Child Arrangement order after child becomes16yrs

[Srini009]

Hello All,

This has been a fantastic forum and helping all dads, big thank you to all.
Please find below my case details :
2 Sons( Elder 16yrs, younger 11yrs). Child Arrangement Order: Final Order issued on 1st August 2019.

My query: Can I contact 16yrs legally, as the child arrangement order is not applicable to 16yrs children

Order was made when the child my elder son was 13yrs, now he is 16yrs. So, does the "child order " still applies to my elder son(16yrs).

Can mother apply for breach of order?? I have attached the order for reference. I want to hear from people who have such experiences or had such situations, my ex wife is very clever and will not leave a chance to throw me to prison, so bit I want to careful before I take any steps to contact.

I have read through the forums, seems technically child order expires after child attains 16yrs "Contact part" though residence (live in) is valid till he is 18yrs,
I want help and advice from experts:

Source : childlawadvice.org.uk

How long is a Child Arrangements Order in force for?
The contact arrangements set out in a Child Arrangements Order remain legally binding until the child reaches the age of 16 unless the order specifically states otherwise. This is in accordance with section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989. After this point it will be up to the child to decide how much contact they would like to have with the parent they do not live with.

The ‘live with’ element of a Child Arrangements Order remains legally binding until the child reaches the age of 18, however the Court are very reluctant to enforce such orders beyond the age of 16 unless there are exceptional circumstances.
"As per section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989."
(10)A section 8 order F12... shall, if it would otherwise still be in force, cease to have effect when the child reaches the age of sixteen, unless it is to have effect beyond that age by virtue of section 9(6)F13. . .

Thanks in advance

 

[Ash]

Hi I've deleted the CAO from your post as you're not supposed to show it to anyone without the court's permission - so best not to post it on a public forum. You could message me privately with it but I've already read it now.

The Mother has a lives with order so the order ceases when a child is 16. At 16 a child can choose for themselves if they want to contact or live with anyone. Having said that, your eldest still lives with his Mother, who probably won't allow it - and he has to look out for himself. I don't see why you shouldn't try to make contact with the 16 year old, but you might run the risk of her saying you've breached the prohibited steps order that says you mustn't contact the children. Because the youngest is not 16 (even if you're only contacting the eldest). I don't think she could send you to prison over it but she may well call the Police or something, if you tried to make contact with the 16 year old, while he's in his Mother's house (she could claim the 11 year old may come across something).

Do you know if he's still at school as well? It's very tricky. Technically a 16 year old can choose for themselves. But he lives with his Mother. How long is it since you've seen him?

You could try reaching out somehow - maybe send a message via a family member? And just let him know you are there if he ever wants to get in contact. And then leave it up to him. Maybe a note as he leaves school or something?

Yes you could try contacting him by social media but ex may well monitor his phone via a parental app and see. And try and accuse you of harrassment or something. But you could maybe find him on social media. He could also find you on social media so make sure you have a wide social media presence.

 

[StayStrong]

Welcome to this place. Thank you for posting the redacted document. I shivered when I read the Order: may I ask you to elaborate as to how the Order came about? Your experience with the Guardian, and your experience with representation. I'm thinking you were represented?

In general, and to your over arching question, yes, 16 yrs means such shackles of communication are shed regarding contact with your Son. May I kindly ask....would he reject/or expose you with such contact?

My best wishes, SS.

 

[Srini009]

Hi I've deleted the CAO from your post as you're not supposed to show it to anyone without the court's permission - so best not to post it on a public forum. You could message me privately with it but I've already read it now.

The Mother has a lives with order so the order ceases when a child is 16. At 16 a child can choose for themselves if they want to contact or live with anyone. Having said that, your eldest still lives with his Mother, who probably won't allow it - and he has to look out for himself. I don't see why you shouldn't try to make contact with the 16 year old, but you might run the risk of her saying you've breached the prohibited steps order that says you mustn't contact the children. Because the youngest is not 16 (even if you're only contacting the eldest). I don't think she could send you to prison over it but she may well call the Police or something, if you tried to make contact with the 16 year old, while he's in his Mother's house (she could claim the 11 year old may come across something).

