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Cafcass advice!

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winger

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I really need to advice, would love your thoughts on this..

So before I applied to the court, my ex and I had mediation, it didn't go well, she was crying through most of it and could barely talk.

The last 2 years she hadn't been good, I wonder if she had a breakdown, PND, PTSD, a lot of people have said the same.

After the mediation I got really concerned for my daughters welfare. They were also living with her parents, and her brother was there, who had mental health issues, he's 31, and poses quite a risk. He's given my daughter large kitchen before, while she's been having lunch. This has happened a few times, plus other stuff.

So I ended up ringing child services and talked at length about my concern. They did an investigation, came back saying everything was ok.

Fast forward a month, and I've done the C100 for a child arrangements order, I did it as urgent because of the concerns, so they were on there too.

Cafcass did safeguarding call. I was previously told by a charity who help men, it's better to not bring up allegations, so I didn't.

But, a new solicitor I talked to has said if I have concerns I should bring them up, and I should contact Cafcass to tell them I have these concerns, and get them to hopefully add those onto the report.

Is this a good idea? My concerns are about the welfare of my daughter, I'm not mud slinging. I'd be positing out my concerns about the brother posing a risk to my daughter. I could keep it at that, not mention the ex.

What do people think? I need to do this asap if I'm doing it.

Thanks for any advice.
 
Your solicitor is right. Non-specific allegations are not usually included early on in child arrangement applications as they are counter-productive but in your case, you have had already raised a specific concern with social services. As this was the case, when you completed the child arrangements forms (C100) you should have also completed a supplementary form C1A. You were not to know this at the time but your solicitor is correct.

How old is your daugther and what is the general allegation against her brother? I think spellcheck had a moment whilst you were typing.

And yes, PND, PTSD or underlying mental health problems is a feature of lots of these cases. But there are also elements in some of Borderline Personality Disorder and narcissistic behaviours.
 
Yes it is, it missed off a word.
The brother has given my daughter large kitchen knives before. He has issues himself and, long story short, controls the whole household, by using his mental health as a way to control, and get away with all manner of behaviour.

So I originally contacted child services to notify them, and what he has done in the past, his troubles and narcissistic behaviour, controlling behaviour. And also talked about my ex, and how she has been over the years, and more recently (during mediation).

They went to 'investigate' and found nothing wrong. I wasn't happy but didn't know what to do, I should have made more if a fuss I think.

Fast forward to the Cafcass safeguarding call and I didn't mention anything again as recommended by a guy who is helping me. But I feel I should have, and this solicitor says I should and still can.

On the C100 I may have done a C1A, I forget, so much has happened since.

So should I email Cafcass to let them know my concerns? I don't want it to look like I'm making stuff up, or wanting to criticise the ex. I think I would be honest and say I was recommended not to say anything, but really feel I should?
 
winger said:
Yes it is, it missed off a word.
The brother has given my daughter large kitchen knives before. He has issues himself and, long story short, controls the whole household, by using his mental health as a way to control, and get away with all manner of behaviour.

So I originally contacted child services to notify them, and what he has done in the past, his troubles and narcissistic behaviour, controlling behaviour. And also talked about my ex, and how she has been over the years, and more recently (during mediation).

They went to 'investigate' and found nothing wrong. I wasn't happy but didn't know what to do, I should have made more if a fuss I think.

Fast forward to the Cafcass safeguarding call and I didn't mention anything again as recommended by a guy who is helping me. But I feel I should have, and this solicitor says I should and still can.

On the C100 I may have done a C1A, I forget, so much has happened since.

So should I email Cafcass to let them know my concerns? I don't want it to look like I'm making stuff up, or wanting to criticise the ex. I think I would be honest and say I was recommended not to say anything, but really feel I should?
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Yes, I think you should do as the solicitor suggests. There are four adults in the house. One has potential mental health issues and the other has diagnosed mental health issues. Neither - in themselves - mean that the children will be harmed but we don't know what the diagnoses are, whether your daughter is left solely in the care of the brother/sister etc etc. There may be no direct risk but there could be a lapse. CAFCASS should me made aware as that is a clear safeguarding issue.
 
