Civil Action during Family Proceedings

[Kyle]

Has anyone been in a position where there is a significant and ongoing issue of false allegations being made against you publicly, which as the potential to do serious harm to your professional reputation as well as cause significant harm to you personally which is linked to your order sought in Family Proceedings?

What are the implications of suing your ex partner for libel during or after the Child Arrangements Order process?

The Defamation Act 2013 is the primary piece of legislation governing this area, supplemented by earlier legislation and decisions made by the Courts.

As well as a defamation claim, there may be other causes of action such as a claim for malicious falsehood.

For most people what springs to mind when defamation is mentioned are high-profile cases involving well known personalities suing the press. There are many famous examples, involving celebrities such as Sean Penn, Kate Winslet, Cliff Richard and of course, Johnny Depp.

But this area of the law is relevant to people from all walks of life across a very wide range of contexts. According to recent figures, celebrity claims only accounted for 6% of reported defamation cases in the UK in 2017. In recent years, there have been cases reported in the press involving claims between teachers and pupils’ parents (that school in London where a parent said the head mistress was a bully), between businesses and their employees, and between husbands and wives.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere when an ex partner takes to social media to spout the lies she's also using to deny your child their father. Except these lies are in public for whole world to see.

Do you let it go for the sake of maintaining peace in the Family Proceedings or do you fight for justice for yourself?

 

[Ash]

I looked into this myself a while back as I also wanted to sue! But it seems it really is just a case that it's for the very wealthy. It costs vast amounts to sue for defamation and it's very difficult to prove apparently. I think there's a high benchmark for proof. I accepted it just wasn't possible.

It's wrong that people should get away with things. It is possible for the police to prosecute for perverting the course of justice (false allegations) but it seems to rarely happen - I expect they are inundated with false allegations re divorce and don't have the manpower or resources for most of them.

One way someone can be prosecuted though is for harrassment. If I had pursued it I could possibly have to got my ex prosecuted for harrassment. They have a formal warning first and if they do it again they can be prosecuted. I still think the Police/a court would be soft on sending a Mother to prison for that and it may be just a fine or something.

I find it all quite shocking - particularly in cases where a Mother has inflicted emotional harm. One argument I saw as to why that is swept under the carpet was - it's accepted that parents can be harsh with kids as part of their upbringing. Well yes but it's inappropriate when it's about the other parent. Then you get back to the family court situation again as nobody is interested in the other parent apart from family court. And they think you should co parent regardless - even if horrific allegations have been made. Surprisingly that is actually possible (at a distance) after the immediate trauma has worn off a bit.

 

[Kyle]

How does perverting the course of justice work in Family Proceedings? I contacted my local MP to ask for help and although he offered a lengthy condolence he said he couldn't get involved in court matters but in a case where malicious falsehoods were being made, that amounts to perjury even in the family courts.

The police have already been called and they identified that an earlier incident was an offence under the Malicious Communications Act, but they did nothing.

Proving it shouldn't be difficult with screen shots of various incidents. But it all comes down to you paying yet more money and even if the other party is found guilty what are the consequences? If they are made to pay damages but have no money it's all a waste of time. Spending thousands on solicitors just to get an apology doesn't seem to be worth the costs.

Prosecution for harassment seems impossible. Is controlling and coercive behaviour a crime?

 

[Ash]

Is controlling and coercive behaviour a crime?

It should be. It probably comes under DA generally and of course they don't prosecute women for DA (not often I think).

It should be for children - but I think in family court terms that would just be classed as "reprehensible behaviour" and PR curtailed by making a "lives with both" order, or the Mother told not to do it again.

There's a lot of info here on prosecuting re the malicious communications act. Looks very wordy

Social Media - Guidelines on prosecuting cases involving communications sent via social media | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

I have read of one case were the Mother was done for perjury - I am not sure how - I assume the family court referred it to the criminal court. It seems very rare.

It's all "best interests of the child". They don't seem interested in what a parent has done - unless it's a Dad!

 

[blindex]

How does perverting the course of justice work in Family Proceedings? I contacted my local MP to ask for help and although he offered a lengthy condolence he said he couldn't get involved in court matters but in a case where malicious falsehoods were being made, that amounts to perjury even in the family courts.

The police have already been called and they identified that an earlier incident was an offence under the Malicious Communications Act, but they did nothing.

Proving it shouldn't be difficult with screen shots of various incidents. But it all comes down to you paying yet more money and even if the other party is found guilty what are the consequences? If they are made to pay damages but have no money it's all a waste of time. Spending thousands on solicitors just to get an apology doesn't seem to be worth the costs.

Prosecution for harassment seems impossible. Is controlling and coercive behaviour a crime?