Do you know if he's still at school as well? It's very tricky. Technically a 16 year old can choose for themselves. But he lives with his Mother. How long is it since you've seen him?

You could try reaching out somehow - maybe send a message via a family member? And just let him know you are there if he ever wants to get in contact. And then leave it up to him. Maybe a note as he leaves school or something?

Yes you could try contacting him by social media but ex may well monitor his phone via a parental app and see. And try and accuse you of harrassment or something. But you could maybe find him on social media. He could also find you on social media so make sure you have a wide social media presence.

Thank you Ash for a precise and helpful reply and thanks for deleting the CAO post as I was not aware of the rules.
I now get the risks involved in contacting the elder one as he stays with the younger (11yrs), so yes mother can use it against me with support of my elder son, who I am not sure much he wants to meet or contact me.

I know it might not be direct breach but if calls the police and i am taken for another enquiry from police, then it will be recorded as attempt to breach even though its proved wrong later.

Its difficult situation as mother ensured that children are not on social media, and i have no means to contact them. Only option I have is to send a very small note to elder one to contact grandmother( my mother) directly to hand on the way to home from school and also provide my number ( with a clear message its only for elder son and not for younger one).

I have to taken some amount of calculated risk, else I have to wait for 5 more yrs till the younger one is 16yrs then my elder one is 21yrs, its already 5yrs now, another 5yrs would mean they will never come to me, to be frank i don't how they look now, only pic i have is 1yr back school pic(half size)

Last time I saw them was in 2017 Nov before i left home, its 5yrs now and I have not seen them again though I am in London. I am scared to go near to school or see them far as she might report as I was stalking them. I am absolutely in disastrous situation.

 

[Ash]

I am really sorry to hear this. What went wrong with your court application for you to have no contact at all? I know there are a lot of things can go wrong. Your eldest will remember you well - he will have been about 11 last time you saw him? Your ex is clearly avoiding them using social media to prevent you seeing them or contacting them. The other thing is, you don't know what he's been told, so with these situations, a gradual approach is probably best or it could be a big shock to him. I've heard stories where a Mother has told the kids the Father was dead.

There are all kinds of places set up for people to contact long lost relatives or adopted children looking for birth parents, that say - it needs to be handled carefully to be let the other person have time to adjust and decide if they want contact.

It's very tricky. Although the court order doesn't apply for a 16 year old any more (in terms of him being able to choose for himself), the residency order lasts until he is 18 - so until he is 18 your ex is responsible for him. Which gives him less freedom. In a couple of years, when he's 18, he'll be a legal adult and that is less of an issue - except most 18 year olds are still living at home as they can't afford their own place - unless they go away to university.

Maybe if you give us more info about the background as to how this happened, then we could suggest an approach. I know, for example, a fact find going wrong can lead to no contact or indirect contact only. It seems you don't even have indirect contact (letters etc).

 

[Resolute]

Wouldn't it make sense for your mother to reach out to him. If a conversation could happen with his grandmother, that would let her gauge things. She would have to be very guarded and allow any mention of you come from him.

 

[Ash]

Agree - that's a good idea. Perhaps your Mother could hand him a note as he leaves school and see if he gets in touch with her. It is hard to underestimate though, the power a sole resident parent has over a child. Most children do what they're told by a parent - they're dependent on them and it's an inbuilt instinct in kids, not to cross the provider. 16 is not quite a kid any more but ....They don't feel they have any power - they are still dependents. Having said that, 16 year olds can be pushing for a bit of independence. They will also be starting GCSE year and getting bogged down with school work over the next two years.

Some advice I heard that Nick Woodall (PA) used to give to Dads who have lost contact with kids was - they can be thinking about you and it's common for them to cyberstalk an absent parent. Which is why I said - make sure you have a social media presence - on Facebook or Twitter particularly, or Instagram. Twitter - you may get a message. He could sign up anonymously and follow you etc. I've seen that happen. Instagram - he would see photos of you. Try not to make them look like you're having an amazing life without him. Stick to photos that express you - like a hobby. So if you're hobby is fixing cars, have photos of cars you've fixed etc. Or if it's sport, have sport related photos. That kind of thing - so he can get to see who you are.