Chi22 said:
Yes, I think you should do as the solicitor suggests. There are four adults in the house. One has potential mental health issues and the other has diagnosed mental health issues. Neither - in themselves - mean that the children will be harmed but we don't know what the diagnoses are, whether your daughter is left solely in the care of the brother/sister etc etc. There may be no direct risk but there could be a lapse. CAFCASS should me made aware as that is a clear safeguarding issue.
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Ok, thank you.
Is there a best way to word it? So they don't think I'm just trying to criticise or stir trouble. But genuinely concerned.
 
I think you should dial it down - though of course I'm not suggesting you have dialled it up.

You could write, "I have a limited number of concerns regarding the welfare of my daughter. These are

- List them very briefly in this heading list taking no more than a line at a time and list no more than 4 (they'll be in the report)
- Has the social services report been copied to the court? It will need to be.

..continuing, "Whilst X Children's Services have undertaken an investigation, I remain concerned for the welfare of my
daughter. It is not my wish to denigrate Mother - and I omitted this Children's services investigation from my discussions with
CAFCASS for that - and have now asked that CAFCASS amend their report to outline these concerns for the sake of completeness
and to respectfully request that the court considers the report of X Children's Services and determines whether further safeguarding enquiries
should be undertaken."
 
Thanks Chi, I have been in contact with my GP as well, to get a letter explaining how this has all affected me (false allegations) I fully explained the family dynamics, my ex's brother, etc. And they have put my daughter on a multi agency care, so she has a few people who are keeping watch and looking out for her. Will this be enough to tell the court I have concerns?
Will this be picked up? I just don't want to delay things for my daughter by putting forward my concerns again to Cafcass. I don't know what the right thing to do is. Will doing this strengthen my case?
It's all on record because I talked to child services previously, so will the court see this?
 
I don't think it strengthens your case but importantly, it doesn't weaken it either.

What you have done to protect your daughter is enough for now. And yes, one you let them know, the court will be aware of it. Your contact with social services should have been formally recorded in CAFCASS's Safeguarding Letter as that is part of normal background checks.

You have CAFCASS's report, did they file a Safeguarding Letter with the court and copy it to you? Sometimes they file with the court only, letting the parents know they have done so.
 
Chi22 said:
I think you should dial it down - though of course I'm not suggesting you have dialled it up.

You could write, "I have a limited number of concerns regarding the welfare of my daughter. These are

- List them very briefly in this heading list taking no more than a line at a time and list no more than 4 (they'll be in the report)
- Has the social services report been copied to the court? It will need to be.

..continuing, "Whilst X Children's Services have undertaken an investigation, I remain concerned for the welfare of my
daughter. It is not my wish to denigrate Mother - and I omitted this Children's services investigation from my discussions with
CAFCASS for that - and have now asked that CAFCASS amend their report to outline these concerns for the sake of completeness
and to respectfully request that the court considers the report of X Children's Services and determines whether further safeguarding enquiries
should be undertaken."
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Excellent advice and wording from Chi.

A small point to add. When you raise this with Cafcass, try to find a way of saying that the report as it stands is erroneous/inaccurate. They are willing to correct matters of fact, but not matters of opinion. Basically, try to find a way of saying that part of their report is factually incorrect without the further information you want them to include. That with your additional information, the error would be corrected.
 
Thanks for your help guys, I'm torn, I've had this advice from the guy helping me over at Both Parents Matter

"I understand why the solicitor has given you this advise when you raised your concerns with them. However, I want you to focus on the outcome that you might be able to achieve in the Court process.

Your ex partner has possession of your child. She is preventing you from seeing XXXXX. The Court wants to know what you want them to do BUT the possibility that they will remove your daughter from her Mother (which is realistically the only way that she could be protected from the uncle) is in my view nil.

Children Services have already investigated and they are content that there is no problem. That doesnt mean that there IS no problem - just that Children Services would not support your view that XXXXX should be protected from this risk. Courts turn to the opinion of Children Services when they make Orders so again in my view there is no possibility of the Court deciding that you are right and the Mother and the professionals are wrong.

You have raised your concerns. They have been noted. It is even noted in the Cafcass report that you have been reassured by the investigation by Children Services - so you have placed the responsibility for safety where it should be - on Children Services.

If you now change your mind about this the Court is likely to see YOU as the problem. The most significant way that you can protect XXXXX is for her to be in your care for the maximum possible amount of time. This is why I've said what I have to you.

I absolutely understand that every fibre of your being is crying out that there is danger. The problem is that by raising those concerns now you place your daughter in greater danger by reducing the chance that you will have your in your care on a regular basis.