My ex lied right, left and centre. I had a tonne of evidence against all her lies but neither the judges or Cafcass were interested other than to deny her a fact finding hearing. I was able to demonstrate through my statement and evidence that I was the actual victim of domestic abuse. I had the police disclosure where she told a police officer that she thought she was a victim of financial abuse because she couldn't get access to MY bank account (that's financial abuse trying to control someone else's bank account).

In theory she should be found in contempt of court for lying in a statement of truth. But like everything else in the family courts, it takes a phenomenal amount of bad behaviour from the mother for that to happen. It is rare....

This is why the system is completely bankrupt, for mothers it is a simple risk v reward equation. They face no consequences whatsoever for lying their socks off and the rewards are huge...

Dare we say anything against the mothers, we are immediately labelled as high conflict, and Cafcass simply recommends less contact with the sensible parent to appease the mother.

I'm writing a book about my court experience to expose the injustice and brutality of the system against good, decent fathers.

 

[Ash]

Let us know when it's published!

 

[Kyle]

It makes your heart sink!

I have now, two versions of a Court Bundle. The Truth Bundle, that contains exhibits detailing her controlling, abusive, threatening, manipulative and often contradictory text messages. Screenshots of her public Facebook posts where her and her father accuse me of domestic and child abuse and include indirect threats against me from the rest of her family, (even though it was me that spent years being gas lighted). All supported with what is a combative position statement protesting this campaign of abuse that I am being subjected to purely out of spite with my son being used as the primary weapon to facilitate that campaign of hate.

I also have The White Flag Bundle, where I don't include any of this appalling behaviour meted out against me and only include my positive view of why my son should have his father in his life, completely ignoring his mother and her Jeremy Kyle family for fear that the Family Court completely fails to see who is on the receiving end!

A crime is surely being committed when you're coming under sustained attack in the form of publicly made malicious falsehoods against your character and receiving threats of violence. But it just feels there is absolutely no help.

I am going to call 101 and ask to speak to the police again about where the line is crossed here. And also see of I can get a free 30 minutes with a solicitor to get their view on suing for libel.

 

[blindex]

It makes your heart sink!

Kyle, where are you in terms of court proceedings? Your ex and family are committing domestic abuse against you...

I say this because my ex initiated court proceedings against me with a whole raft of false allegations. Very naively I wanted the courts to find the mother in contempt of court for the abundant lies in her statement, and also bring my own allegations of abuse against her.

The advice I received is that contempt of court for lying is rare.

In relation to my own allegations against my ex, I had no choice but not to pursue them. The issue is that

• she had the kids, and if we were going to have a Fact Finding Hearing, I could be waiting for a very long time for progression of contact to occur
• Even if findings were made against her, nothing would happen to her in terms of a transfer of residency or greater contact towards me
• She was legally aided, and the legal costs for a FFH are astronomical
• The whole FFH can be decided against the word of one parent against the order. Thus findings could have been made against both parents, in which case the non-resident parent has got to lump it....

In the end, my strategy was to avoid a FFH, but if the judge decided that one was going to take place I'd then bring my allegations of abuse to the table.

In essence, we're fucked.

 

[Scotay]

It makes your heart sink!

I have now, two versions of a Court Bundle. The Truth Bundle, that contains exhibits detailing her controlling, abusive, threatening, manipulative and often contradictory text messages. Screenshots of her public Facebook posts where her and her father accuse me of domestic and child abuse and include indirect threats against me from the rest of her family, (even though it was me that spent years being gas lighted). All supported with what is a combative position statement protesting this campaign of abuse that I am being subjected to purely out of spite with my son being used as the primary weapon to facilitate that campaign of hate.

I also have The White Flag Bundle, where I don't include any of this appalling behaviour meted out against me and only include my positive view of why my son should have his father in his life, completely ignoring his mother and her Jeremy Kyle family for fear that the Family Court completely fails to see who is on the receiving end!

A crime is surely being committed when you're coming under sustained attack in the form of publicly made malicious falsehoods against your character and receiving threats of violence. But it just feels there is absolutely no help.

I am going to call 101 and ask to speak to the police again about where the line is crossed here. And also see of I can get a free 30 minutes with a solicitor to get their view on suing for libel.

From experience i would use your White Flag Bundle every time and focus on being child orientated.

I was in this position years ago. Accused of everything, domestic abuse, assault, child abuse, rape, financial controlling, coercive controlling, fraud, theft and even burning down a house in a different country 100s of miles away when i was sat at home.

Went to see a solicitor as she was repeating these allegations to everyone and anyone and on social media. Best advice a got told, tell her to prove it or STFU.... There's no point suing somebody for deformation when they don't have a pot to piss in.. To sue, YOU need to shell out all your costs up front and hope you get found innocent they have to pay costs. You ant get costs out of somebody who has nothing i was warned by my solicitor.

