. Your position statement will already say - you understand her list of allegations has not been submitted to court so you assume there are none and you ask the court to dismiss them. Eg your position statement goes in a few days before the hearing (only to the court at this stage) and her list of allegations goes in the day before the hearing. The court already knows you didn't receive them in time.

Her strategy being to get that next hearing adjourned because you haven't had time to prepare responses to them. But the court didn't ask you to respond to them did they? Just her to submit them?

The main thing is your position statement argues that a) she has not complied with a court order b) that these allegations were raised after Cafcass found no welfare issues and you could even ask for it to go straight to final hearing. Whether it will or whether there's a Section 7 is another matter.

When you say she stopped the kids coming after a year of regular time - what else was happening at that time to trigger this? Did either of you meet a new partner? These are all details that can be persuasive and keep the court focused.
 
I would echo the others. Get the hair strand test done. If that proves nothing serious and there's nothing else of substance your ex quickly will run out of options and will be pushed to comecup with a compromise.
 
Well what a week I have had. My adjourned FHDRA was on Tuesday. I think I am only now emotionally steadied enough to tell you how it went.

I must admit, you guys gave me a lot to think about. I poured over your very good and sound advice for most of the weekend of 11th November. You were all absolutely right in that advice, that despite my ex not providing her half of the hair strand test fee, I should pay for and do it anyway as that was the right thing to do. I must tell you, I made the decision to ignore your advice!

I made the decision to stick to my guns as she had been ordered in the interim order to transfer to me £350 of the £700 hair strand test fee. She had also been ordered to submit to the court and all parties a list of all DV allegations against me with dates and times and outcomes. Neither of these were complied with. She was in breach of the order.

It was a massive gamble, and I have never been as nervous as I was waiting to connect to the remote hearing. I was literally shaking as I tried to take sips of water to wet my dry throat.

It paid off! Straight off the bat the DJ shone the spotlight on my ex and asked her where was the information ordered and where was the money for the test? I had highlighted very clearly in the position statement for this hearing that I had tried to complete the test under my own steam after giving up waiting for her half of the money but I ran out of time as I could not afford it all myself. Your words of advice were ringing in my head as the DJ queried what the situation with this matter was and I was prepared for my decision to backfire. But it didn't. My explanation in the statement did the trick and the DJ squarely blamed the failure to comply with my ex. She tried to blame me and came out with a whole raft of excuses which didn't add up or excuse why she had failed to comply.

Another unusual aspect of this hearing was that my dads application for a CAO for his own time my son was permitted and his and my cases were consolidated and heard together. She was up against me, my barrister and my dad.

After chewing her out over her failure to comply with the interim order, the DJ then asked her about my sons contact with my dad. Prior to her stopping contact in March, my dad was picking him up for dinner every Sunday and often had him overnight. They have a very strong grampy/grandson bond.

She began to shout at the DJ. Making all kinds of spurious allegations that my dad smacked my son and that sleeping arrangements weren't suitable. The DJ is now beginning to see for himself what I spent years dealing with. Her aggressive, pathological lying.

The DJ finally said that he did not support these allegations and, in accordance with the CAFCASS report that states that my sons contact with his grandfather had been a vital part of his upbringing and stopping contact was not in his best interest, decided that direct contact should resume. To which my ex replied; "make whatever f*****g order you want, he ain't f******g having anything to do with my kid!"

The DJ began to explain the reasons for his decision and as he was trying to talk my ex is shouting over him telling him that she decides where her child goes and that he can make whatever order he likes, she will not comply with it!!

The DJ then said; "I strongly advise you to remember where you are and who you are talking to. I am the judge here, not you." To which she replied; "I don't give a f*** who you are mate, nobody tells me who I can and can't let my son see!"

Things then took a turn for the worse for her, but better for me. The DJ decided that no separate FFH will be needed. I still need to provide the hair strand test so that the alcohol allegations are afforded the appropriate due diligence and disproved, but she has been ordered again to provide her half of the fee by the end of November. He advised her that of she does not comply, that will be considered a third breach of a court order and he will impose unpaid work on her. Her reply was; "yeah right!"