You also have to take account of the appalling unfairness that her allegations of Coercive & Controlling Behaviour have cast a shadow over your case. I appreciate that the Police have determined NO Further Action but she will continue to make these claims against you and so making further claims against the Mother & her family will play directly into their narrative that you are controlling. It is shameful and a disgrace that it should be so BUT that is the reality.

I am being pragmatic. That is easy for me when it's not my daughter who is at risk. However, that doesn't change the reality of what I'm saying to you.

I've copied this to my colleague - who is filling in for the Buddy Co-ordinator role at present. I think you need to be brought into the emotional support services of the charity so that you have someone who understands what you're going through and can help you come to terms with the reality of your situation. I'm just about to go on leave for 2 weeks but we will pick up when I'm back."

So I think I'll leave it. It's been recorded, my concerns have been made aware. I don't want to play into their 'narrative' as he says.

Appreciate both your help 🙏🏼 this is such a confusing time.
 
I'd be inclined to leave it too. Sometimes doing nothing is better, at the moment. Solicitors can give conflicting advice. I've been in a similar situation. I can understand the anxiety when you're not even getting to see your child. Ultimately SS would see it as the Mother's responsibility to ensure the child's safety. And yes they just go round, don't see anything and close the case. The problem with that system is they only do anything if there is immediate risk of harm - and if they don't see anything they decide there isn't.

It is a dilemma though because morally you should raise the issue and risk and for your own integrity. But yes it could skew the court process more if you're seen to be making allegations. This is a problem with the court process.

However Chi's suggestion of setting something out like that, after the Cafcass report is also good. But - Cafcass also sometimes turn round and say - so if you're really concerned, why didn't you report to social services? Oh you did - and they closed the case - then Cafcass would not be interested any more and you're just seen to have made allegations and they will think it is point scoring.

What you could do though, is what Chi suggested in writing, but send it to social services, not Cafcass. An ex social worker once said to me - if you keep putting things in writing to social services, then after five times, they have to investigate.
 
Just to add to that - it would probably be better to wait until after you have a court order before pursuing the social services route again.
 
Ash said:
I'd be inclined to leave it too. Sometimes doing nothing is better, at the moment. Solicitors can give conflicting advice. I've been in a similar situation. I can understand the anxiety when you're not even getting to see your child. Ultimately SS would see it as the Mother's responsibility to ensure the child's safety. And yes they just go round, don't see anything and close the case. The problem with that system is they only do anything if there is immediate risk of harm - and if they don't see anything they decide there isn't.

It is a dilemma though because morally you should raise the issue and risk and for your own integrity. But yes it could skew the court process more if you're seen to be making allegations. This is a problem with the court process.

However Chi's suggestion of setting something out like that, after the Cafcass report is also good. But - Cafcass also sometimes turn round and say - so if you're really concerned, why didn't you report to social services? Oh you did - and they closed the case - then Cafcass would not be interested any more and you're just seen to have made allegations and they will think it is point scoring.

What you could do though, is what Chi suggested in writing, but send it to social services, not Cafcass. An ex social worker once said to me - if you keep putting things in writing to social services, then after five times, they have to investigate.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I feel a responsibility to my daughter to make sure she is safe. Deep down, I know my ex is taking care of her, it just plays on your mind I guess - I hope she isn't being left with the uncle, etc.

I got my daughters health records yesterday from the doctors, which made me feel awful, because she has been ill recently, 2 weeks of Diarrhea, cried all day one day, tests done, nothing found, so likely viral. And another one saying she was limping, bruise on her ankle, went to hospital for an X-Ray, all ok. Nothing else after that. So I just hope she's ok. But as a dad you feel helpless, I just want to be with her, to comfort her, and to know for certain she's ok.
 
That feeling of helplessness is awful I know. The sad fact is, that because your ex has made allegations about you, no one is likely to take you seriously. My ex was a master at this kind of thing. Every time she did something really bad, she immediately made allegations about me. Attack as a form of defence - deflection. Meaning anything I raised concerns about would be seen as retaliation. The difference was I was still seeing my son regularly so could talk to him and advise him to talk to school if there was an issue and I wasn't there (school are obliged to get social services involved and then the referral hasn't come directly from you).

How old is your child again? I'm just wondering if you could see the GP and explain the situation that you are unable to see your daughter while a court case is going on to resolve that, but wonder if they can organise for a health visitor to go and do checks regularly as you have concerns about the living situation and other members of the family.
 