You could maybe do something in the community? If you live nearby - like being active in a voluntary organisation for example - you'd be listed on their web page too or may get some media about you in local papers (or about the group with you on a photo eg). Anything that could help him easily find you and maybe think and want to get in contact. These things let him see you as you, not as what his Mother has told him etc.

Of course one thing would be to become famous! That might be a hard one! Become famous and all over the media

 

[Ash]

Also, as Stay Strong quite rightly pointed out - the document you uploaded was redacted - but still best to be on the safe side.

 

[Srini009]

I am really sorry to hear this. What went wrong with your court application for you to have no contact at all? I know there are a lot of things can go wrong. Your eldest will remember you well - he will have been about 11 last time you saw him? Your ex is clearly avoiding them using social media to prevent you seeing them or contacting them. The other thing is, you don't know what he's been told, so with these situations, a gradual approach is probably best or it could be a big shock to him. I've heard stories where a Mother has told the kids the Father was dead.

There are all kinds of places set up for people to contact long lost relatives or adopted children looking for birth parents, that say - it needs to be handled carefully to be let the other person have time to adjust and decide if they want contact.

It's very tricky. Although the court order doesn't apply for a 16 year old any more (in terms of him being able to choose for himself), the residency order lasts until he is 18 - so until he is 18 your ex is responsible for him. Which gives him less freedom. In a couple of years, when he's 18, he'll be a legal adult and that is less of an issue - except most 18 year olds are still living at home as they can't afford their own place - unless they go away to university.

Maybe if you give us more info about the background as to how this happened, then we could suggest an approach. I know, for example, a fact find going wrong can lead to no contact or indirect contact only. It seems you don't even have indirect contact (letters etc).

Thanks Ash for you efforts in replying, your message are giving some sought of hope and approach I could be used to rebuild my contact with my children, yes too slow process.


Background sorry I might hurt a few as I am talking about religion conversion, request you to see from a neutral point of view. Pls excuse me again.

The issue was related to religion conversion, my ex got converted to Christianity from Hinduism which I came to know after 4yrs of conversion. She then forced me to convert to Christianity which I did not agree with. She was clearly hating me for my religion and didn't stay with me and wanted to move out single, she was a working woman. But with some advice from friends and colleagues she kept children as she will have financial support and other support from Govt , social services, women's rights.

As a startup process, she built a GP record for 12 months that she was going through depression as she was domestically abused, and she started telling a few friends and to kid's school teachers that I am an abusive husband. Then she started to instigate and have fights with me at home before children to show me bad, it was very well planned as we had a similar case in our apartment.

She then reported to the social service that she was abused and removed me from the house suddenly. She used evidence from the GP as a support, evidence from the school teacher, and the teacher spoke to the kids, they told that my parents fight with each other. But we love our father.

Second biggest mistake: I did not go for the Section 7 report immediately after I was removed from home. As I was thinking, the issue is related to molestation order and btw me and my ex but not children.

Once the molestation order was in place, I had no way to contact children, as the mobile phones of my elder child with her and she used to send hate messages to me, and she applied for a Child arrangement order saying that children now don't want to talk to father. Its been 4+ yrs that she didn't allow me to talk to children saying they are scared of their father returning home.

Court allowed supervised contact after 1yr, which was unsuccessful as kids were fully influenced by their mother by then. In the interview with Cafcass, the children gave very bad reviews and all lies about me( like once I plan to put fire locking kids in a room, I hit them even for small reasons, and never allow them to smile). This all was told by children to the cafcass interviewer, with such a report it was impossible for me to get any level of contact. Above she convinced the court that I was abusing her for religious conversion, while it was reversed that she forced me to convert, I had few people who contacted me for conversion. It is least to say I have suffered a lot from 2014 till 2019( final CAO report), after which I went to India for a much needed break.

Children at that time were fully influenced by their mother and hope it did not change much as of now. So, I need to really be careful when I approach my elderson, as he might still hate me based on what he was told about me.

"My ex got converted to Christianity from Hinduism which I came to know after 4yrs of conversion" - We were immigrants from India, so she was dependent and was waiting for UK Citizenship before letting me know about her conversion.
She wanted keep the children as she will child benefit , child maintenance along with a huge financial settlement.

