Child Arrangement order after child becomes16yrs

[Srini009]

Welcome to this place. Thank you for posting the redacted document. I shivered when I read the Order: may I ask you to elaborate as to how the Order came about? Your experience with the Guardian, and your experience with representation. I'm thinking you were represented?

In general, and to your over arching question, yes, 16 yrs means such shackles of communication are shed regarding contact with your Son. May I kindly ask....would he reject/or expose you with such contact?

My best wishes, SS.

Sorry for the delay reply @StayStrong.
My experience with Guardian wasn't good, he has exclusively supported my ex, and he was known person to my ex's "women social working" person. He is the one who drafted the court order which favored my ex. Judge know the Guardian before as he was in his court few cases time before.

Also, I did have the fact finding, but as I said I should have not gone for the fact finding, as the fact finding was regarding me my ex issues, while the order was regarding Child Arrangement Order. I was trying to prove my ex wrong in fact finding process rather looking for contacts with children

Had I know then I would know that they will judge me through fact finding process, then i would kept calm and concentrate on contact with children.
True that I was not guided properly, in spite of having a solicitor ( which costed me hefty amount around £25k in total) I have such a bad contact order.

I need to accept that I was aggressive in the court, thinking saying upfront and fighting would help.

 

[Srini009]

You are in a very particular situation, solicitors will often just be looking to get a payment out of you and then to milk you dry.

I wonder if you should think about making an application to have the PSO put aside in relation to the eldest child.

"How long does a Prohibited Steps Order last?
Generally, the court sets the time frame of the Prohibited Steps Orders; however, it may vary from case to case. Normally, the court set the duration considering what will be in the best interest of the children. The duration in such cases may last for several months or may even lead to many years.

A Prohibited Steps Order usually remains intact until further notice, although it may end by the time the child becomes 18 years of age.

A Prohibited Steps Order cannot remain intact once the child reaches the age of 18 and becomes an adult in the eyes of the law."

What are Prohibited Steps Orders? How to apply and enforce them.

A Prohibited Steps Order is issued by a court in order to prevent parents from acting or making decisions about or on behalf of the children

www.google.com

Children and Families Act 2014

www.legislation.gov.uk

Can anyone pls review and confirm, as its an amend to the existing section 8 clause. Will this mean that other than residence orders( contact order) are effective once child is above 16( includes "contact order" or prohibited steps), confusing?? means it applies to any contact order then??

In subsection (6) (section 8 orders other than residence orders are only exceptionally to have effect once child is 16) for “specific issue order, contact order or prohibited steps” substitute “section 8”.

Section 8:

Children Act 1989

An Act to reform the law relating to children; to provide for local authority services for children in need and others; to amend the law with respect to children’s homes, community homes, voluntary homes and voluntary organisations; to make provision with respect to fostering, child minding and...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Ash]

I was thinking the same. Make an application for indirect contact and to have the Prohibited steps order set aside.

 

[Ash]

Sorry for the delay reply @StayStrong.
My experience with Guardian wasn't good, he has exclusively supported my ex, and he was known person to my ex's "women social working" person. He is the one who drafted the court order which favored my ex. Judge know the Guardian before as he was in his court few cases time before.

Also, I did have the fact finding, but as I said I should have not gone for the fact finding, as the fact finding was regarding me my ex issues, while the order was regarding Child Arrangement Order. I was trying to prove my ex wrong in fact finding process rather looking for contacts with children

Had I know then I would know that they will judge me through fact finding process, then i would kept calm and concentrate on contact with children.
True that I was not guided properly, in spite of having a solicitor ( which costed me hefty amount around £25k in total) I have such a bad contact order.

I need to accept that I was aggressive in the court, thinking saying upfront and fighting would help.

This is what can go wrong and it happens quite a lot. You think you are fighting your corner but the system is strange and doesn't work like that. For a Dad it is better to never accuse or criticize the ex, and focus on getting the best order after separation. Otherwise "the system" classes it as conflict between parents and you as "possibly aggressive". So getting angry or frustrated only backs up any allegations of hers that you're aggressive. It is an unfair and strange system. Courts also hate any display of emotion (bizarre when it's such an emotional process) and tend to approve of a parent who is calm, respectful, only mentions child focused things, and comes across as a sound parent.

That's the key - to prove you are a suitable parent, regardless of what the ex has or has not done. I am really sorry you had this experience. The other thing is you could have had the Guardian's report undermined as biased or flawed at final hearing by having the Guardian put on the stand.

Ultimately a case can get classed as "conflict between parents" if both are accusing each other - which they see as harmful to the kids so they then just give the kids to the Mother and usually indirect contact only to the Dad. The fact you haven't even got indirect contact (letters etc) is unusual and you must feel frustrated at spending all that on a solicitor and having this outcome.

My only comment to that is I have found the vast majority of solicitors tend to be biased towards Mums as well and as a result they don't fight your corner and can be a bit passive. There are some good ones who aren't biased, but not that many I think. For that money you could have had a very good direct acess barrister for the hearings who would have not let it get that bad I am sure.

But I also think that time makes a difference and as Resolute says, putting an application in now, for indirect contact with your kids could be a good option. Then you're legally allowed to contact your eldest son (if not your youngest). Your ex will no doubt really try and stop you having contact with him though and the danger is that your son could end up having a load of stress over it. It could still be worth doing just to a) keep on the right side of the law b) so your sons know you are still fighting to see them (even if you don't get to). It opens up the situation for your eldest to contact you if he wants to knowing the truth - which is that you DO want to see him.

 

[Srini009]

As per the order I can only make further application, only if I do DAPP course( guess most of us know). But unfortunately I couldn't do that in 2019 for few months due to unavailability and there was COVID 19, I went to India and stayed with my mother for close to 3 yrs now. Now i am back in UK, and enquired about DAPP, but they informed that Govt Ministry of Justice has officially closed DAPP programme.

Without that course I can't apply for change of arrangement, hence was looking for option of building rapport with my elder son( 16yrs expiry).

If I get confirmation that I can't legally contact my elder son, then I have to contact Cafcass asking for further referral in replacement for DAPP. If I don't get any response from them then I need to apply to court stating the same in my application 100.

Either way it will take at least 8 to 9 months get to another order( assuming I have quick 2-3 dates with court, cafcass are quick in enough to give support.

I am so stressed thinking of these bodies, as i have already gone through this process and spent lot of time with them from 2017 to 2019. Also I am alone in this country, and rest of my family is in India, I feel depressed staying alone, while I have bigger family to take care of me in India, but none here, i move to this country thinking for giving better education. I am in very difficult situation, its me have better life in India or keep trying for my children.

Which is the reason I am pushing myself to find the PSO expiry, as this solve few of my problems, as I am not sure about the new final order which i would receive after 1yr.

 

[Ash]

You could just do a course of your own bat. There is an option to self refer and pay. I wouldn't want to ask Cafcass to refer you or they'd just shut the whole thing down I think. Whereas if you apply and say - due to pandemic I was unable to do the DAPP programme, as recommended by Cafcass, but have now completed it and wish to apply for indirect contact with my children - especially my eldest who is now 16. And ask that the prohibited steps order is cancelled. I recognise that in my last application I was more focused on conflict with my former wife than on separated parenting and very much regret that I did not handle the situation better. (ie grovel).

The A Project

The charity that develops mediation strategies to promote positive relationships between family members and communities

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