All these women think if they go into court with this story of what you did and when and how evil you are that this is the first time a judge has ever heard it... These judges listen to this BS week in week out and know the script on how it goes.

I sat in court during my hearings and let her sound of lies about me for 2-days solid, even her mother said same story word for word. I just sat and said nothing, i didn't have to, its up to them to PROVE IT.

In the end the judge basically called her and her mothers evidence as collusion, basically a pack of lies. The punishment for lying in court..nothing.

Sit there in court and focus on the kid/s, you don't have to argue and disprove any allegations its them that have to prove it and when they cant and don't get the gaslight reaction from you it makes them rant even more.

 

[blindex]

From experience i would use your White Flag Bundle every time and focus on being child orientated.

I agree with you, the onus is on the person making the allegations to prove they are true. Sadly the family court is a circus and unlike the criminal courts there is absolutely no rules whatsoever in relation to allegations and evidence. Of course, in criminal cases the bar has to be higher, but that is not to say that the civil courts should not start adopting better rules and guidelines in relation to allegations and evidence.

Findings can be made just based on the words of one parent against the other and who sounds more credible on the stand.... And findings can be made on any crap your ex throws in, perhaps on a single text message, from a single day....

If there is evidence that the ex is lying, then spell it out to the court in your statement that it is a false allegation, a vicious lie. I think what should be avoided is a tit-for-tat (i.e. I did this, but she did that).

My ex lied to her teeth, behaved badly in court at one point looking at messages in her mobile phone while the judge spoke about the need for the parents to work together, and absolutely nothing happened to her. She did not even get criticised for lying.

Of course, be child focus, but that again does not mean you should behave like a door matt. Just make sure the statement is balanced, that the rebuttal to your ex is done in a cool tone (She claimed I did this, but I have this message that shows X), and include plenty of evidence about your role as a parent and how you love your children.

 

[Ash]

Agree with Scotay. Remember what this is about. The only reason you’re going through all this is because you applied to court for an order to have decent time with your kids. And the ex is creating as much disruption as possible to try and prevent that - either in the hope you’ll give up and go away or that you’ll get angry and she can then say “See he’s aggressive “.

What you want is to get to a final hearing and get a very good court order. Then you can ignore her and have more power. The way to get that is jump through the hoops and be polite and keep saying “I just want the children to have happy loving relationships with both parents”. Then you are seen as a good Dad and child focused.

 

[Kyle]

I think you gents have saved me from falling from my own state of grace here. Thank you! The past few weeks have seen me come under sustained attack from all angles in the run up to a re-scheduled, adjourned FHDRA and my backs against the wall. I've been severely rattled. I've nearly been sucked into fighting fire with fire when I should be fighting fire with water.

I really wish I could sue the arse off all of them. But I need to let it go.

The White Flag Bundle it is. But its not a surrender as the name implies it just doesn't give all of their pathological lies any airtime and is all focused on my boy.

 

[Ash]

You win by not letting them win. It'll be yesterday's chip paper in a year or two. They must be really desperate to be causing you all this aggro.

 

[Kyle]

You win by not letting them win. It'll be yesterday's chip paper in a year or two. They must be really desperate to be causing you all this aggro.

They are a twisted bunch. I've also decided not to go ahead with a hair strand alcohol test. The cost was ordered to be split 50-50 after she demanded it and I have (almost) ended up paying all of it, so I am not going ahead with it at all now. I'm not sure how this will affect the outcome of my next hearing but I'm not getting lumbered with all of it. This will undoubtedly push the court to going to a FFH and add another 4 months onto my sentence of suffering.

 

[blindex]

They are a twisted bunch. I've also decided not to go ahead with a hair strand alcohol test. The cost was ordered to be split 50-50 after she demanded it and I have (almost) ended up paying all of it, so I am not going ahead with it at all now. I'm not sure how this will affect the outcome of my next hearing but I'm not getting lumbered with all of it. This will undoubtedly push the court to going to a FFH and add another 4 months onto my sentence of suffering.

Hi Kyle,

I don't know the facts of your case, but I'd suggest you want to think twice about a Fact Finding Hearing, specially if you're a litigant in person. It is not just 4 months of delays, it could take almost a year... If you go straight to a Section 7 report, that could take at least 5 months from the day it is ordered to the day you're back in court to discuss the report in front of the judge (Cafcass requires 15 weeks now to complete one from the date they receive the order). For a FFH to take place, you may need to have a pre-trial hearing first, then fact finding, and from experience this takes months. Only after the FFH, the court will then order a section 7. It might be that you then go straight to a Final Welfare Hearing. I know also of cases where you can have the case decided together with the FFH.