Will continue.. later I am exhausted now. its very emotional.

 

[Srini009]

Wouldn't it make sense for your mother to reach out to him. If a conversation could happen with his grandmother, that would let her gauge things. She would have to be very guarded and allow any mention of you come from him.

Thank you Resolute for you advice, really appreciate that.

My mother( kids grandmother ) is in India, I am not sure how I could get that done. My ex gave a very bad report on me at schools, so they are not very supportive to me. My elder son is in 6th Form this year, till now I don't know which subjects he chose at 6th form, when I have requested school to provide details about his education, they said its up to children to share the details and they can't share any details.

And if I need to pass the letter to children in the name of my mother, I am not sure where do I hand over letter , on the way to home??? as school will not allow me to meet him.

Can I check if there are any mediation Centre, I could reach to build a rapport with my son, who will get in touch with my son without my ex knowing??? If she gets to know then she ensure he doesn't attend, or else she will bring him along and report at mediation centre that she is not willing to have any contact. Then it will be very difficult to take it further.

 

[Resolute]

I did not know my biological father throughout my childhood. You have to build a way of understanding the world in the absence of that very important figure. It is a world made of glass and must be handled very carefully. The one time my father did reach out to me was a little before Christmas, when I was 10 or 11. He knocked on doors near our house to find a neighbour who was comfortable speaking to my mum. The neighbour knocked on our door and invited my mum next door for a chat. My mum came and spoke to me, she said he was parked in a car around the corner. He had some gifts for me and would like to see me.

I said this was too out of the blue and that we have our family Christmas to focus on, I didn't want to pull such a big issue into things. I told her I would accept the gifts though .

He did not try again for another decade or so, I met him, but it was too late really. If he had continued to show an interest and given me time to do things on my terms, I would have seen him within a few months of his attempt.

The way I felt that Christmas makes me think handing him a note might be too dramatic, it could force a knee jerk reaction. It will almost certainly make his stomach do somersaults. It could make him cry, scream, or run away. There must be another way of getting a message through, without face to face contact or at least through a third party.

 

[Srini009]

I did not know my biological father throughout my childhood. You have to build a way of understanding the world in the absence of that very important figure. It is a world made of glass and must be handled very carefully. The one time my father did reach out to me was a little before Christmas, when I was 10 or 11. He knocked on doors near our house to find a neighbour who was comfortable speaking to my mum. The neighbour knocked on our door and invited my mum next door for a chat. My mum came and spoke to me, she said he was parked in a car around the corner. He had some gifts for me and would like to see me.

I said this was too out of the blue and that we have our family Christmas to focus on, I didn't want to pull such a big issue into things. I told her I would accept the gifts though .

He did not try again for another decade or so, I met him, but it was too late really. If he had continued to show an interest and given me time to do things on my terms, I would have seen him within a few months of his attempt.

The way I felt that Christmas makes me think handing him a note might be too dramatic, it could force a knee jerk reaction. It will almost certainly make his stomach do somersaults. It could make him cry, scream, or run away. There must be another way of getting a message through, without face to face contact or at least through a third party.

Really sorry for what you could gone through, I did lose my father at my prime time but not in childhood. Your reply means a lot to me now, it has few points i could learn from.

1. Kids are very sensitive and live in their own world, they don't like fights and look for happiness. Most of them try to find happiness from what is accessible( mostly through friends ) and move on with what they have.
They are scared of building relationships specially with who left them sad, thinking they will be again unhappy if that ( father/mother) person is back in their life, they develop hatred and fear against that person.
What needs to be done : He needs to be assured that he will be safe and mostly importantly past will not be repeated and will be happy. And he is happy in current situation.

2. If they not willing to meet you in first few attempts, Don't lose hope, keep trying in passively and slowly. Don't rush to them, or be in hurry, just start hinting them that you are their for them.

3 Kids need both parents, its their right, if one parent is try to take away the right. Being a second parent try to give him back his rights.

How?????

Its going to be really tough, you need to this carefully, legally and patiently. I learned this hard way. Can i try this way.

1. Don't write anything directly to him for now.
2. Sponsor school trips
3. Send gifts to school, he may reject one. Give another 2 weeks and buy some gadgets or sports equipment's.
4. If we see positive and he is happy then try sharing your contact details.

