Thanks for the near immediate response! I'm happy to go with whatever is easiest for you. Your feedback would be gratefully received.
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Child Arrangements Hearing Advice
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Make sure you eventually file the letter from optometrist as it will nullify the bullshit in her C1A and make her look a bit silly although she has already done that to a certain extent by trying raise your medical condition in the context of a c1a which is usually reserved for actual abuse or harm. Makes me laugh Ex's do love a C1a form but judges have seen it all before.
For what it's worth proactively seek out and book yourself onto a spip course ahead of it being ordered. I think it cost me a hundred pound or something like that a few years back Keep this in your back pocket as it is likely the judge will follow carcasses recommendations pretty closely and when they discuss ordering a spip drop it on them that you have already taken one of your own accord which will no doubt impress them just make sure you have proof of attendance with you in court. When I dropped it on my judge, he was really taken aback and almost laughed saying in all his time as a judge it was the first he has heard of someone proactively booking themself on a spip without it being ordered but it certainly made the right impression
For what it's worth proactively seek out and book yourself onto a spip course ahead of it being ordered. I think it cost me a hundred pound or something like that a few years back Keep this in your back pocket as it is likely the judge will follow carcasses recommendations pretty closely and when they discuss ordering a spip drop it on them that you have already taken one of your own accord which will no doubt impress them just make sure you have proof of attendance with you in court. When I dropped it on my judge, he was really taken aback and almost laughed saying in all his time as a judge it was the first he has heard of someone proactively booking themself on a spip without it being ordered but it certainly made the right impression
I understand what you are saying. The issue I think I'm having is I don't know what the court can order. I'll have another go at re spinning that list of child arrangements order noting your point about the parenting plan whilst trying to boil out the key "must haves".
Good suggestion. I have just emailed the local SPIP provider.
Do bear in mind that if a spip was eventually ordered by the court you would get it for free. So its a case of if you are willing to spend £100 or so and around 2-3 hours of your time for some brownie points in court.
Hey bubble
You touched on the fact that 50/50 might not actually be the best option for you.
Give some thought to how this level of contact would fit in with your life logistically not just now but for the next dozen or so years. Nursery and eventually school drop offs or pick ups potentially 6 times a week. What happens when you return to work. Is this level of contact going to limit the jobs you can get and where etc.
It's good to aim high but not so that could be seen by the court as being unrealistic as this could damage your credibility so to speak. I'm not saying it is unrealistic, just that it would be better to be able to clearly demonstrate your ability to take care of your childs needs going forward based on say a 40/60 split of time (which can still be a 'lives with both' order) than to leave questions marks about the feasibility of your proposals....although a 40/60 split would have implications on future CMS payments.
Don't fall into the trap of coming across too focused on the numerical split of time. Judges don't like that. A child is not a pie. The split of time needs to be seen to practically fit around all of your lives and what is ultimately in the best interests of the child and offers them the most stable routine.
What your ex has already said to the carcass officer is likely to form the brunt of her statement. She has shot herself in the foot somewhat. The caffass officer reports "She has no safeguarding concerns about Mr xxx’s care of child, however, has been reluctant to increase the time child spends with his father due to a health issue suffered by Mr xxx."
She can't have it both ways. If there are no safeguarding concerns that in itself justifies an immediate increase in contact regardless, which you could in theory request at the first hearing for the interim period until the final hearing. You have nothing to lose by doing so and this would emphasise the importance and urgency of you having a more meaningful part in your child's life.
It would seem her main arguments will focus on your ability to care for your child. Which inturn can be broken to 2 parts a)due to your medical condition b} due to your limited historical contact with your child.
This is where you need to focus your defence, quash her arguments first then you can go into the split of.time negotiations on a much more even playing field. you are at an advantage as you can almost preempt her angle of attack due to the details within the caffass letter.
Medical condition - follow Ash's solid advice around getting a doctor's note... a clear concise official letter from the doctor covering all of relevant points your ex is likely to raise. Back it up with a note from the optometrist and anyone else who comes across 'official' and can vouch for your level of physical ability to care for a child on paper. The caffass officer alludes to the fact that once reassurances are provided in terms of your medical condition there are no further blockers for additional contact being granted.