Ash said:
That feeling of helplessness is awful I know. The sad fact is, that because your ex has made allegations about you, no one is likely to take you seriously. My ex was a master at this kind of thing. Every time she did something really bad, she immediately made allegations about me. Attack as a form of defence - deflection. Meaning anything I raised concerns about would be seen as retaliation. The difference was I was still seeing my son regularly so could talk to him and advise him to talk to school if there was an issue and I wasn't there (school are obliged to get social services involved and then the referral hasn't come directly from you).

How old is your child again? I'm just wondering if you could see the GP and explain the situation that you are unable to see your daughter while a court case is going on to resolve that, but wonder if they can organise for a health visitor to go and do checks regularly as you have concerns about the living situation and other members of the family.
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She is 23 months on the 15th. I did go to the doctors a few days age and raised concerns while I got her health record and a letter for myself, they have made a few people aware and to keep a watch out. I like the idea of a health visitor to check up on things to make sure everything is ok.

I've also had this regarding my Position Statement,

The main part of your statement should focus on what you actually want the Court to Order. That is around the detailed arrangements for the time that your daughter is in your care and how handovers are achieved. What you write needs to answer all of the following points about when your daughter is with you:

  • What days
  • What times
  • who picks up / drops off
  • Location of handovers
  • Holiday and special days of contact
  • Arrangements for these handovers etc when your daughter starts school etc
  • ANYTHING else that you want
If the proposal is not in your statement then you will NOT being seeing your daughter on those occasions eg Xmas / birthdays etc etc.

Only being 2 pages maximum, I'm going to struggle to put everything in, especially being double-lined. Any advice, tips, examples, of what I should include?
 
This is something we help with - position statements, so it could get confusing if you're getting advice from two different sources :) But by and large I'd agree with that but go a bit further.

It's not just about asking for what you want - it's an opportunity to update the court on what has happened since you applied, and is effectively a note to the Judge - an opportunity to be heard in advance of the hearing. The bit at the end would be asking for what you want in a final order (not in detail at this stage, you can do that in a final statement) and also asking for an interim order.

So for example at this stage you might say you're asking the court to make an order for (just an example) every other week end and a midweek overnight, some time at Christmas and two weeks holiday with each parent a year until child starts school and then half the school holidays.

ie it doesn't need to be too specific at this stage because you can set it out in detail in a final statement (or attach a draft order with everything you want in). This also leaves more room to say what you want to say.
 
When that advice says if these are not in your statement, maybe they think you're doing a final statement. If you have the space in a PS then it does no harm to set out a more defined arrangement at this stage.
 
winger said:
She is 23 months on the 15th. I did go to the doctors a few days age and raised concerns while I got her health record and a letter for myself, they have made a few people aware and to keep a watch out. I like the idea of a health visitor to check up on things to make sure everything is ok.

I've also had this regarding my Position Statement,

The main part of your statement should focus on what you actually want the Court to Order. That is around the detailed arrangements for the time that your daughter is in your care and how handovers are achieved. What you write needs to answer all of the following points about when your daughter is with you:

  • What days
  • What times
  • who picks up / drops off
  • Location of handovers
  • Holiday and special days of contact
  • Arrangements for these handovers etc when your daughter starts school etc
  • ANYTHING else that you want
If the proposal is not in your statement then you will NOT being seeing your daughter on those occasions eg Xmas / birthdays etc etc.

Only being 2 pages maximum, I'm going to struggle to put everything in, especially being double-lined. Any advice, tips, examples, of what I should include?
Click to expand...

Really simple tips, sorry if this stuff is obvious.

Use the Header on word to put all of the necessary information. I mean case number, hearing date, names of parties... The info will appear on both pages and you'll save lots of space. If you really, really struggle, you can set margins to narrow. But try to get it done with normal margins first. Saving a line can be really important. If you have a few stray words going onto the next line at the end of a section. Look over the whole section to see if any sentence can be shortened. Expressing things in the simplest form helps readability and concision.

When you are deciding what to include, don't write a long draft and try to shorten it. Work out your purpose. Work out the titles. Give an amount of space to each title. Write something that serves your purpose in the space you have and improve it from there. If you have to, use an appendix or two, e.g. model schedule in the form of a colour coded calendar...

An accurate, comprehensive, and beautifully written statement is no use if it is not read. If it is not short, clear, and punchy, it will not be read.
 
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