Please provide you feed back on my understanding and approach, please share any other ideas I could use to build relationship.

Thanks much.

 

[Srini009]

@Ash @Resolute @StayStrong

Could you please help me to understand. Does prohibition steps order ( for contact) also expires at the age of 16yrs, when there is NO specific age criteria mentioned. How are they different from not prohibition steps. Thanks in advance

 

[Ash]

Thanks Ash for you efforts in replying, your message are giving some sought of hope and approach I could be used to rebuild my contact with my children, yes too slow process.


Background sorry I might hurt a few as I am talking about religion conversion, request you to see from a neutral point of view. Pls excuse me again.

The issue was related to religion conversion, my ex got converted to Christianity from Hinduism which I came to know after 4yrs of conversion. She then forced me to convert to Christianity which I did not agree with. She was clearly hating me for my religion and didn't stay with me and wanted to move out single, she was a working woman. But with some advice from friends and colleagues she kept children as she will have financial support and other support from Govt , social services, women's rights.

As a startup process, she built a GP record for 12 months that she was going through depression as she was domestically abused, and she started telling a few friends and to kid's school teachers that I am an abusive husband. Then she started to instigate and have fights with me at home before children to show me bad, it was very well planned as we had a similar case in our apartment.

She then reported to the social service that she was abused and removed me from the house suddenly. She used evidence from the GP as a support, evidence from the school teacher, and the teacher spoke to the kids, they told that my parents fight with each other. But we love our father.

Second biggest mistake: I did not go for the Section 7 report immediately after I was removed from home. As I was thinking, the issue is related to molestation order and btw me and my ex but not children.

Once the molestation order was in place, I had no way to contact children, as the mobile phones of my elder child with her and she used to send hate messages to me, and she applied for a Child arrangement order saying that children now don't want to talk to father. Its been 4+ yrs that she didn't allow me to talk to children saying they are scared of their father returning home.

Court allowed supervised contact after 1yr, which was unsuccessful as kids were fully influenced by their mother by then. In the interview with Cafcass, the children gave very bad reviews and all lies about me( like once I plan to put fire locking kids in a room, I hit them even for small reasons, and never allow them to smile). This all was told by children to the cafcass interviewer, with such a report it was impossible for me to get any level of contact. Above she convinced the court that I was abusing her for religious conversion, while it was reversed that she forced me to convert, I had few people who contacted me for conversion. It is least to say I have suffered a lot from 2014 till 2019( final CAO report), after which I went to India for a much needed break.

Children at that time were fully influenced by their mother and hope it did not change much as of now. So, I need to really be careful when I approach my elderson, as he might still hate me based on what he was told about me.

"My ex got converted to Christianity from Hinduism which I came to know after 4yrs of conversion" - We were immigrants from India, so she was dependent and was waiting for UK Citizenship before letting me know about her conversion.
She wanted keep the children as she will child benefit , child maintenance along with a huge financial settlement.

Will continue.. later I am exhausted now. its very emotional.

I am sorry I can imagine it was emotional reliving some of that. What you describe there, by the time of Cafcass interviews is coaching or parental alienation of the kids by the Mother. Cafcass should have seen through that but sometimes they don't.

Also what you describe is a very common situation. An ex gets a non molestation order (which is very easy to get) and then its an uphill struggle.

We also fall foul of the system, without assistance - not knowing how to manage it or the right things to do and say at the right times.

I am very sorry this happened for you. Religion brings another complex matter into it.

I think from what you've said your ex will have said plenty of negative stuff about you to the kids. The eldest one will have memories of you being a family before the separation. Those memories may be locked away for his own self protection and because he's been taught to be a certain way by his Mum. But inside there will be something. Children struggle with loyalty. They have an inbuilt loyalty to both parents equally - as your kids said they loved you. And that will still be in there. But as they've been taken away from you and taught to only have loyalty to their Mum, your son will almost certainly feel conflicted.

Apologies - yes A levels not GCSE's. If the school aren't giving you any information, write to the local education authority, send evidence of having parental responsibility and ask for information to be sent to you about your son's educational progress. The local authority should tell the school to do it. The school will do what your ex tells them to do but the local authority can override that. You are simply asking for reports on his educational progress in the same way the Mother receives these.