Limited historical contact - I assume this is largely down to your ex's selfishness and there is nothing that could be seen as justifying this limited level of contact. Do you have any young family members or friends that you spend time with or could be seen as being responsible for from time to time, if you could portray that in your statement it was cast a positive light. As would demonstrating how well you are able to currently look after your child during the 6 hours a week you have them now not forgetting to mention the limitations and impact on your child the current level of contact results in.
Clarify that that your mum is no longer providing you care and if anything its opposite
Bear mind the Fhdra will likely only be an hour tops and most of this time will be spent on trying to get you guys to agree on something. You or your barrister will only have a matter of minutes to briefly highlight the arguments / requests made in your statement and giving the court a feel for the complexity of your case. use this time to swiftly quash any question marks around your ability to provide adequate overnight care for all of your childs needs and by doing so defending against the possibilty of this being a focal point of the rest of your case.
If you can't agree on something and if I was you I wouldnt for anything less than every other weekend fri to Mon and one midweek overnight each week minimum ...but doesn't sound like your ex would be willing to go there anyway, the court will then move on to giving directions for the rest of your case.
Gonna have to leave this here for now as I'm struggling to see the words in the screen but
I hope this gives you a slightly different angle on things and some insight from someone who has been round the loop more times than he cares to remember.
Don't be crushed if you don't initially get what you want. It can be built upon and nothing stopping you from reapplying in a year or twos time with an even stronger argument for equal shared care.
Now I'm getting a bit ahead of myself but it is worth familiarising yourself with the appeals process, if it doesn't eventually go your way prior to the final hearing finishing you should discuss with your counsel the topic of asking the judge for the permission to appeal is it can be advantages to do so at the final hearing itself.
Good luck.
You touched on the fact that 50/50 might not actually be the best option for you.
Give some thought to how this level of contact would fit in with your life logistically not just now but for the next dozen or so years. Nursery and eventually school drop offs or pick ups potentially 6 times a week. What happens when you return to work. Is this level of contact going to limit the jobs you can get and where etc.
It's good to aim high but not so that could be seen by the court as being unrealistic as this could damage your credibility so to speak. I'm not saying it is unrealistic, just that it would be better to be able to clearly demonstrate your ability to take care of your childs needs going forward based on say a 40/60 split of time (which can still be a 'lives with both' order) than to leave questions marks about the feasibility of your proposals....although a 40/60 split would have implications on future CMS payments.
Don't fall into the trap of coming across too focused on the numerical split of time. Judges don't like that. A child is not a pie. The split of time needs to be seen to practically fit around all of your lives and what is ultimately in the best interests of the child and offers them the most stable routine.
What your ex has already said to the carcass officer is likely to form the brunt of her statement. She has shot herself in the foot somewhat. The caffass officer reports "She has no safeguarding concerns about Mr xxx’s care of child, however, has been reluctant to increase the time child spends with his father due to a health issue suffered by Mr xxx."
She can't have it both ways. If there are no safeguarding concerns that in itself justifies an immediate increase in contact regardless, which you could in theory request at the first hearing for the interim period until the final hearing. You have nothing to lose by doing so and this would emphasise the importance and urgency of you having a more meaningful part in your child's life.
It would seem her main arguments will focus on your ability to care for your child. Which inturn can be broken to 2 parts a)due to your medical condition b} due to your limited historical contact with your child.
This is where you need to focus your defence, quash her arguments first then you can go into the split of.time negotiations on a much more even playing field. you are at an advantage as you can almost preempt her angle of attack due to the details within the caffass letter.
Medical condition - follow Ash's solid advice around getting a doctor's note... a clear concise official letter from the doctor covering all of relevant points your ex is likely to raise. Back it up with a note from the optometrist and anyone else who comes across 'official' and can vouch for your level of physical ability to care for a child on paper. The caffass officer alludes to the fact that once reassurances are provided in terms of your medical condition there are no further blockers for additional contact being granted.
Limited historical contact - I assume this is largely down to your ex's selfishness and there is nothing that could be seen as justifying this limited level of contact. Do you have any young family members or friends that you spend time with or could be seen as being responsible for from time to time, if you could portray that in your statement it was cast a positive light. As would demonstrating how well you are able to currently look after your child during the 6 hours a week you have them now not forgetting to mention the limitations and impact on your child the current level of contact results in.