He then advised her that her confrontational manner is not going to end well for her and strongly advised her that she should appoint legal representation as she is on course to have her son taken off her!!

She advised the DJ to "go f*** himself" and she hung up and left the video call.

The DJ has set a Final Hearing for the end of January, and my barrister has advised me that I should prepare to assume the role of resident parent!
 
I had to read that again to make sure I am not imagining things.

She did all that without being held in contempt? 😲

Well done Kyle!

Is the case reserved to same DJ?
 
Me too! Wow! As they say - give her enough rope ........ Well done for going with your gut instincts - you know the case better than us. Keep being whiter than white and let her show herself up. I strongly recommend you immediately send for a transcription of that hearing in the hope you get it in time for final hearing - it can be used as evidence. The form should be on the court website. It's a fiddle. When you fill in the form you have to decide which transcription company to use and they say get a quote first. I phoned the first one on the list and the quote was reasonable so I ticked that one. Also on the form you have to tick whether you want the whole hearing including the Judgement or just the Judgement. Tick the whole thing including the Judgement (if there was a Judgement which it sounds like there might have been). You then send the form to the court (or take it in it's quicker). They can take 2 to 3 weeks to process it then they send it to the transcription company. Once it's at the transcription company they can turn the main hearing around in a few days and email it to you. But if there's a Judgement they have to send that bit back to the court first as the Judge has to approve that bit - so it could take weeks to get to you. And you might need to chase it up in January. If you don't get the Judgement in time, don't worry you can just use the transcription for the rest of the hearing (or parts of it). It could cost between £80 and £180 depending how long the hearing was, but it's worth every penny.

I hope it is the same DJ but that is another reason to have the transcription - in case it's a different Judge - the transcription (or the bits you use) means the new Judge gets to see what happened at the previous hearing and how the previous Judge responded. And they will go with that.

Will you have time to get the alcohol test done in time for the final hearing?
 
Tip - successful day but don't celebrate with a drink!
 
I had to read that again to make sure I am not imagining things.

She did all that without being held in contempt? 😲

Well done Kyle!

Is the case reserved to same DJ?

Thank you! I had to read it back too as it's hard to believe it's me I'm talking about. I think she has been held in contempt, I'm not sure. It was absolute chaos. I'm waiting for the court papers to come through so I can try and digest it all. In the post hearing chat with my barrister he said that in 30 years of working in private family law he has never witnessed a party tell a judge to "go f*** himself!" It will be the same DJ, I hope! It's not changed in the last 3 hearings.

Me too! Wow! As they say - give her enough rope ........ Well done for going with your gut instincts - you know the case better than us. Keep being whiter than white and let her show herself up. I strongly recommend you immediately send for a transcription of that hearing in the hope you get it in time for final hearing - it can be used as evidence. The form should be on the court website. It's a fiddle. When you fill in the form you have to decide which transcription company to use and they say get a quote first. I phoned the first one on the list and the quote was reasonable so I ticked that one. Also on the form you have to tick whether you want the whole hearing including the Judgement or just the Judgement. Tick the whole thing including the Judgement (if there was a Judgement which it sounds like there might have been). You then send the form to the court (or take it in it's quicker). They can take 2 to 3 weeks to process it then they send it to the transcription company. Once it's at the transcription company they can turn the main hearing around in a few days and email it to you. But if there's a Judgement they have to send that bit back to the court first as the Judge has to approve that bit - so it could take weeks to get to you. And you might need to chase it up in January. If you don't get the Judgement in time, don't worry you can just use the transcription for the rest of the hearing (or parts of it). It could cost between £80 and £180 depending how long the hearing was, but it's worth every penny.

I hope it is the same DJ but that is another reason to have the transcription - in case it's a different Judge - the transcription (or the bits you use) means the new Judge gets to see what happened at the previous hearing and how the previous Judge responded. And they will go with that.