At the moment my only suggestion is to perhaps have some counselling to work through what might be the best thing to do right now. Counselling can be very good to help you reach decisions and conclusions and find solutions. They have a way of suggesting things that helps you think of something you hadn't thought of before.

No your Mother can't go to the school if she's in India. You must miss them very much and it's a very hard thing to live with. And right now you're probably feeling worse even just thinking about the possibility of maybe seeing him.

But it really is important to live your life as well so if and when you do see them (whether it's sooner or later) they can see you are a sound human being who has made something of his life and feel proud of you. You show them rather than tell them because telling them things just makes them feel conflicted when their Mother is telling them different things.

I am guessing your ex had a solicitor for court because of her allegations (legal aid) and you weren't represented? That is how things go wrong. It's a vicious adversarial system and your ex's solicitor would just be out to "win" the case for her client and not be child focused in the slightest.

Can I ask if you had a fact finding hearing and if they found against you? It helps try and think if it's worth applying to court again (re your younger son). I seem to remember there was nothing in there preventing that. If you had an order to see your younger son it could be easier to see the older one. However, the chances are she would coach them again to say they don't want to see you.

To answer your question as to whether the prohibited steps order still stands or not - I am not entirely sure. If you had an order to see the kids, that would only last until they were 16. But if there is an order against you and the Mother has residency, it is possible it could last until they are 18. You would need legal advice on that. You can get a free half hour from a solicitor (and they will let it go on for more than half an hour sometimes). You can do that with two or three different solicitors and see which is most on the ball and most helpful,

I would suggest that next. I'm not saying give up but you need clear legal advice before doing anything else.

 

[Resolute]

Really sorry for what you could gone through, I did lose my father at my prime time but not in childhood. Your reply means a lot to me now, it has few points i could learn from.

1. Kids are very sensitive and live in their own world, they don't like fights and look for happiness. Most of them try to find happiness from what is accessible( mostly through friends ) and move on with what they have.
They are scared of building relationships specially with who left them sad, thinking they will be again unhappy if that ( father/mother) person is back in their life, they develop hatred and fear against that person.
What needs to be done : He needs to be assured that he will be safe and mostly importantly past will not be repeated and will be happy. And he is happy in current situation.

2. If they not willing to meet you in first few attempts, Don't lose hope, keep trying in passively and slowly. Don't rush to them, or be in hurry, just start hinting them that you are their for them.

3 Kids need both parents, its their right, if one parent is try to take away the right. Being a second parent try to give him back his rights.

How?????

Its going to be really tough, you need to this carefully, legally and patiently. I learned this hard way. Can i try this way.

1. Don't write anything directly to him for now.
2. Sponsor school trips
3. Send gifts to school, he may reject one. Give another 2 weeks and buy some gadgets or sports equipment's.
4. If we see positive and he is happy then try sharing your contact details.

Please provide you feed back on my understanding and approach, please share any other ideas I could use to build relationship.

Thanks much.

Such a difficult situation.

Ideally, the message would come from a person who knows you and that he trusts. It sounds like you don't have anybody in that situation.

Finding a way of letting him know you are there for him seems like a nice idea. He may not know you have been bound by a court order for years and may have been told you are not interested.

Writing might not be such a bad idea. If he is in the 6th Form, wouldn't he have a school email address? It would only need to be short and sweet. Just hearing you are there and have been thinking of him all this time might be an enormous amount to take in for him.

In My Opinion, you should work out an approach you think will allow him to feel in control, he has a right to choose and to take the time he needs to think things through.

If he returns or refuses to accept a gift, going too far on repeats, could be a little risky.

I think I would want to find a way of working out more about what is going on for him and what his interests are.

Definitely work out what the legal situation is before taking any major steps.

Maybe turning up at the school gate and handing him a note would work, I was not saying it is not an option. Just highlighting some of the possible outcomes.

 

[Ash]

Such a difficult situation.

Ideally, the message would come from a person who knows you and that he trusts. It sounds like you don't have anybody in that situation.

Finding a way of letting him know you are there for him seems like a nice idea. He may not know you have been bound by a court order for years and may have been told you are not interested.