 

[Kyle]

After ex and I broke up and I moved out it was informally agreed between us that I would have my son every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday night.

After just over a year of that arrangement she stopped this because of allegations I drank too much.

I filed a C100 after attempting Mediation. At the first hearing the court took the CAFCASS recommendation that nothing supported claims I was unfit to be a parent and separating my son from me was not in his best interest. They were about to give me my order there and then. Realising her alcohol abuse allegations had failed, ex then accused me of DV.

First hearing was then adjourned, ex was ordered to submit numbered and dated list of historic DV incidents and I was ordered to provide a 6 month hair strand alcohol test to decide at this adjourned FHDRA if a separate FFH is required.

It was ordered that the cost of the £600 hair strand test was split equally. She's not offered to pay her half. She's not provided the list of DV allegations.

I'm not sure how the court is going to progress and order a FFH. But she's not delivered on her obligations and I'm not footing the bill myself.

 

[StayStrong]

After ex and I broke up and I moved out it was informally agreed between us that I would have my son every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday night.

After just over a year of that arrangement she stopped this because of allegations I drank too much.

I filed a C100 after attempting Mediation. At the first hearing the court took the CAFCASS recommendation that nothing supported claims I was unfit to be a parent and separating my son from me was not in his best interest. They were about to give me my order there and then. Realising her alcohol abuse allegations had failed, ex then accused me of DV.

First hearing was then adjourned, ex was ordered to submit numbered and dated list of historic DV incidents and I was ordered to provide a 6 month hair strand alcohol test to decide at this adjourned FHDRA if a separate FFH is required.

It was ordered that the cost of the £600 hair strand test was split equally. She's not offered to pay her half. She's not provided the list of DV allegations.

I'm not sure how the court is going to progress and order a FFH. But she's not delivered on her obligations and I'm not footing the bill myself.

Unless the results, in your opinion, are not going to be favourable, be the better person for your kindred's sake. £300 Is nothing by comparison.

@blindex is spot on.

Take care, SS.

 

[Kyle]

The results will not show that I drink so much my sons welfare is at risk. A Friday pint is hardly alcoholism. The fee is over £600. I can't afford that.

So unless I provide this test result, the DJ will likely push for a FFH? It feels like the focus of that decision centres around the DV allegations, to which she's not provided details of.

 

[StayStrong]

So unless you provide what will be a favourable strand test you will pay considerably more both in £££'s and seperation to go through a FFH.

Think a different way: why won't she pay £300?

'Cos she wants to screw you.

SS.

 

[Ash]

If you were ordered to provide a 6 month hair strand test, then not doing so could count against you. I hear you that she is supposed to pay half. If she refuses to pay she will still accuse you of drinking too much and the court will just say - where is the hair strand test that was ordered. If you say - she wouldn't pay her half so she clearly doesn't think it's an issue - they may say - but it was court ordered to be provided. And think you have something to hide. It will probably get ordered again and cause a few more months delay.

So - if this hair strand test is produced and no issues (as expected) it could go straight to a section 7 as you could argue the later allegations were only brought up after you agreed to do a hair strand test and she was ordered to pay half and they have proved you don't have alcohol issues and that these were false allegations, as are the allegations of DV and you ask for the matter to go straight to a section 7.

If she hasn't submitted anything for a fact find - she is probably going to leave it till the very last minute so you don't get much time to prepare.

She will keep trying to derail the process. It's common for a hair strand test to be ordered - like jumping through another hoop. And yes it's costing you. It could cost a lot less than the alternative though of a year or two of stress and a bad result as the whole thing gets stuck and intractible.

It's wrong you should have to pay for it but I would get it done and then in your next position statement, say that Mrs Ex refused to pay for her half, despite it being court ordered and this makes you feel she is unlikely to comply with any future orders so you wish to change your application to shared care 50/50 - so Mrs Ex is aware both parents are equally important to the children and to give them more security with you by means of this type of order.

What that does is throw the ball back in her court. There's a lot of bluff and double bluff. If you up the game she may get worried you might get it and back off from making allegations. That kind of thing. It's what barristers do when negotiating - they say to each other - if you won't drop this we will go for that. That kind of thing. And manage to do a deal sometimes.

So I would see her failing to pay her half of the hair strand test as something to help your case - you can turn that back on her as described above. By saying she is unlikely to follow any other court orders so you feel an order needs to be much tighter.

Throughout this process a Dad has to be seen as the sound reliable one. She didn't follow the order but you need to. Can you borrow the £600 for this hair strand test?

It's unfair, stressful and frustrating - but it can get worse. So keep it as short and simple as you can. Or you could end up with no order and a long period of stress over all this.