Clarify that that your mum is no longer providing you care and if anything its opposite
Bear mind the Fhdra will likely only be an hour tops and most of this time will be spent on trying to get you guys to agree on something. You or your barrister will only have a matter of minutes to briefly highlight the arguments / requests made in your statement and giving the court a feel for the complexity of your case. use this time to swiftly quash any question marks around your ability to provide adequate overnight care for all of your childs needs and by doing so defending against the possibilty of this being a focal point of the rest of your case.
If you can't agree on something and if I was you I wouldnt for anything less than every other weekend fri to Mon and one midweek overnight each week minimum ...but doesn't sound like your ex would be willing to go there anyway, the court will then move on to giving directions for the rest of your case.
Gonna have to leave this here for now as I'm struggling to see the words in the screen but
I hope this gives you a slightly different angle on things and some insight from someone who has been round the loop more times than he cares to remember.
Don't be crushed if you don't initially get what you want. It can be built upon and nothing stopping you from reapplying in a year or twos time with an even stronger argument for equal shared care.
Now I'm getting a bit ahead of myself but it is worth familiarising yourself with the appeals process, if it doesn't eventually go your way prior to the final hearing finishing you should discuss with your counsel the topic of asking the judge for the permission to appeal is it can be advantages to do so at the final hearing itself.
Good luck.
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I'll send you my version over the next couple of days so it might be clearer
And see what you think.
I'll add to what Little Angel says about schedules. Think about what works.
4 nights out of 14 is standard - that's every other week-end from Friday through to Sunday evening and one midweek overnight
5 nights out of 14 (which could be "lives with both parents) is every other week-end from Friday through to Monday morning, plus one midweek overnight.
6 nights out of 14 (which is near 50/50 and could also be "lives with both parents") is the same as 5 out of 14 but one week you'd have two consecutive midweek nights and the alternate week it would be a single midweek night.
7 nights out of 14 is 50/50 (which is "lives with both parents shared care" but you need to specify that, not assume it). That would be the same as 5 .14 except you would have two midweek nights every week. So for a younger child it could be tuesday and Thursday (meaning child would be back and forth between parents every other day which might be too much). Or it could be every tuesday and wednesday consecutive nights. Meaning no long gaps between seeing parents but still changeovers every other day when it's your week-end. the usual is 2-2-5-5. The same two consecutive nights each week, tacked onto your usual every other week-end one week. So for example.
Monday and Tuesday nights with you then Friday for the week-end through to the following Wednesday morning (that;s your weekend plus Monday and Tuesday) then Monday and tuesday nights again the following week, 5 days later.
I wouldn't go for less than 5/14 personally and "lives with both parents". Most people can manage one midweek overnight, even if working, and there are after school clubs when the kids get to school. But as your Mum lives with you, you have someone to delegate to/babysit as well so 50/50, if you can manage it, ensures a stable schedule when they're older and you don't go long gaps.
The long gaps with a standard schedule can be - when your last midweek overnight is before ex's 9 day holiday period for example. Or your next week-end isn't for two weeks after a holiday period ends (because your normal week-end was part of the school holidays).
I found that hard when my son was younger, sometimes going nearly three weeks without seeing him because of the way the week-ends and holiday dates fell. And my ex wouldn't allow phone contact. I tried and failed to get that included in my court order due to some machinations and it would have been pointless anyway as it would have made my son too nervous, knowing Mum was very anti.
So another thing you want to be asking for is - a video call per week whenever child is away from either parent for a week or more.
4 nights out of 14 is standard - that's every other week-end from Friday through to Sunday evening and one midweek overnight
5 nights out of 14 (which could be "lives with both parents) is every other week-end from Friday through to Monday morning, plus one midweek overnight.
6 nights out of 14 (which is near 50/50 and could also be "lives with both parents") is the same as 5 out of 14 but one week you'd have two consecutive midweek nights and the alternate week it would be a single midweek night.
7 nights out of 14 is 50/50 (which is "lives with both parents shared care" but you need to specify that, not assume it). That would be the same as 5 .14 except you would have two midweek nights every week. So for a younger child it could be tuesday and Thursday (meaning child would be back and forth between parents every other day which might be too much). Or it could be every tuesday and wednesday consecutive nights. Meaning no long gaps between seeing parents but still changeovers every other day when it's your week-end. the usual is 2-2-5-5. The same two consecutive nights each week, tacked onto your usual every other week-end one week. So for example.
Monday and Tuesday nights with you then Friday for the week-end through to the following Wednesday morning (that;s your weekend plus Monday and Tuesday) then Monday and tuesday nights again the following week, 5 days later.