Writing might not be such a bad idea. If he is in the 6th Form, wouldn't he have a school email address? It would only need to be short and sweet. Just hearing you are there and have been thinking of him all this time might be an enormous amount to take in for him.

In My Opinion, you should work out an approach you think will allow him to feel in control, he has a right to choose and to take the time he needs to think things through.

If he returns or refuses to accept a gift, going too far on repeats, could be a little risky.

I think I would want to find a way of working out more about what is going on for him and what his interests are.

Definitely work out what the legal situation is before taking any major steps.

Maybe turning up at the school gate and handing him a note would work, I was not saying it is not an option. Just highlighting some of the possible outcomes.

Agree but I think he needs to establish whether or not he would be in breach of the prohibited steps order first by getting some legal advice.

 

[Resolute]

Agree but I think he needs to establish whether or not he would be in breach of the prohibited steps order first by getting some legal advice.

Yes, agree completely, that is what I meant here:

"Definitely work out what the legal situation is before taking any major steps."

 

[Srini009]

Agree but I think he needs to establish whether or not he would be in breach of the prohibited steps order first by getting some legal advice.

Thank you for heads up on prohibitions steps. I have been check with few solicitors, but till now I could not get confirmation. As its rare case, in prohibition steps order section of Children act 1989 there is no mention of age factor, while it was mentioned that residence is valid till 18yrs and contact is legally valid till 16yrs without specify about prohibition order.

None of solicitors whom I have contact could confirm prohibition order steps expiry date, so I am unable you their advice as proof if something goes wrong in future. While court said they can provide advice and you need to contact solicitor.

 

[Srini009]

Such a difficult situation.

Ideally, the message would come from a person who knows you and that he trusts. It sounds like you don't have anybody in that situation.

Finding a way of letting him know you are there for him seems like a nice idea. He may not know you have been bound by a court order for years and may have been told you are not interested.

Writing might not be such a bad idea. If he is in the 6th Form, wouldn't he have a school email address? It would only need to be short and sweet. Just hearing you are there and have been thinking of him all this time might be an enormous amount to take in for him.

In My Opinion, you should work out an approach you think will allow him to feel in control, he has a right to choose and to take the time he needs to think things through.

If he returns or refuses to accept a gift, going too far on repeats, could be a little risky.

I think I would want to find a way of working out more about what is going on for him and what his interests are.

Definitely work out what the legal situation is before taking any major steps.

Maybe turning up at the school gate and handing him a note would work, I was not saying it is not an option. Just highlighting some of the possible outcomes.

Sure, once the get the confirmation that I can contact him legally, I will look for an approach to let him know that I am available if he wants to talk to me. Apart from his interest in Foot Ball, I don't much details on what's up with him in recent times. But legality check is the first thing I would like to work on, if you know someone who could legal advice( a solicitor) , I am happy to take their help and pay for advice.

 

[Resolute]

Thank you for heads up on prohibitions steps. I have been check with few solicitors, but till now I could not get confirmation. As its rare case, in prohibition steps order section of Children act 1989 there is no mention of age factor, while it was mentioned that residence is valid till 18yrs and contact is legally valid till 16yrs without specify about prohibition order.

None of solicitors whom I have contact could confirm prohibition order steps expiry date, so I am unable you their advice as proof if something goes wrong in future. While court said they can provide advice and you need to contact solicitor.

You are in a very particular situation, solicitors will often just be looking to get a payment out of you and then to milk you dry.

I wonder if you should think about making an application to have the PSO put aside in relation to the eldest child.

"How long does a Prohibited Steps Order last?
Generally, the court sets the time frame of the Prohibited Steps Orders; however, it may vary from case to case. Normally, the court set the duration considering what will be in the best interest of the children. The duration in such cases may last for several months or may even lead to many years.

A Prohibited Steps Order usually remains intact until further notice, although it may end by the time the child becomes 18 years of age.

A Prohibited Steps Order cannot remain intact once the child reaches the age of 18 and becomes an adult in the eyes of the law."

What are Prohibited Steps Orders? How to apply and enforce them.

A Prohibited Steps Order is issued by a court in order to prevent parents from acting or making decisions about or on behalf of the children

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