Will you have time to get the alcohol test done in time for the final hearing?

Thank you for this Ash. I had no idea you could apply for the transcript. I thought it was all highly confidential. I do have produce and submit a Witness Statement, so this will come in handy. I will get on with trying to get my hands on this.


Tip - successful day but don't celebrate with a drink!

:ROFLMAO: I feel like I have been in chains for most of this year and they have finally been taken off. I am high on the feeling of being nearly at the finish line.


I used Ubiqus, the cheapest. There was stuff missing, but it was quick. Not sure if paying more gets a more comprehensive document.

Thanks so much Res. I'm all over it!!
 
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I used Epiq - very reliable and quick - wasn't expensive. If you phone them they will give you a ballpark quote but mine was about £120 for a half day hearing including the judgement.

 
I'd get it anyway - even if it's just to frame it. Seriously though - you never know if you might need it for another hearing in the future.
 
Well done. Wow!

Aas soon as it doesn't go their way the mask slips.

Do you or your Dad get contact before January?
 
I'd get it anyway - even if it's just to frame it. Seriously though - you never know if you might need it for another hearing in the future.

I’ll be keeping the entire bundle in its folder indefinitely to show my son when he’s an adult. Just in case there’s any doubt as to which of his parents fought for him the most!
 
Well done. Wow!

Aas soon as it doesn't go their way the mask slips.

Do you or your Dad get contact before January?

Thanks.

My dad has had his direct Sunday contact reinstated.

I must still use a contact centre.

He says he’s just waiting to receive the order in the post to understand exact days and times. And as soon as that’s clear. The first Sunday he’s driving round to her house to knock on the door. He did say he’s expecting her to be out or not answer. In which case, he will have an Enforcement Order form and the £167 fee ready to go as soon as he returns home.

She’s not going to go down without a fight.

It’s a shame the police don’t get involved in this instance as it’s ordered by a court.
 
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Well done!

Echo everything above. Re transcript, first check with your Sol that the DJ is retained, if so I don't think it necessary.

SS.

Good point, I'd probably avoid using a transcript for hearing under the same judge. They might not take too kindly to the implication that they don't know what happened in their own hearing.

Might be prudent to have it anyway, DJ for my second hearing was swapped out for another the night before.
 
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Bloody hell!!! I don't think I've ever been so happy for someone I have never met before in my life! I am so pleased for you. I only wish my partners ex would f**k up as blatantly.
 
He then advised her that her confrontational manner is not going to end well for her and strongly advised her that she should appoint legal representation as she is on course to have her son taken off her!!
Well done Kyle, almost exactly the same situation i was in, my ex smirked and laughed at the Judge when contact was ordered and she was warned about changing residency to which she laughed out loud in court.

At the next denial of contact, and you know its coming, you need to apply for change of residency this time. It looks like the kids would be better off away from such a bitter wretch.

Also i would advise against your dad going to knock on her door with out any backup or video evidence as he's setting himself up for false accusations here.
 
Good point, I'd probably avoid using a transcript for hearing under the same judge. They might not take too kindly to the implication that they don't know what happened in their own hearing.

Might be prudent to have it anyway, DJ for my second hearing was swapped out for another the night before.
Exactly - best to have it anyway. It's an insurance policy. And strangely they make quite good reading when it went your way!
 
Well done Kyle, almost exactly the same situation i was in, my ex smirked and laughed at the Judge when contact was ordered and she was warned about changing residency to which she laughed out loud in court.

At the next denial of contact, and you know its coming, you need to apply for change of residency this time. It looks like the kids would be better off away from such a bitter wretch.

Also i would advise against your dad going to knock on her door with out any backup or video evidence as he's setting himself up for false accusations here.
Agree totally - your Dad could maybe take someone with him who can stay in the car and video him going to the door. If he does go to the door and knock, suggest he then stands back from the door 2 or 3 feet. In case she gets unpleasant then he can walk back further - and it'll all be on video. In fact if she did get unpleasant and it's on video then maybe the Police would get involved.
 
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