I wouldn't go for less than 5/14 personally and "lives with both parents". Most people can manage one midweek overnight, even if working, and there are after school clubs when the kids get to school. But as your Mum lives with you, you have someone to delegate to/babysit as well so 50/50, if you can manage it, ensures a stable schedule when they're older and you don't go long gaps.
The long gaps with a standard schedule can be - when your last midweek overnight is before ex's 9 day holiday period for example. Or your next week-end isn't for two weeks after a holiday period ends (because your normal week-end was part of the school holidays).
I found that hard when my son was younger, sometimes going nearly three weeks without seeing him because of the way the week-ends and holiday dates fell. And my ex wouldn't allow phone contact. I tried and failed to get that included in my court order due to some machinations and it would have been pointless anyway as it would have made my son too nervous, knowing Mum was very anti.
So another thing you want to be asking for is - a video call per week whenever child is away from either parent for a week or more.
Have tweaked your position statement and sent it to you. Less is more And also keeping it more focused about your relationship with your child while briefly correcting ex's incorrect statements. Forget about parenting plans - you don't need one - it was a good idea to have one for mediation but you've gone past that now and asking the court to order the arrangements instead.
And also keeping it more focused about your relationship with your child while briefly correcting ex's incorrect statements. Forget about parenting plans - you don't need one - it was a good idea to have one for mediation but you've gone past that now and asking the court to order the arrangements instead.One point I have yet to raise but has been on my mind is this:
- Before my child was born and during pregnancy, my ex mentioned that she did not want me significantly involved with my child and that she would prevent me from getting onto the birth certificate. Once the child was born I had to fight to get named on the birth certificate. I also had to fight to get a say on naming the child.
- Now with the child at 2 years old, I am 90% sure she has had a second child. and I am fairly confident it was via sperm donation.
- My ex has always mentioned that she would be happy in a single parent scenario, even during our relationship. She herself was raised without a father. Her sister is currently raising her child without a father.
- My ex was very keen to have a child even when the relationship was rocky and frequently dismissed my concerns that a child should have both parents in a stable family.
Lots of great advice littleangel. Yes, I think I've been having such a rough time over the past two years from health and my ex that any step in the right direction and any support from the legal system to contain the malice of the ex will be most welcome. Indeed hearing all the amazing comments from guys like yourself here on this forum is uplifting. Some much needed restoration of faith in humanity!
Ash you mentioned that there's not much point to a parenting plan at this stage, and I agree with that. However the CAFCASS letter mentions that "it would be helpful if I submitted it such that it can be considered". Do you think I should still omit it and explain that I have incorporated the major aspects of it into the position statement (or something along that line)?
What you could do is, instead of writing out in the position statement, what you want in an order, just put - I would like the court to make an order as per the attached parenting plan . There's a good parenting plan template on here (home page) that you download from a site link. It can be edited to add or remove any headings or word it as you like.
. There's a good parenting plan template on here (home page) that you download from a site link. It can be edited to add or remove any headings or word it as you like.
I don't think so. All the court are interested in is - are you a good and safe parent. The Childrens Act amendment allows for the child's right to regular and significant time with both parents. So if there are no welfare issues, a standard order would be every other week-end, a midweek overnight and half the school holidays.
The danger of raising such things is you sound like you're being negative about the Mother. We would all like to be - especially when it's true - but the best way to get a good court order is, ironically, to be positive about the Mother. Which shows you as the "good parent" that wants to co parent amicably (even if that's not going to happen). Gives you brownie points so to speak.
If you do have anything like that (and you'd need documentary evidence), save it for the final hearing and your statement/evidence. You can't submit any evidence before that (apart from the mentioned thing about the eye status as it's been mentioned by Cafcass) - so anything said before that would be classed as he said she said.
It might look bad if you start talking about her personal life choices after separation. But the bit about the birth certificate and naming could be relevant as part of your final statement. Hang fire though.
As many Dads will say - it's a case of jumping through hoops to get to a final hearing and getting a good court order. Along the way you are just calm, respectful and don't say anything bad about the ex.
The world has gone crazy I think - designer lifestyle kids!
If it's any consolation my ex did something similar. This was a long time ago, when it was much harder for Dads to get "contact" orders, before the Child Arrangements Program started. We weren't married and hadn't even lived together. Just dated for a few weeks. I also happen to know (afterwards) that I was basically just a sperm donor! Someone told her she'd get loads of money from the Government and the Dad if she had a child. Despite her seeing someone else throughout, I attempted to keep things amicable so I could see my son. But I was regularly told - you have no rights, you have to pay xyz and I decide everything. I did get informal arrangements for some years (she liked childfree time) but it did end up in court eventually.
Just ignore her. Your child has two parents and your child has a right to grow up with both parents fully involved in their lives. What she chooses to do otherwise is up to her. But yes she will be wanting to be a full time Mum to both kids probably - much more convenient and means more child support! That's probably why she won't let you have overnights - it would reduce the amount of CM.
Just jump through the hoops. Family court isn't quite what people imagine sometimes - it isn't a war between parents about who is right - because the way the court works is Cafcass just want to see if Dad is safe and then they recommend a standard order (or possibly more than that if you've asked for more than that). If you have anything meaty though, save it till final hearing.
It could also be very difficult to prove she tried to stop you being on the birth certificate and anything you say at final hearing needs to be backed up with evidence (eg documents - although emails and texts count as evidence).
It seems clear she is not going to want to "co parent" and have amicable communication. So you need a defined order and minimal communication.
Incidentally if you want involvement with Child's doctor you can do that yourself now, independently. You just write to them (it helps to include evidence of Parental Responsibility - for that I got a Solicitor to write me a one off letter "To Whom it may concern" verifying that I had PR). Once you have a court order you don't need that, the court order proves you have PR.
There's a letter template to child's doctor under Legal Resources above. Basically you just deal with people separately and independently - GP, schools etc - and get your own copies of everything. Confidentially as well.
Just ignore her. Your child has two parents and your child has a right to grow up with both parents fully involved in their lives. What she chooses to do otherwise is up to her. But yes she will be wanting to be a full time Mum to both kids probably - much more convenient and means more child support! That's probably why she won't let you have overnights - it would reduce the amount of CM.
Just jump through the hoops. Family court isn't quite what people imagine sometimes - it isn't a war between parents about who is right - because the way the court works is Cafcass just want to see if Dad is safe and then they recommend a standard order (or possibly more than that if you've asked for more than that). If you have anything meaty though, save it till final hearing.
It could also be very difficult to prove she tried to stop you being on the birth certificate and anything you say at final hearing needs to be backed up with evidence (eg documents - although emails and texts count as evidence).
It seems clear she is not going to want to "co parent" and have amicable communication. So you need a defined order and minimal communication.
Incidentally if you want involvement with Child's doctor you can do that yourself now, independently. You just write to them (it helps to include evidence of Parental Responsibility - for that I got a Solicitor to write me a one off letter "To Whom it may concern" verifying that I had PR). Once you have a court order you don't need that, the court order proves you have PR.
There's a letter template to child's doctor under Legal Resources above. Basically you just deal with people separately and independently - GP, schools etc - and get your own copies of everything. Confidentially as well.
I'm currently writing a proposed parenting plan for submission to court for my FHDRA. Are there complete examples (not templates) available somewhere to help me gauge the tone etc?
There's a link in this article which leads to a page where you can download a template. It's quite a good one and you can edit it to add or remove anything you want, but gives a guideline of things to think about putting in a parenting plan.
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
Parenting plans for separating parents
Parenting plan for single and separated Dads applying to court for shared parenting.
www.dadswithkids.co.uk
Hi Guys, I have emailed my position statement, parenting plan and optometrists report to the family court. Do I need to issue a copy to my ex? Or will the court do that?
No you don't need to send a copy to your ex now. With a position statement, you're supposed to give a copy to the other side but not till the morning of the hearing usually (which is sensible! So they don't get chance to try and undermine it). If it's a video hearing you could email ex or her solicitor, the position statement, parenting plan and optometrists report either the night before the hearing (late as possible really) or very early on the morning of the hearing.
That's because these are not documents the court has asked for in an order and you're allowed to submit a position statement and parenting plan.
Make sure your parenting plan doesn't contradict anything in your position statement (where you asked for what you want in an order).
That's because these are not documents the court has asked for in an order and you're allowed to submit a position statement and parenting plan.
Make sure your parenting plan doesn't contradict anything in your position statement (where you asked for what you want in an order).
Brilliant. Thanks Ash.